Vinsensius Jitiam;

Vinsensius Jitiam;

I :Ok, good evening.. what is your name?

V :My name is Jitiam.

I :Mr. Jitiam..

V :My full name is Vinsensius Jitiam

I :Vinsensius Jitiam?

V :Yes.

I :Let me introduce myself, I'm Tadius Lius, I'm from University of Tanjungpura, err.. educator in Law faculty, I come with my team to record the social life of the people in the border. if.. I want you to tell us, how your life from little, from you were born, until now. err.. you were born in this village r..?

V : I was born in this village. from my parents, they all were born here, but if we said about citizenship, we are part of.. we were actually part of Malaysian descent. because my parents were originated from cross the border, so.. at that time, my parents were chasing for a better life. but of course, most of it.. at that time, there was no control from the government, because the distance was further. well.. so we were moving and moving. At my parent's era in the past, we didn't know yet, which one was the border. where was the border between Indonesia and Malaysia, they didn't know. so.. after the independence of Indonesia, the they could say that we were Indonesian. It's actually like that. So, the development of our descendants life in the past, the life was very bad, especially the economy. We depended on crops for living. But the crops were only enough for daily consume. I mean being proceed for eat.. There was no sufficient amount left for tradings. But there were exchange (barter), we exchange goods, for example we exchange rice for meat, for fish..

I :When you were little, you also experienced that?

V :Yes.

I :You were still little, was there someone who told you that we were Indonesian, or in the past, we were Malaysia case..

V : Yes.

I :Where did you know that your descents were originated from Malaysia?

V :Because our parents usually told us that they.. the father of our father was born there.

I :Grandfather?

V :Yes, grandfather. So, they were born in Malaysia, so after they.. they separated to make a better living....

I :(Interrupted) Worked in the field..

V : Work in the field.. kept moving from place to place. so.. at that era, there was no such thing as the border.

I :Yes.. there was no...

V : There was no..

I :Country.

V :Country. It was like there was no country, which country was where, they didn't know. So, after there was.. after they created the border between Malaysia and Indonesia, because at that time the independence... the one who got independence earlier was us, Indonesia.

I :1945..

V :Yes, from that events, our parents, our grandparents. "Oh, we are Indonesian." But they were born in Malaysia.

I :Do you have feelings that actually you are Malaysian?

V : No. We still admit that we are NKRI (Unitary State of the Indonesian People).

I :Already Indonesian..

V :The Garuda is still in our heart, but only for our stomach which still come from Malaysia

I :What do you mean?

V : It's like thins, for example handcraft, for increasing the economy, the income of the household. So, handcrafts such as Bidai, Takin, if we promote it in our own region, Indonesia, so the goods.. it seems there is no place for accommodating them.

I :You mean the plait goods (barang anyaman)

V :Yes plait goods.

I :Products from here right?

V : Yes, because some of our family over there, because.. for example I still have my aunt in Malaysia, who still live. Well.. my mother's younger sister. Well, the have the accomodation for those goods. So, like it or not.... at that time there was no road, sir. We used Ambingan, we carried rice to sell it in Malaysia, to exchange it with other things/food like salt, kitchen materials. They all came from Malaysia.

I :Sembako (9 basic needs), right?

V : Yes, like sembako. So, indeed at that time, I still remember, when I was in 6th grade of elementary, I walked from Bridak here, went to Stas. 3 hours still didn't get there. it almost 6 hours that finally I could arrive in Malaysia. Only for that Sembako. That's why.. so.. at that time we used 2 currencies, because we also, our parents usually went shopping to Sambas, used Sampan (wooden small boat), which has (something, I'm not sure) in the back. We also got Rupiah, we also had Ringgit.

I :Which one was nearer? To go to Sambas or Stas?

V :To Stas.

I :To Stas right?

V : To Stas.

I :It's nearer?

V :It's nearer, If we went to Sambas, it might be 1,5 day that we could finally get there.

I :To stas it's only 3-4 hours right?

V : Yes, 3-4 hours we could arrive there. So perhaps, if we went to Stas at 12 at noon, perhaps we went home at night, arrived here.

I :You still have family who live there?

V : Yes, I still have. Still have, I can say we're still close.

I :How is your relationship with your family who live in Malaysia?

V :If we say the relationship, I can say it's close. so, eventhough we're close, we still have the boundary. We also can't say that we're Malaysian, no. We still say that we're Indonesian. But for the factor of food, there are something that's less.. well, less.. what is it.. less qualified. Less qualified, so that we want it or not, we look for it there. Like that.. The price is affordable, but the quality is high.

I :Ohh.. the quality of the goods is better?

V : Yes. The quality.

I :Over there?

V : Yes, over there

I :The price is also cheaper?

V : Cheaper. and then the distance is also near. Compared with..

I :(Interupt) What.. What is the example for the goods which are cheaper?

V :For example.. it's like.. Shoes, Clothes, they are cheaper there. and then basic needs are also cheaper there. and the quality is guaranteed. For example.. well.. if in the past, when I went there, when I was little. The packaging of the goods were neat. If here, in us, the packaging of the goods is careless (asal-asalan), it's like that. So, for all this time, the basic difference for me... for example there is already market in (He spoke too fast, can't get what he said), in Bengkayang as well. Just until now I finally see there is trade competition between Indonesia and Malaysia, with us, it's like that. Because, the quality of our goods has increased. it's like that. So, right now, we realize the existence of those goods, which they actually the same. They are the same. Even for all this time, right now, when we went to Indonesia, there are already a little stressed (penekanan) from the regulation. the nation regulation.

I :It's not free (leluasa) anymore?

V :Yes. It's not like in the past, if in the past, when I was in school, for a long holiday, when I was in Senior High, I ever worked in Malaysia for a month, to get money, to pay my tuition.

I :Oh.. tuition, right?

V :Yes. After 1 month, I go home, so.. for that, from what I see, our economy is very.. well.. I can say it's much lower. Just recently I can feel that, well.. it's better.. us. but it's still, as what I said earlier that, of course, if I saw from the aspect of the relation, perhaps because the relationship is getting tighter. But even it's getting tighter, there's still some boundaries between countries. There are country regulations, but the relationship.. what is it.. Sociology perhaps? between my family who live here and my family who live there, it can go well. But, for all this time, we have a country regulation which said, if we enter foreign country, we have to have legal documents. So, because of that, it's like that the citizen... well, the government bureaucracy, there is the regulation, sir. So, there are people who don't really understand, don't really know about these documents, so they go there with.. they go there illegally. So that's why we heard that there are people who get arrested, who get kicked out.

I :Because they go there without documents?

V :Yes, without documents. If we go there with legal documents, it's the same.. it's like there is no difference : "Well, you are foreigner, you are not allowed to enter", not, it's not like that. It's like that. If we go there without those documents..

I :But with those incident.. In the past, people used to be free to go in and out, but now they have to use documents, is there any disappointed feeling about that condition, or how?

V :No, no.. actually, we like it that way. But, in the border.. especially in Jagui Babang's PLB, it's now that open yet. Actually we.. let's say our side, especially Jagui babang, are really realized, eventhough our descents came from there, but most of us were born in Indonesia. So, we really have to obey the law of the government. Even though we have our closest family there, they are still recognized as Malaysian. So, about those documents, we actually really support that. It must.. well, if it can.. about our border gate, for me, if the region government must have commitment about what they've told or said in the television that the border gate will be opened, it should be built as soon. So that the citizen don't have to wait and wait, in the end they are disappointed. Because these documents are very important for us. If we..

I :(Interrupt) Now.. now there is an instituted which issued PLB..

V :PLB is limited, sir, it's very limited. If the validation of PLB is board, to Kuching... but PLB can't!

I :Oh.. Until where can we use PLB?

V : Until Bauk.

I :Until Bauk.. can't go until Kuching?

V : No, it can't sir. That's why..

I :So, what is your wish?

V :My wish is, hopefully our government can fight for the border gate in Jagui Babang. So that us, people in Jagui, can use legal document to go there safely, because we realize that we are Indonesian, sir.

I :Well.. in particular event, can you go there without any documents? For example there's family events and so son.

V :If.. for example family events, we can't go there without any documents. Except for Gawai, well, in that case, we can go without any documents, but that's for 1 day only, sir.

I :Oh, it's free to go?

V :Yes, If we go there for 2 days, we will get caught when we want to go home. it's like that. So, even though we are allowed to go there for 1 day, we supposed to bring document as well.

I :Without any documents? it's possible?

V :We must, we must as well, even though they said it's free to enter, well, if we go to our family's place, usually it's for 1-2 days, so we need to have a legal document.

I :Well, it's connected sir, you said that you still have family in Malaysia.

V : Yes.

I :Are there many of them now? Er... your family member there.

V : Yes, there are still many of them, sir.

I :Well, now you also see from the television, from the newspaper, there is.. it's in Jakarta.

V : Yeah.. yeah..

I :There is a little bit of distraction for the relation between Indonesia and Malaysia, and then it occurs the nationalism, right?

V : Yes.

I :Well it's not a war.

V : Yes.

I :But said that we wanted to fight (what??), if it's like that, later, how is the response of the people who live here?

V :If it's really like that, if the war has been decided, any type of war, we are still defend our region. We defend ourselves. It's like that. Do we really have to defend another people's country?

I :Well.. I mean..

V : It's like that right?

I :No, I mean, you.. you still.. well, for war, we have our own military.

V : Yes.

I :Don't you have this kind of thought? "Why should I fight with my family over there?"

V : This war is... this war is like we want to look for peace, sir. The peace which

I :No.. no.. so, it's not about us and Serawak, like the case in the past like (he said something, not clear), which gave rise to the nationalism amongIndonesian people in Jakarta. How is your thought for that case as you also have family in Malaysia.

V :Oh.. If it's about things like that, we.. well, as what I said before, the Garuda is still in our heart. We still defend our region, we still fight for our rights.

I :But the problem is not between us and Serawak right?

V : Yes.

I :It's only in (Tanjung?)

V : It's like this, it's like this! It's our country right?

I :Yes.

V :It's our country, we have to support it. We have to support it. That's why don't let the Garuda vanish from our heart. The Garuda is still in our heart, even though our stomach is still in the middle, it's fine.

I :Well, that's the matter of stomach right?

V : Yes, the matter of stomach.

I :You, in the past.. you said in the past the dependency to that area was quite strong.

V : Yes.

I :After all that have been through, is there any feelings like that? that we still depend on that area..

V :Now.. Well, it's that sir. The changes over time is very basic, there is the consciousness from our government to build us, even though we are just the flakes from there. The government really pay attention to us, we're grateful for that now. So, the tendency to go there has become less. For example, now, the development of the fields has existed, while in the past, many young people go there to work in palm field. Now they come back here. Now they don't go to Srikin anymore, just to buy cigarettes, clothes, shoes, because everything has been provided here. It's like that. So, actually we're very proud now, the road is good, it's also the same with that area. Why else should we go there again? It's already.. it's already.. the goods here are already satisfying. For example, from what I see now, young people now.. if in the past, I saw.. they went there for years, when this road hasn't existed yet, if we wanted to go to Seluas, it was 2-3 hours. The road was muddy, like a pigpen. If we go by boat to Seluas it'll be 1 day. But now, if we go to Bengkayang, perhaps if we go at 7, before 7 o'clock in the evening we already arrive at home, It doesn't take the whole day. If I go to Seluas, let's say I go back and forth three times, it's possible, but it's not possible in the past. Because of the development of the era, so that government's program has been.. well.. very rapid. Like education, health.. they have.. have.. Well that's why, those are the changes which make people in Jagui, especially in this border, already realize.

I :So now, for people right here, especially for you, you don't feel that there's big difference anymore, compare with the region in Malaysia, with our region. There is a big difference now. Do you still feel like that?

V : (said something but got interupted)

I :With the opening of the road in this border, so that there's no big difference..

V :Yes, now because there's a little changes, like what I've said earlier, the education, health, any other counselings in farming, they are already existed. So, the difference between us, right here, and Malaysia, it's like doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't exist anymore. So, the people who work there, who already got married... many of them have got married. They all said that, in the past, the difference between us and Malaysia was huge. But now, there is no difference anymore in the field of economy which is very basic. which is very strike, very visible. Not anymore.

I :But why Malaysia (did he say Malaysia or Indonesia? it's not clear) still want to open its gate? Wished that it will be opened soon, so that you can use the documents which has a wider range, passport.. So that you can go to Kuching. Well..After the gate has been opened, you can have a passport, and then you want to go to a vacation, go shopping... Which one do you prefer? Go to Kuching or Pontianak?

V : Pontianak. Pontianak

I :Why is that?

V :I meant, Pontianak, first, it's in our own country. Ok, there's the time, certain time when our fund is.. what.. We have enough fund to visit our family in Kuching, well.. perhaps there will be the time for it. But, what I meant earlier, to enter with legal documents, usually it's for health treatement sir, which is very important. because our reason is like this, a strong reason. If we go to hospital.. I meant go to Puskesmas (small clinic) in Jagui Babang, they can't handle us. We have to go to Serukam (?? not clear). Just imagine. It's almost 3 hours, if we go to Kuching, it only takes 1 hour. That's why, if we use PLB, perhaps with a near distance, perhaps with more critical diseases, we can be treated fast. That's.. that's.. But actually, about doctors or paramedics, they all the same. There's no difference, but the distance which we need..

I :(Interrupt). So the distance to Kuching is nearer?

V : Yes.

I :If, has to be brought to elsewhere, for example in Pontianak...

V : It's further.

I :It's better but further. You tend to go to Kuching?

V : Because the distance is near.

I :The reason is the distance..

V :The distance is near. But the treatment is the same, the medicine is the same. The cost is cheaper because of the distance. That's the only difference. The doctors are the same, sir. It's the same anywhere. It's the same anywhere, the service, and the treatment, they are all the same.