January 2008doc.: IEEE 802.11-08/0202r1

IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs

Minutes of the IEEE P802.11 Full Working Group
Date: 2008-01-14
Author(s):
Name / Company / Address / Phone / email
StephenMcCann / NokiaSiemens Networks Roke Manor / Old Salisbury Lane, Romsey, Hampshire, SO51 0ZN, UK / +44 1794 833341 /

IEEE 802.11 Plenary Meeting – Session #107

Howard Plaza Hotel, Taipei, Taiwan

January 14th-18th, 2008

IEEE 802 Wireless Opening Plenary, Monday 14th January 2008

(Note: these joint wireless meeting minutes are reproduced from 15-08-0031-00-0000-minutes-from-taipei-jan08.doc)

8:05 local time802.11, 802.15, 802.18, 802.20, 802.21, and 802.22 Chairs called the joint meeting to order.

Announcements:

  • Chair thanked the local IEEE chapter and MediaTek for sponsoring this conference. Thanks were also given to Kuor-Hsin Chang from Freescale for helping with arrangements.

Room attendance: 114

Straw Poll of new attendees: 2

IEEE patent policy

802.15 WG chair displayed and read the five slides explaining patent policy.

Chair asked participants to identify patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) and/or the holder of patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) that the participant believes may be essential for the use of that standard, there were no responses.

8:23Financial report by John Barr, (11-08-0089r0) (15-08-0032r0)

  • 11 Nov 07 balance was $136,876.51
  • 14 Jan 08 balance was $222,587.51
  • Domain name registration -$20.00
  • Funds in Face-to-Face Events account were $36,662 (Jan 08)
  • Meeting reserve funds of $259,230
  • Transfer of treasury account to IEEE designated bank
  • Taipei status:
  • 352 attendees registered
  • Net deficit estimated at $71,344

8:31Wireless announcements:

Wireless Network Updates by Rick Alfvin

  • Newton.events.ieee.org (docs and attendance links)
  • WPA2 is available

IMAT by Christina Sahr ()

  • To get an IEEE web account and follow directions
  • Enter activity profile in myProject
  • Register with IMAT
  • Uses IEEE web account
  • Register with IMAT once per week

Questions

  • What is url? Reply: Newton
  • What groups are using this system? WGs 11, 15, 18
  • Is there a five minute grace period? Yes
  • Each meeting needs affiliation to be entered
  • Harry will have additional information on document 59

8:43Review Interim meetings

  • 11-16 May: Hyatt Regency in Jacksonville, FLUSA
  • 7 - 12 Sept Hilton Waikoloa Village, Big Island
  • 18-23 January 09 – TBD
  • 10-15 May 2009 – Fairmont Queen Elizabeth, Montreal, CA

8:38Task Group Updates

  • 802.11 (299 voter, 23 potential, 21 nearly, 108 aspirant)

WNG: number of presentations

TGk: sponsor ballot comment resolution towards sponsor ballot recirc

TGn: comment resolution

TGp: comment resolution for letter ballot

TGr: in sponsor ballot

TGs: getting first letter ballot out

TGt: resolve comments

TGu: continuing comment resolution

TGv: letter ballot comment resolution

TGw: formed sponsor ballot pool, go to letter ballot before sponsor

TGy: resolve comments from letter ballot

TGz: (DLS) Harry Worstell will run group this week

VHT SG: working on PAR and 5C

VTS SG: working on PAR and 5c

IMT adhoc: WG coordination plan, Darwin will run this meeting

802.15(160 voters)

WNG: no presentations

TG3c: baseline proposal has been confirmed, drafting will start

TG4c: proposal has been accepted working with CWPAN

TG4d: hearing presentations from call for proposals

TG4e: first meeting as TG, define objectives and timeline

TG5: LB38 closes 23:00 Monday, comment resolution

TG6 (BAN): transitioning work from SG to TG

RFID IG: move process forward

TerraHz IG: looking for opportunities

VLC: four presentations this week

802.18(14 voters)

Review UK

  • digital dividend,
  • spectrum usage rights,

Review agenda for WRC-11

Complete preparations for WP5D meeting

802.20

Review and resolve sponsor ballot comments

Development of PARs for future projects of 802.20

802.21(71 voters)

Sponsor Ballot completed in Jan 2008 with 83% approval and 330 comments. Note: Since the first sponsor ballot did not achieve the necessary 75% to approve, the whole draft was available for comment during its recirculation

Two new SGs security signaling in handover, multi radio power conservation management

Goals for this week:

  • Complete SG comment resolution
  • Study group activities

802.22(60 voters)

  • goal is to complete draft of 1.0 this week
  • TG1.1 not meeting this session

9:12 joint meeting adjourned

IEEE 802.11Opening Plenary, Monday 14th January 2008

Presiding chair: StuartJ.Kerry (NXP Semiconductors) opened the meeting at 13:53 HTZ.

There are 299 voting members of IEEE 802.11

  1. Approve/modify joint opening agenda(11-07-2884r3)
  2. The only difference between r3 and r4 is a reallocation of slots for later in the week
  3. Following neither discussion nor dissent the agenda was approved by unanimous consent.
  4. November 2007 Minutes (11-07-2830r0)
  5. Review and approve joint minutes from theAtlanta, November 2007 meeting.
  6. Following neither discussion nor dissent these minutes were approved by unanimous consent.
  7. Attendance
  8. The chair then asked for those attending for the first time, 0 responded out of a total of 121people in the room.
  9. Attendance (together with affiliations) at this meeting is shown in AnnexA.
  10. Financials (see earlier slides from joint wireless meeting)
  11. There will be deficit of $60, 000 from this meeting.
  12. Policies and Procedures(11-07-0360r4)
  13. The WG secretary (Stephen McCann: Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH & Co KG) read out the P&Ps.
  14. There were no questions asked.
  15. Please check the IEEE 802.11 WG membership list which is now on the website.
  16. Attendance is required to obtain voting rights. Voting rights are only granted at plenaries.
  17. Patent Policy
  18. various slides were read out by the WG secretary
  19. Patent FAQ
  20. Please review these slides for all current procedures and information together with:
  21. Patent FAQ -
  22. LoA Form -
  23. Affiliation
  24. If you do not provide your affiliation then your rights can be withdrawn. Please see: for further information.
  25. Anti-Trust
  26. Please note the following anti-trust statements
  27. Ethics
  28. Please note the following ethics statements
  29. No questions about any of this.
  1. Call for essential Patents
  2. The chair called for essential patents and there were none.
  3. Interim Meetings
  4. Please see wireless opening plenary information above.
  5. Wireless Network Update
  6. Please see wireless opening plenary information above.
  7. P&P updates
  8. Since the vice chair is not present this week, please send all statements to the WG secretary.
  1. Voter Membership & Documentation (11-08-0058r0)
  2. vice-chair Harry Worstell (AT&T Labs Incorporated)
  3. There are currently 299voting members in IEEE 802.11
  4. Please note use the new IMAT attendance server at
  5. Document 11-08-0058r0 describes how to use this new system.
  6. Q: How do you get reciprocal rights for IEEE 802.18 and IEEE 802.19?
  7. A: This is now done automatically for you by the attendance server, although you do not actually see this happening.
  8. Chair: Note, we’re now been running the mentor documentation system for 1 year and its working quite well.
  9. Chair: This week your identity has changed, you no longer have the old ‘face-to-face’ ids. It’s now a new “SA pin number” from the myProject system.
  10. Q: There are problems with multiple accounts, within the myProject, which they are still working with.
  11. Please note that you have to see the external website to join the mailing lists.
  1. WG Opening Reports & Goals for the week

11.1.Publicity & Timelines

11.1.1.Please can all sub group chairs send updates to the secretary by Thursday morning

11.2.Technical Editor (no report)

11.2.1.Terry Cole is not here this week; Nancy Cam-Winget will replace him.

11.2.2.Regarding ANA, Terry has sent a message to all editors. He will answer emails about ANA requests.

11.3.WNG SC (11-08-0094r0)

11.3.1.T.K. Tan (GTC Semiconductor)

11.3.2.Possibly 2 presentations this week

11.4.TGk (11-08-0084r0)

11.4.1.Richard Paine (Boeing Company)

11.4.2.Now going into 3rdre-circ Sponsor Ballot this week.

11.5.TGmb

11.5.1.No meeting this week. There is currently 1 outstandinginterpretation request

11.6.TGn(11-08-0022r0)

11.6.1.Roughly 300 comments left this time.

11.7.TGp(11-08-0092r1)

11.7.1.Trying to go for new LB this week.

11.8.TGr (11-08-0181r0)

11.8.1.Not too much to do this week.

11.9.TGs(11-07-2933r2)

11.9.1.Comment resolution and hope to go to LB this week.

11.9.2.No editor, so if you wish to volunteer that would be useful.

11.10.TGT(11-08-0061r0)

11.10.1.Proceed with comment resolution

11.11.TGu(11-08-0076r0)

11.11.1.Comment resolution and liaison issues this week.

11.11.2.Also possible candidate for IEEE 802.11 liaison officer to 3GPP SA2

11.12.TGv(11-08-0011r0)

11.12.1.Comment resolution this week.

11.13.TGw (11-08-0091r2)

11.13.1.Meet to resolve comments from LB #117, which will be dealt with this week.

11.14.TGy (11-08-0080r0)

11.14.1.Currently in initial sponsor ballot.

11.15.TGz (11-08-0052r0)

11.15.1.Menzo is not here this week, so this group will be chaired by the vice-chair, Harry Worstell (AT&T Labs). Presentations this week.

11.16.VHT SG (11-08-0085r0)

11.16.1.Presentations on PAR and 5Criteria documents.

11.16.2.Please note that the Tourhosts paper schedule is wrong for VHT SG. Please look at the agenda graphic, 11-07-2884r3.

11.17.VTS SG (11-08-0074r0)

11.17.1.Presentations on PAR and 5Criteria documents.

11.18.IMT-A Ad Hoc (11-08-0023r0)

11.18.1.Reviewing status of IMT-A status this week. May have a joint meeting with IEEE 802.18 this week.

11.18.2.Darwin Engwer (Nortel Networks)

11.18.3.Preparing for upcoming ITU-R meetings.

  1. Any Other Business
  2. None
  3. Meeting recessed at 10:01 HZT.

Wednesday, 16 January 2008

IEEE 802.11 Mid Week Plenary

Presiding chair: StuartJ.Kerry (NXP Semiconductors) opened the meeting at 10:30 HTZ.

103people present.

  1. Approve/modify joint opening agenda(11-07-2884r4)
  2. TGy discussion added
  3. Following neither discussion nor dissent the agenda was approved by unanimous consent.
  4. Policies and procedures
  5. Please note that this meeting is still operating under Monday’s P&P rules.
  6. No questions about this.
  1. Call for Essential Patents
  2. Call for essential patents
  3. No items raised.
  1. CAC
  2. Reminder about 7.30pm meeting on Thursday
  1. Attendance Recording

17.1.Vice chair (Harry Worstell) A few glitches at the beginning, but it now seems to be ok. He would like to thank Christiana Sahr (IEEE) for her help with the system this week. Please raise comments and issues.

17.2.Please continue to use the new system.

  1. Other Announcements

18.1.Letter Ballots (LBs)

18.1.1.Please be careful with the IEEE 802.11 LBs. They are not all re-circulation LB and if you are not careful, you will loose you voting rights.

18.2.Affiliations

18.2.1.Please remember to complete your affiliations.

18.3.802.1/802.11 VTS Joint Meeting update

18.3.1.Joint meeting, 9am on January 31st 2008.

18.3.2.Please send an email to Ganesh if you are interested.

18.3.3.Chair: Please can you post this information to the IEEE 802.11 email reflector

  1. Liaisons

19.1.802.18 : Radio Regulatory Tag(18-08-0006r0)

19.1.1.Wi-FiAlliance is meeting in Prague at the end of February 2008 and they will be meeting with the EU regulators regarding DFS rules.

19.2.802.19 (11-08-0141r0)

19.2.1.802.19 have not met this week in Taipei.

19.3.802.21 (11-08-0152r0)

19.3.1.Please note that in March 2008, there will be tutorials on the new 802.21 study groups

19.3.2.Currently in sponsor ballot, now at 83% approval.

19.3.3.Will have an ad-hoc meeting in February 2008 and hope to complete their work in March 2008.

19.3.4.Issue with TGu document reference within the IEEE 802.21 document, as the TGu document is currently only in draft LB stage. Some of the text may have to be moved to an informative annex. Any questions about this should be forwarded to the TGu chair, Stephen McCann.

19.3.5.Also working with 3GPP, IETF MIPSHOP and the ITU-R (IMT-A)

19.3.6.Q: As DVB (Digital Video Broadcast) is a broadcast technology, why is this a candidate for handover?

19.3.7.A: There is a DVB-RCT variant, which means it has a return channel terrestrial (RCT) and hence it’s a suitable candidate for handover.

19.4.BluetoothSIG

19.4.1.No response, 2ndcall

19.4.2.At the next call, this will be removed.

19.5.Wi-Fi Alliance (11-08-0149r0)

19.5.1.Andrew Myles (Wi-Fi Alliance Chair)

19.5.2.This presentation summarizes activities within 2007 and shows how the industry is still growing, together with the introduction of the IEEE 802.11n D2.0 certification.

19.5.3.Wi-Fi is still growing, especially regarding the brand name recognition amongst the general public.

19.5.4.In the near future Wi-Fi will start to look at 11k and 11r, together with VHT and 11v.

19.6.IETF(11-08-0144r0)

19.7.HOKEY (handover keying) looking at EAP re-authentication. Comments from 802.11 are welcome

19.8.CAPWAP:Current no outstanding issues with them

19.9.EMU:Exchanging issues with TGu

19.10.RADEXT:RADIUS extension group

19.11.ECRIT:Next SDO workshop is scheduled for April 2008.

19.12.Next IETF meeting March 2008 in Philadelphia

19.13.ISO JTC1/SC 6

19.13.1.A ballot closed 2 months ago about collaboration between IEEE 802.11 and these groups. There was a plan to have a comment resolution meeting in London. However IEEE HQ and JTC1 initially wanted to cancel this, but due to various country objections the meeting will now continue.

19.13.2.Q: I understand that IEEE forgot to ask the IEEE stakeholders about this.

19.13.3.A: I’m not sure, as I have not seen any correspondence on this.

19.14.TIA

19.14.1.3rd call, so therefore removed.

  1. New Business

20.1.TGy Current Progress Discussion (11-08-0123r0)

20.1.1.Currently in the middle of a sponsor ballot, so that the timeline is currently in flux.

20.1.2.There should be a draft D8.0 which will be re-circulated at some point.

20.1.3.They wanted to schedule an ad hoc in February, but this does not give the required 30 days notice. Hence their motion to do this is out of order.

20.1.4.Additionally the motion about the formation of the comment resolution committee is also out of order.

20.1.5.Hence these motions will not be brought forward into this WG.

20.1.6.TGy has finished the IEEE 802.11 LB process and now start the Sponsor Ballot (SB) process. After consulting the P&Ps, it has been determined that the SB can be a lot faster than the IEEE 802.11 LB process. Basically this is because alot of progress can be made in teleconferences. Hence by March 2008, a lot of work will have been done and will be able to go to conditional approval. Indeed at every subsequent plenary (until the work is complete), TGy will ask for conditional approval.

20.1.7.The WG chair and TGy chair believe that this is a more efficient process and should speed things up at the sponsor ballot stage.

  1. Joint Interchange: Co-existence issues for single channel wireless mesh (11-08-0075r0)

21.1.This presentation is based on some discussions that have come out of IEEE 802.11s.

21.2.Q: I did not realize that a single channel mesh could have such a problem. So, therefore what is the potential of this being actually deployed?

21.3.A: This is a serious problem, if you don’t face it. A single channel mesh can be fixed with a simple solution. For example a residential mesh would be a good scenario and therefore it could be a very popular system.

21.4.Q: So, in the consumer space, this could be a problem.

21.5.Q: Regarding the express reservation mechanism, it looks similar to the reservation system which is in the base standard.

21.6.A: No, it is different. It does not resemble RTS. This system does not send any new frames, whereas with RTS you have to. In slow channels, you do get a gain with RTS, but with fast channels like 11a and 11g, this does not work. It is highly dependant upon the size of frame that you use.

21.7.Straw poll:

21.8.There can be serious co-existence issues between wireless MESH and nearby WLANs operating on the same channel, which must be addressed.

21.9.Yes: 42

21.10.No: 0

21.11.I would like to invite you along to the next TGs session to take this further.

  1. Any Other Business

22.1.None

22.2.Meeting recessed at 12:02 HZT

Friday, 18th January 2008

IEEE 802.11 Closing Plenary

Call to order at 08:08 HTZ by Stuart J. Kerry (NXP Semiconductors). Late start due to audio visual problems.

  1. Announcements
  2. 95 people in the room.
  1. Agenda(11-07-2884r4)
  2. Chair explained the changes from r4, which is basically changing the order of TGs and TGv.
  3. No objection to approving the revised agenda.
  1. Patents
  2. Please note that this meeting is still operating under Monday’s IEEE P&P rules
  3. Call for Essential Patents.
  4. No items raised.
  1. Announcements

26.1.Chair’s reports

26.1.1.Please be aware of the Chair’s schedule for the WG in documents 11-08-2884r4 and 11-08-0180r0

26.2.LB voting

26.2.1.Please remember that you must vote on all working group letter ballots, not jut the TG/SG group you are working in.

26.3.VTS Joint Meeting

26.3.1.IEEE 802.1 will have a joint meeting with IEEE 802.11 VTS to discuss this activity. The venue is Los Gatos, CA, USA.

  1. P&P

27.1.No updates received this time.

27.2.Please email Al Petrick (Vice-chair) if anyone has any comments.

  1. Attendance Server
  2. Vice-chair: We have now been using the new document server for 1 year and it appears to be ok.
  3. The new attendance server appears to be working very well indeed, although there were a couple of issues last Monday. Christiana Sahr from IEEE did an excellent job and her attendance here this week, was greatly appreciated.
  4. Please remember to check your affiliation on the system, as some of them have not been filled out correctly.
  1. WG Reports

29.1.Publicity

29.1.1.Nothing this week.

29.2.Timelines

29.2.1.The secretary presented the updated timeline chart, which was updated on Thursday evening and is now live on the website. There are three minor changes this meeting.

29.3.Technical editor (11-08-0179r1)

29.3.1.Twoeditorial positions are open, TGs and TGz. If you wish to volunteer for this, please make yourself known to the WG chair or vice-chairs.

  1. Session Location

30.1.Straw Poll: Do you like this location and would want to come back

30.2.For: majority of those present, Against: 10

  1. WG Committee Reports

31.1.WNG SC (11-08-0201r1)

31.1.1.2 presentations this week

31.1.2.No questions for WNG

31.1.3.Note: Please use the new templates for presentations. The IEEE disclaimer should be removed

31.2.TGk (11-08-0196r0)

31.2.1.Re-circulation ballot comment resolution no.3, which does not finish until today 13:00 local time.

31.2.2.This week was basically preparing for the next re-circulation.

31.2.3.No questions for TGk

31.3.TGn (11-08-0171r0)

31.3.1.In comment resolution this week, as a series of ad hoc groups.

31.3.2.Together with last week’s ad hoc and this week’s work, a lot of comments have been resolved.

31.3.3.There are 2 comments regarding missing LoAs from a certain company involved within TGn. The current resolution is that this issue has been forwarded to PatCom and is awaiting a reply. Hence it is felt that TGn has followed the correct procedure. Further guidance is now being awaited. But these 2 comments are not closed and cannot currently be dealt with.

31.3.4.Chair: As of 08:32, I have received an email from Paul Nikolich, which now explains some upcoming rule changes. Items 9, 10 and 17 refer to PatCom issues.