Things I Have Learned on Listowners About Mailman
Things Learned on the Listowners Mailing List about Mailman
1.You can continue to send messages to the list using the e-mail address or you can drop the –L and send to . Eventually the –L will be phased out.
As lists migrate over from SmartList to Mailman the list names change to remove the -L or -D. Either version will work with the exception that someone who wants to subscribe to a list in digest mode must still wend the request to:
2.You can no longer sub to both DIGEST and LIST using the same email address. If you desire to receive both list and digest modes then use another email address to sub to digest.
3.Mailman, unlike SmartList, has a SENDER header that is the listname-bounces address and some email clients misread this header and show it as the FROM header. This is mostly a problem related to Outlook Express and Outlook.
4.Messages to the list still need to be sent in plain text.
5.In the case of the LISTNAME-REQUEST part of the address (for subbing & unsubbing), the case does NOT matter. For example, it doesn't matter whether when you send the SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE command to if you type the first section of the address in caps or lowercase.
6.When sending the subscribe or unsubscribe command, it MUST be included in the SUBJECT line as opposed to SmartList (at first) HAD to be in the BODY of the message. In other words, the subscribe and/or unsubscribe command(s) must be in the subject line. It can exist in the body of the message as well.
7. You can only send to 9 RootsWeb Lists with the same message. [This is more for List Admins but I have seen some people include RootsWeb lists along with individuals in sending email change notices.]
8.If your posted message is appearing in the list's archives, yet you have not received them, you don't need to re-subscribe. You're still on the subscriber list. Since the sending address has changed (migrated lists come from and not anymore), there could be a few reasons you're not receiving mail from the list:
a) If you filter mail by the list's address, it could be going to a bulk mail or spam folder because the address has changed.
b) Your spam filters could be catching the mail and sending it to your spam or bulk mail filter.
c) Mail delivery is delayed, either at your ISP's mail hub or at RootsWeb's.
d) Your list mail is bouncing for whatever reason.
e) Your subscription was transferred over into digest mode - this has happened to various lists during migration.
As a first step, Marie () recommends checking in with your list's administrator for him/her to check your subscription status.
9.Sending the word “subscribe” in the Subject line to will get you the list mode. Sending the same to will get you the digest version.
10.The subscriber who wants MIME will have to send an email to to request that the List Admin switch the digest subscription to MIME. The tasks for the List Admin per Joan Young on [LO] are:
a) go to your list admin page and select Membership Management.
b) find the digest subscriber who wants the format changed to MIME.
c) You should see a check mark in the boxes beside the subscriber's address in the boxes marked DIGEST and PLAIN. Uncheck the box that says PLAIN but leave the check mark in the DIGEST box.
d) click the box at the bottom of the page to submit the change.
This will change that one person over to MIME digests while allowing the list default for digest format to remain at plain text as it should.
11.The unsubscribe tagline appears on every message distributed via a list (automatically set by mailman) with instructions.
12.What is the difference between “MIME” and “Plain” digests? Plain digests are sent to users with all posts listed in one long email. For most subscribers, MIME digests will appear with all posts as individual attachments. The default digest delivery is Plain.
13.Mailman will not deliver a message to a list if it originates as a blind carbon copy (bcc).
14.The gateway, better spam filtering, teaching mailman how to
re-direct and process misdirected sub and un-sub requests--these are all going to be done as soon as humanly possible per Joan Young.
15.Mailman will allow the Plain Text part of a HTML message to go to the list. Unfortunately it checks the size of the whole message including all the HTML code and not just the Plain Text part. A one line reply (one line of text and a two word, two line signature) is known to have been rejected because it was over the 15K limit on a list.
16.Attachments are stripped from list messages and always have been, both before and after the migration to Mailman. They are allowed on message boards and have been for some time. A board user can upload image files and attach them to their messages. When such a message is gatewayed to the corresponding list it will post to the list with the attachment stripped. That hasn't changed with the switch to Mailman. For List Admins, if it's a gatewayed message you can safely release it from your pending requests to post to the mailing list. The attachment will be removed before it posts. Mailman doesn't strip HTML and attachments until after an admin approves a post.
17.Adding to your lists' accept
list isn't necessary [after Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:37:56 -0600] and, because of the way the code is set up, it will prevent the board/list gateway from working properly. If you currently have the gc-gateway address on your "accept" list, and your list is gatewayed to a board, please make sure to remove it.
18.Uncaught bounces indicate that the list software cannot figure out what to do with the bounces--so these won't result in the problem addresses being unsubbed--they require manual action on your part. When someone is unsubbed due to bounces you receive two notices--the one just says the address was unsubbed (but doesn't indicate why) and the second one tells you that the account was "disabled" because of bounces and includes a copy of the final bounce.
19.How you go about removing a post from the list archives depends upon whether or not YOU posted the message you want removed. You can remove a post YOU made to a list by going to the archives and finding the post in the archives and copying the URL where you find the post to be removed.
Next go to the removal form here: and paste in the URL of the message to be removed into the box on this page. Click to submit the request.
This action triggers a confirmation email to the address of the poster of the message who must then click the link in the message to complete the removal process. That is why only the poster can complete the removal process on their own.
If you have a message that someone else posted that absolutely needs to be removed--bad spam or personal attack, etc. (some really good reason) then you can initiate the removal process as noted above but you need to notify the RootsWeb HelpDesk that they will need to complete the removal process manually. Contact the HelpDesk at: per Joan on 18 July 2007.
20.ISearch (listsearches) hasn't been updated since the lists were migrated over to MailMan [Fall, 2006] and has been discontinued. The list archives are now searchable via archiver search:
21.To perform a search in a specific mailing list, start by clicking on the URL directly above. Then click the Advanced Search tab and in the box for list to be searched type in the listname such as mckay-elkenny -- don't forget to also type in a keyword or surname to be searched or you will end up with all of the messages ever posted to the list. Type in 2007, 2006 or whatever year you want to search in the Date field. You can also search a single day or month if you like-- 10 Jun 2005 or Jun 2005 for example. You can search ALL lists or only one, for posts by a specific author or anyone's posts. You can search the message body or the subject line -- whatever you want.
22. If the email address of the List Admin used when posting a message is still valid you can remove an archived message easily yourself. Find the post in the list archives: . Copy the URL where you find the post and then go here:
and paste in the URL of the
message to be removed in the box on the removal request form.
Click the button to submit the request and you, as the poster, will receive a confirmation email. Click the link in the email to complete the removal process.
If the email address of the List Admin used when posting the message is no longer working, then after submitting the request contact the RootsWeb HelpDesk and ask them to complete the removal process for you.
23. Procedure to get something deleted from the archives: First find the commercial post in the list archives and copy the URL where you find it. Then go here: Paste the URL of the post to be removed into the form and click the button to submit the request. Next contact the HelpDesk and let them know what you have done and why and request that they complete the removal process for you.
24. Why do blank messages come through for some AOl users? AOL 5.0 users cannot send mail to RootsWeb lists without the mail coming through blank. The cause is that AOL 5.0 is plain text only (and cannot handle HTML) which means that when AOL adds their ad footer it is added in a different manner than the later versions of AOL email that can handle HTML. RootsWeb attempted as a courtesy to create a work-around for this problem but it didn't work. The problam is really an AOL created problem and only those using the really old AOL 5.0 and earlier are affected by this issue. The answer is that they need to upgrade to 6.0 or later (Mac 9 users and prior cannot do that as there is no later version for their older Mac system). The only alternative to upgrading is for AOL 5.0 users to use a free web-based email client for their lists--Hotmail, Yahoo, gmail, etc.
25. Re: [LO] subscribers who use EarthLink spamBlocker
1. You are not required to "verify yourself" to communicate with any subscriber using any form of spam blocker. RootsWeb supports your right to simply unsubscribe them. It's their responsibility, if they want to know why, to find a way to accept email from you with no specific actions on your part being required.
2. Should you choose to communicate with them, you need simply tell them that using such spamblocking on an email address used to subscribe to list mail is not permitted; it's not appropriate for them to email (automatically or otherwise) everyone who posts to the list demanding that they "verify/register/whatever themselves" for that person to receive email.
We (RW staff, volunteers and fellow users) understand the desire to block spam and support efforts to do so, but NOT when it takes the form (as this does) of "**I** do not want spam, so I require **you** to do the work to see I don't get any."
Feel free to quote any of that to your user that you wish to.
--pig
26. Who gave the List Admin the right to make the rules?
Tell ‘em RootsWeb and moderate the individuals giving you guff, immediately. Hopefully that will let you bypass having to moderate the whole list. Per Pig of Listowner’s List.
Don your fireproof flack jacket and combat boots! YOU are the List Admin. Do NOT reply to such flames on list. Shut the list down and allow through any appropriate posts. Put the offenders on moderate until you can ascertain they will behave. You can tell the list that the list is under moderation until folks have a chance to calm down and that this is not done under any sense of censorship, but rather to maintain the subscribers' peaceful enjoyment of the list and keep it on topic.
Yes, it is appropriate to tell them to address their "administrative" questions to the Admin OFF LIST at your (listname) address. You may also want to state, for the record, that although they may not see any action from you on the list, that does not mean you are not addressing issues. That Administrative matters are, for the most part, handled behind the scenes so as not to interfere with the flow of the list.
It may take a while, and those of us that have been called various names, including "List Nazi" understand the frustration of a list gone wild. However, things will simmer down. They will find that unless they behave, they will have to face the music. Pig has gratiously allowed us to use the VLF on our lists that she uses on this one. :) My subscribers appreciate the humor in it too. I also have a wet noodle that I drag out from time to time. It may be scarier. lol
My viewpoint is, that when things turn ugly, moderate first, consider later. You then retain control of the list and can quell flames much more swiftly. From Lauren Boyd.
I don't agree that a flame should be allowed to run its course. In my opinion (based on 15+ years of managing boards and lists), the first flaming message should get the poster a private email telling them they've been put on moderated status. And a message should be sent to the list to the effect that the such messages will not be permitted and could result in a poster being banned from the list.
The listadmin sets the tone of the list by what they permit. If a list is subject to repeated disruption, your good subscribers get driven away (even if they don't unsub, the more reticent ones become too intimidated to post) and the troublemakers come to dominate the list. Per Diana
It is not in the best interest of the list subscribers or the list to allow disruption of the flow of the list and we do have guidelines in this area.
Problem Solving:
List Conflicts
Problems or disputes may arise between different subscribers on a list, or between the administrator and a subscriber. As a rule, RootsWeb does not get involved in these disputes. Bringing the list back on focus as quickly as possible will be most effective and least traumatic for everyone.
Conflicts between Subscribers
The following steps are generally helpful to resolve conflicts between subscribers on a list. As the list administrator, your role is to keep the list focus on its topic.
Post a message to the list stating the topic (conflict) is no longer acceptable for list discussions. Clearly state you are sending the message as the list administrator and not as a subscriber.
Repost any existing list guidelines that clarify why you are asking the discussion be stopped. For example, if your list does not allow off-topic discussions, and the conflict stems from someone violating that guideline, then restating the rules for the list will be a neutral way to resolve the issue.
Write to the subscribers involved in the conflict and privately reaffirm the subject is closed on the list. Try to remain neutral; help them understand this isn't personal, but is for the good of the list. You may want to offer them other options. For example: pursuing the discussion privately if they want to continue it, temporarily unsubscribing from the list until things have calmed down, or subscribing to an alternative list instead.
Depending on the severity of the conflict, you may want to tell those involved (or the entire list) what the consequences are for continuing to disrupt the list. It may run the gauntlet from temporarily moderating their posts to the list, to unsubscribing their address and permanently blocking the address from posting to the list. Occasionally a subscriber may report that another subscriber is being abusive in private e-mails. Remind them neither you or RootsWeb can control what is sent privately between individuals. They should report the alleged abuse to their ISP (service provider) and the ISP of the person sending them.
Problem Solving:
Conflicts Between Administrators and Subscribers
The following steps are generally helpful to resolve conflicts between administrators and subscribers. This type of conflict is often the result of a simple misunderstanding, especially if the subscriber has just started to use mailing lists as a resource.
If the conflict is occurring on the list, write to the list and let them know you will be resolving it privately. Since some may interpret that as biased, explain the goal is to enable the list to stay focused on its topic.