TOWNSHIP OF MAHWAH PLANNING BOARD
MINUTES
FEBRUARY 11, 2008
6:45 P.M. – SUB-REVIEW COMMITTEE
1. OPENING STATEMENT
The combined public/work session meeting of the Planning Board of the Township of Mahwah held at the Municipal Building, 475 Corporate Dr., Mahwah, N.J. was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Dr. Ross, Chairman. The Opening Statement was read according to the Sunshine Law followed by the flag salute and roll call.
These minutes are a synopsis of the meeting. A verbatim audio tape recording is on file with the Board Secretary at the Planning Board Office, 475 Corporate Dr., Mahwah, N. J. Copies of the tapes may be purchased for a fee.
PRESENT: Mr. Brotherton, Mr. DaPuzzo, Mayor Martel, Dr. Ross, Mr. Spiech, Mr. Crean, Mr. Donigian, Mr. Rudolph, Mr. Williams
ABSENT: Mr. Jandris, Mr. Sherer
PROFESSIONALS: Peter J. Scandariato, Esq., Mike Kelly, P.E., Joe Burgis, P.P.
II. APPROVAL OF BILLS
1/28/08 P. David Zimmerman, P.P. $200.00
A motion to approve the bills was made by Mr. Spiech and seconded by Mr. Donigian. All voted in favor.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2008
A motion to approve was made by Mr. Brotherton and seconded by Mr. Spiech. A roll call revealed 9 aye votes by Mr. Brotherton, Mr. DaPuzzo, Mayor Martel, Dr. Ross, Mr. Spiech, Mr. Crean, Mr. Donigian, Mr. Rudolph, Mr. Williams.
B. MINUTES OF JANUARY 28, 2008
Planning Board Minutes
February 11, 2008
Page 2.
A motion to approve was made by Mr. Crean and seconded by Mr. Brotherton. A roll call revealed 8 aye votes by Mr. Brotherton, Mr. DaPuzzo, Mayor Martel, Dr. Ross, Mr. Spiech, Mr. Creank, Mr. Donigian, Mr. Rudolph and 1 abstention by Mr. Williams.
IV. MEMORIALIZING RESOLUTIONS
FROM MEETING OF 1/28/08
1. E-BD-216-1908-03 – MAHWAH LAND, LLC, 16 ARANOW PL.
A motion to approve was made by Mr. Brotherton and seconded by Mr. Spiech. A roll call of eligible members revealed 7 aye votes by Mr. Brotherton, Mr. DaPuzzo, Mayor Martel, Dr. Ross, Mr. Spiech, Mr. Crean, Mr. Rudolph.
2. RESOLUTION OF PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF PROPOSED ORDINANCE NO. 1606.
A motion to approve was made by Mr. Rudolph and seconded by Mayor Martel. A roll call of eligible members revealed 3 aye votes by Mayor Martel, Dr. Ross, Mr. Rudolph.
V. OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
A motion to open the meeting to the Public was made by Mr. DaPuzzo and seconded by Mr. Crean. All voted in favor.
A motion to close was made by Mr. Spiech and seconded by Mr. Rudolph. All voted in favor.
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. DKT. #515PF & #515PF SOIL – SHORT LINE BUS TOURS, INC.
Dr. Ross made the following statement: He indicated that the Board has received a revised amended site plan from Short Line Bus Tours which was not received within the time specified under the Municipal Land Use Law. Therefore they cannot hear the application this evening. However, the applicant’s porous pavement expert from Cahill Associates has driven 4 hours to testify about porous pavement and Dr. Ross stated that they would hear his testimony this evening.
Bruce Whitaker, Attorney for the Applicant appeared before the Board. Mr. Whitaker indicated that at the last meeting the Board requested information on porous pavement as to the way it would be installed, the quality of it and the concept behind it. Also how it
Planning Board Minutes
February 11, 2008
Page 3.
would be cleaned, serviced and maintained and how it would be compatible in this particular area recognizing that there are wells and an aquifer near by.
Mr. Whitaker indicated that he supplied the Board with some information regarding the porous pavement with respect to the abovementioned concerns.
Mr. DaPuzzo stated that in the DEP Regulations it is very specific that this type of pavement shall not be used in areas of high risk of spills of toxic materials such as gas stations and vehicle maintenance facilities. He read from page 9.7-4 Standard for Pervious Paving Systems February 2004. Mr. Whitaker stated that they are not at this point a vehicle maintenance facility to the standpoint that is defined in the DEP. However he will review this.
Daniel Wible, P.E., Cahill Associates, 217 Smallwood Court, West Chester, Pa. was sworn in. He stated his credentials and was accepted as an expert witness in the field of engineering as it particularly pertains to water resource engineering.
Under questioning by Mr. Whitaker, Mr. Wible described porous pavement which is pavement that allows water to run through it. Mr. Wible stated that he has designed many of these systems throughout the country. He stated that porous pavement is an infiltration system and performs much better in terms of water quality and controlling water quantity than a standard pavement parking lot would do which would run off to some other location. Mr. Wible addressed the Cross Sectional Image of the porous pavement system which was submitted to the Board members. Mr. Wible stated that the porous pavement needs to be cleaned (vacuum and swept) at least 2 to 3 times a year if not more with specialized cleaning trucks. He also described other locations that would be similar to the type of use proposed at this site. He stated that this type of porous pavement would be an excellent type of pavement for the area used for the storage of automobiles proposed at this site. He stated that research has shown that these systems are very effective in removing contaminants in urban runoff such as hydrocarbons, metals, etc.
Mr. DaPuzzo had a concern regarding the adjoining property and the monitoring wells at the site. He is concerned about an environmental plume at the adjoining property. Mr. Wible indicated that it is not a concern as far as the use of this type of site for porous pavement at this site. He also stated that he has some knowledge of U. S. Environmental regulations which Mr. DaPuzzo pointed out but did not know any of the specifics regarding the neighboring site.
Planning Board Minutes
February 11, 2008
Page 4.
Under questioning by Mr. DaPuzzo, Mr. Wible stated that the proximity of the monitoring wells was a distance of 100 feet or greater. He was not sure of the exact distance. Mr. DaPuzzo stated that this was a great concern of his.
Under questioning by Mr. Spiech, Mr. Wible stated he reviewed the plans for the site with regards to the porous pavement as well as the cross sectional detail and feels that this 3 layer system is appropriate for the proposed use on this site. He also indicated that the cleaning will be quarterly at this particular site.
Under questioning by Mr. Williams regarding truck traffic and porous pavement, Mr. Wible stated they do not recommend porous pavement for areas where there is heavy truck traffic. Mr. Whitaker stated that there will be standard pavement where there is truck access at the entrances, exits and the aisles. Porous pavement will be used only in the area where the cars are stored.
Mr. Crean had a concern regarding the amount of cars being stored on site with regards to the potential dripping of oil and gasoline. Mr. Wible explained the system indicating that the contaminants get broken down over time and believes they will not get into the drinking water.
Mr. DaPuzzo questioned the use of porous pavement on this site with regards to the statements made in the Best Management Practices which indicates that this should not be used for this proposed use. Mr. Whitaker addressed the Best Management Purposes with regards to Mr. DaPuzzo’s concern. Mr. Whitaker again stated that this pavement is being used where cars will be parked. There will be no service at this location. Any type of service or treatment of the car would occur inside of the building and there was testimony that no oil changes will be done at this site.
In answer to Mayor Martel’s question, Mr. Wible stated that to the best of his knowledge there is no type of liquid or material that would be harmful to this surface.
Mr. Brotherton had concerns regarding the cleaning of the porous pavement. Mr. Whitaker indicated that under the Best Management Practices there must be a maintenance plan. Under the BMP there are requirements by the DEP that management plans have to be approved. Mike Kelly agreed with this statement indicating that there is to be some legal means to prevent neglect and adverse alterations.
Mike Kelly had a concern about the maintenance of this porous pavement. He questioned that when the area is filled to capacity with automobiles where will they place the cars when the maintenance is to be done. Mr. Whitaker stated that the management of the company would have to synthesize their controls with the maintenance. It would
Planning Board Minutes
February 11, 2008
Page 5.
have to be done in stages. He indicated that the Board would have to see some sort of maintenance document that will demonstrate to their satisfaction that this maintenance plan is practical.
Mike Kelly questioned Mr. Wible with regards to whether this is a standard porous pavement detail. Mr. Wible stated this is somewhat different then their standard porous pavement detail. Mr. Wible gave his explanation. In response to Mike’s concern regarding the benefits to the DGA course which will prevent water or material from filtering down and getting into the stone, Mr. Wible stated they will modify their detail.
Mike Kelly questioned what would happen if the porous pavement should break up at sometime in the future. He was concerned that contaminates would go underneath the pavement. How would this affect the system. Mr. Wible explained that the porous pavement is not doing the majority of the work. The majority of the work is happening underneath. He stated that he has never experienced this happening. Any of these systems have never degraded to this extent.
Mike Kelly questioned Mr. Wible regarding the maintenance of the porous pavement. In answer to Mr. Kelly’s question, Mr. Wible stated that they can only maintain the surface course. Mike Kelly was concerned about Mahwah’s sole source aquifer.
Mike Kelly requested that the Board and the Township be provided with a more detailed water table monitoring for this site to make sure that what is being proposed meets their criteria of 2 to 3 feet of natural soil between the stone and the water table. Mr. Whitaker will review this with his engineer.
The Board members all had certain concerns regarding the design of this porous pavement system. Mr. Donigian stated that they are concerned about whether this is safe for the Mahwah drinking water supply and is not satisfied with the testimony given by Mr. Wible. Mr. Wible stated that he is more than comfortable with his testimony based on the information that he now has and feels that this system is the best thing they could do for this site for water quality. Mr. Donigian asked if there is any alternative design to this proposal. Mr. Wible stated that the alternative would be to build a standard pavement parking lot that would have some type of structural or mechanical means to filter the water and to treat it. That also requires maintenance but would not be as effective as the maintenance for porous pavement.
Mr. Whitaker stated that this proposal was a concept before this Board and is now aware that the Board is uncomfortable with the proposed porous pavement. Mr. DaPuzzo was uncomfortable with this and also concerned with the interpretation of the use. Mr. Burgis indicated that they will have to revisit this issue. Mr. Whitaker will send a memo
Planning Board Minutes
February 11, 2008
Page 6.
summarizing the applicant’s position on what the use is. They will also redesign the system to include standard pavement as opposed to the original porous pavement design.
A motion to open the meeting to the Public was made by Mr. Crean and seconded by Mr. Rudolph. All voted in favor.
A motion was made to close the hearing to the Public.
Public Hearing is continued on February 25, 2008.
VII. WORK SESSION
A. OLD/NEW BUSINESS
1. TA 08-006 – P & M LOUK & TA 06-2007 – BRUCHEM, 10 LEIGHTON PL
Peter Loukaris appeared before the Board. He is leasing space at 10 Leighton Place to operate a fitness center. Dr. Ross referred to the Township Ordinance No. 1589 which states the criteria for operating a fitness center.
Mr. Burgis indicated that they will need a detailed floor plan showing the breakdown of the square footage within the club. He must show that he meets the criteria for a fitness center including parking for the fitness center as well as Bruchem located in the same building. If they can not meet the criteria for parking for the proposed uses in the building then they would need a waiver or variance to relieve them of the requirement to have those parking spaces.
Bruce Grobman of Bruchem stated that he has vacant space in his part of the building which he will never use. He needs 3 employee parking spaces and does not anticipate ever needing anymore than that. He also stated that he is aware that based on these numbers that in the future he would not be able to lease any additional space or sell the building. He stated that he is able to give Mr. Loukaris the 55 parking spaces which is 1.5 per 1,000 feet. Mr. Grobman is before the Board this evening to amend his tenant application for approximately 3 to 5 spaces in lieu of the required parking.
Dr. Ross asked that Mr. Loukaris contact his architect, give him a copy of the ordinance and prepare detailed plans based on the criteria for fitness centers.