LFC SUPPORTERS’ COMMITTEE MEETING #1430 NOVEMBER 2014
MINUTES OF THE 14TH MEETING BETWEEN THE SUPPORTERS’ COMMITTEE AND LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB ON 30 NOVEMBER 2014 AT ANFIELD.
Representing the LFC Supporters’ Committee: Paul Amann (PA), LGBT Supporters; Sam Armstrong (SA), Female Fans; Anna Burgess (AB), Away Fans; Karen Gill (KG), Honorary President; Roy Heaney (RH), Non Season Ticket Holders & Official Members; Bob Humphries (BH), Chair and Season Ticket Holders & Hospitality Fans; Yunus Lunat, BAME Fans; Katie Price (KP), Disabled Fans; Matthew Selby (MS), International Fans (East). Representing Liverpool Football Club: Ian Ayre (IA), Chief Executive; Susan Black (SB), Communications Director; Gill Derbyshire (GD), Head of Customer Service; Phil Dutton (PD), Head of Ticketing and Hospitality; Billy Hogan (BH), Chief Commercial Officer, Michelle Kirk (MK), Equality and Inclusion Advisor; Yonit Levy-Sharabi (YLS), Customer Experience Manager; Andrew Parkinson (AP), Operations Director; Scott Richardson (SR), Head of CRM. Facilitator: William Montgomery (WM)
- Welcome and introductions:
1.1.WM welcomed all present including Yunus Lunat and Katie Price who were recently elected to represent Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Fans (BAME) and Disabled Supporters respectively.
1.2.BH apologised for Nausherwan Effandi, Laura Woodcock, Damien Moore and James Benson.
1.3.BH continued by reminding all present that this meeting would discuss pricing structures. He advised that the Committee held a Fan Forum before the game against Stoke City the previous day. He said that it was well attended by a mixture of supporter groups and individual fans who all expressed their opinions quite strongly. In addition to the questions submitted to the Club in advance of the meeting, the Fan Forum generated additional questions, which will also be tabled during the meeting. He stated that Fan Forums held on a match day appeared to be better attended, with more than 100 fans attending the one the day before.
1.4.IA opened with offering apologies on behalf of the owners for being unable to attend the meeting on account of the preparations for the start of the Red Sox season. It is hoped that they will be represented at the next meeting. He continued by saying that the Club is grateful to the fans for sticking with the team during what has been a difficult start to the season. There is still a great deal of optimism around the Club, team and fan base. We are a very special club and this is reflected in the levels of support during difficult times.
1.5.AP gave an update on the redevelopment of the Main Stand, the details of which are embargoed until Thursday, 4 December 2014.
- Matters arising from the previous meeting:
2.1.This item was not covered on account of moving straight to the main topic for discussion.
- Discussion on pricing structures:
3.1.BH began the discussion by asking the Club to reciprocate the special bond that we are proud to have and want to continue to have. There is a bond between the supporters and the Club and there is much to be proud of. It has been mentioned in previous meetings about how appreciative the team and manager are of the support they receive from the fans.
3.2.BH said that it was at this point in the meeting that he hoped the Club would respond to the issues raised in his email that he sent to the Club in advance of this meeting and that it was particularly disappointing that the owners are not present.
3.3.IA responded by saying that from the owner’s perspective there is nothing I ever say or do that is not ultimately coming from them. I’m merely an employee of the football club and when I speak, I speak on behalf of them. We don’t make major decisions, whether this ticketing, buying players or building stadiums without their input.
3.4.BH acknowledged what was said, but stated that it is the perception of supporters that the owners are distant on account of not attending these meetings. It is important that the questions raised through the Committee are being heard at the highest level.
3.5.IA said that ticket pricing is always going to be a key subject for discussion at these meetings. One of the things the Club has tried to implement since the formation of this Committee is to try and listen to what the core issue are. Everyone will always want cheaper tickets, and the Club recognises this.
3.6.IA continued by saying what the Club has tried to do is carve out the core opportunities, such as making a number of tickets available at affordable prices and making a number of tickets available to younger fans amongst other initiatives.
3.7.PD said that, since FSG assumed ownership of the Club, season ticket prices have, on average, increased by less than inflation. John Henry was keen at the time of taking ownership to stretch the prices from the previous two to the current six tiers. The current cheapest seat for a Premier League game is £37, which is cheaper than it was four years ago when FSG arrived. Match day prices have, on average, increased by just ahead of inflation.
3.8.PD continued by saying that the Club has repeatedly said that once we gain certainty around the redevelopment of the stadium that would be the time to take a closer look at the current price points and determine if these can be stretched further. We won’t be able to please everyone, but over the next 18 months we will endeavour to create a solution that satisfies the needs of most fans. We recognise that some people will be willing to pay more to attend one or two games a season but, equally, we need a solution that encourages more local fans to attend games.
3.9.PD also said that in recent seasons up to 15% of available adult tickets have been priced at £30 our less for all games at Anfield, including cup games. This equates to 100,000+ tickets being sold for less than £30 each. For junior tickets, the Club has been averaging 27,000/28,000 per season. In addition, this season the Club has introduced the concept of young adult cup game tickets as well, which has benefited around 10,000 fans. Whether or not this can be introduced to Premier League games should form part of a wider discussion.
3.10.BH said that a recent Premier League survey revealed that LFC has the second most expensive cheapest seat, the third most expensive cheapest season ticket; all set against a £5.2bn television deal and a £7m windfall in October due to Champions’ League qualification.
3.11.BH continued by saying that the Vice Chairman of Swansea City had recently said that he would like to cut huge amounts from the cost of ticket prices for City fans and believes that other clubs could do the same due to the television deal.
3.12.BH continued by saying that on the back of the above announcement, recent analysis was found to reveal that salaries in the northwest have fallen by around £42 per week in real terms between 2010 and 2013, representing a reduction of around 8%.
3.13.BH continued by recognising that the Club is listening and has made vast improvements in several areas, including the availability of tickets for 17 to 21 year-olds. We have them in cup games, but would like to see them in league games also. What fans can’t seem to understand is where the Club is going with this issue. There doesn’t seem to be a plan or structure in place to address the issue of ticket pricing. What we are asking for is for Liverpool FC to lead the way and develop its own model based on the needs of its own supporters.
3.14.BH continued by saying that during the Fan Forum on 29/11, it was announced that the flags visible on the Kop are going to disappear. The fans responsible have got together and decided to no longer wave the flags in protest of rising ticket prices. He continued by saying that it is a shame that these fans have needed to resort to this measure, which will only impact on the match day experience for all. It is the Committee’s responsibility to reflect this strength of feeling in the hope that the Club will address the issue.
3.15.AB offered a couple of real-world examples of how some fans have been affected by the ever-increasing cost of tickets. A single parent with two children used to attend every home game as a season ticket holder, but has now surrendered her season ticket on account of affordability. She now takes her children to Widnes Rugby League where she can take herself and her two children for less than it cost herself to attend Anfield. The season ticket at Widnes for herself and two children costs just £410 and her children can attend away games for free. These children are almost certainly going to grow up as rugby league fans as opposed to football fans.
3.16.AB offered another example were a fan organises a coach that travels to every away game. Although he travels on the same coach as his friends, he can’t afford to attend the games so watches from a local public house. There are groups of fans, both home and away, sat in pubs because they simply can’t afford to be in the grounds.
3.17.BH said that everyone has their own personal situation but the perception by the fans is that the introduction of the six-tier pricing policy has witnessed an overall increase and not resulted in cheaper tickets being made available. Everyone accepts that the Club needs to compete, but it appears that the commercial aspects of the business are being pursued at the expense of fans being able to attend games.
3.18.BH continued by saying that there appears to be no direct correlation to the club’s sponsors and ticket prices. It would be reasonable to assume that when the club strikes a deal with a partner that generated money, a percentage of this could be made available to reduce ticket prices for all. This may have the added benefit of fans engaging more with the sponsor’s brand or products.
3.19.BH continued by saying that the Club should be aware that there are campaigns by fans to actively disengage from some of the Club’s sponsors. Fans have written letters to sponsors asking them to intervene with the rising cost of tickets.
3.20.PA said that we’ve seen the power of publicity in recent weeks with the situation involving Ched Evans of Sheffield United were sponsors have actually been praised for making a stand on such matters of racism, sexism and homophobia that invoke such anger amongst fans. There is such a positive opportunity for LFC to lead on this matter and do things in a manner that financially benefits the Club and fans at the same time.
3.21.IA responded by saying that the Club is determined to look at ways to combat ticket pricing. The points raised so far are well made and I personally believe that there is an opportunity to find partners who want to contribute to helping reduce ticket prices. We should actively look at this area. The converse of this is that it is difficult for the business to go backwards. It is not as simple as cutting prices, as this is unsustainable in a business like Liverpool FC. Over 50% of the Club’s revenue is assigned to players’ wages. Just as people point to media revenues increasing, so do players’ wages and there associated costs.
3.22.IA said that during his seven years at the Club the previous losses have been substantial and, that whilst matters have improved, the Club needs to claw back these losses from the profits it is now making. The Club is now being run in a sustainable manner, but the loses must be recovered. That said, it is the Club’s responsibility to look at the opportunities presented and address them were possible, specifically the idea of identifying potential sponsors who can directly assist in reducing the price of tickets.
3.23.IA continued by saying that at numerous Premier League meetings, he had raised the issue that the Premier League has a responsibility to look at the issue of rising ticket prices.
3.24.IA continued by re-iterating the point raised at earlier Committee meetings that writing letters to sponsors produces the worst possible outcome. It’s actually counter-productive, as sponsors don’t need people attacking their business or brand.
3.25.BH said that the above is an example of the frustration that exists with may fans. The logic may not be soundly-based, but fans are starting to question the cost involved, such as player’s wages, agents fees etc. The frustration is evident and it’s on the increase.
3.26.BH continued by saying that the Committee likes to reflect a general view of fans’ issues, concerns and frustrations. However, fans that attend games have a separate set of issues when compared with non-game attending fans. The match-attending fan is only too aware if the challenges with falling wages and increasing ticket prices.
3.27.IA responded by saying that he is acutely aware of the cost issues affecting fans but, at the same time, the Club’s costs are rising and margins are being squeezed. That said, the Club is listening and making steps to address the issue, not least by the initiative to reduce the price of more than 100,000+ tickets in recent years. Everyone here at the Club is acutely aware that we need to find solutions to fix the problem. However, it has to be achieved recognising that the Club is a business that has costs, and these costs are rising. It’s not as simple as saying we will never put ticket prices up again, because the Club will have to do so. But the Club is committed to seek a workable solution that may result in driving the down the cost of some tickets.
3.28.BH responded by saying that he was disappointed to hear that the Club will not make a commitment not to increase ticket prices and seek solutions from other means to meet its rising costs. The Club needs to be more open-minded in how it approaches this challenge.
3.29.AB challenged as to whether the Club is a normal business, unlike others, it has fans at its heart and these fans are being priced out by the increases in ticket prices seen in recent years. It seem like the Club is operating a short-term policy in that it sells its overseas tours so local fans can emulate what happens at Anfield, and the Kop in particular, but with no flags on display and younger fans being priced out of the stadium, the Club will have a poor product to sell overseas in a matter of a few years time. The Club needs a strategy to keep local fans attending, and getting younger fans into the stadium.
3.30.AB said that one of the impressions that she gained from the Fan Forum was that local fans want to see a consultation take place that address how local fans can gain affordable access to the stadium, week in and week out. Local fans and fans groups are very frustrated with the situation and it’s not enough to simply expect them to attend a weekday cup game, with cheap seats for children as an alternative to a Saturday fixture when kids don’t have school the next day.
3.31.IA said the issue around getting kids into the stadium is not about pricing and more about availability. The Club wants more kids, and local kids in particular to attend games. But fans are fans wherever they are from and we can’t necessarily positively discriminate towards local fans in favour of fans from overseas.
3.32.BH said that the success of the Club has largely been achieved from having local support. The reason the Club has many thousands of supporters attempting to replicate the atmosphere of the Kop in clubs and bars around the world is because of the special relationship the Club has with local fans. The Club would be foolish to lose this local support, and it’s happening already.
3.33.PD said that of the 24,000 season ticket holders, 16,000 of them are registered at a Liverpool, or local, postal address. Consequently, the overwhelming majority of fans who attend regularly are from the local area.
3.34.IA said that if the Committee is saying the Club should treat local fans differently than everyone else by giving them access to more tickets then the Club will be prepared to look at this suggestion and implement it if possible. But the Club needs to know categorically that this is what the Committee is saying and that it is what the fans they represent want. However, he expressed his view that he felt that not all fans would support this approach.
3.35.AB said that one of the main frustrations with local fans is that, try as they may, they can’t get clear opportunities to attend games as an adult and child. You cannot buy a single child seat anywhere in the ground, but you can as an away fan. Fans want to attend as families with access to adult and child tickets that are appropriately and fairly priced.
3.36.BH, responding to an earlier comment, said that revenues driving partnerships takes the pressure off ticket pricing. If the Club is not generating the gains it needs on the partnership side of the business, then the percentage of revenue that the Club needs from ticketing is put under much more pressure. Diverting money from the partnership budget to the ticketing budget just means the partnership budget is down. All these matters need to be considered in the context of the overall budget the Club has set itself.