SSTS Advisory Committee Agenda

SSTS Advisory Committee Notes

March 18th, 2018

Attendee’s: Jim Larson, Cindy Tiemann, Sara Heger, Lisa McCormick, Brandon Montgomery, Pete Otterness, Aaron Jensen, Nick Haig, Wayne Johnson, Craig Gilbertson, Mark Latterell, Eric VanDyken, Ron Jasperson, Terry Neff, Stacy Feser, Cody Robinson, Gene Soderbeck, Jeff Iverson, and Jeff Grugel

1:00 – 1:10 PMIntroductions, agenda review and vacancies on Committees. Sara Heger & Aaron Jensen

Eric VanDyken has been appointed to the County SW position

1:10 PM – 2:30MPCA short update items

Goal -- AC informed of ongoing activity

1. MPCA Organizational Changes – Jim Ziegler

Jim Ziegler could not make the meeting today, so Gene Soderbeck went over the organizational changes. Wendy Turri the wastewater manager moved on from the MPCA to a new position, so that presented a good time to reorganize the MPCA SSTS staff. The SSTS group was combined under one supervisor to better align tasks and create more efficiencies in the program. The policy and planning and the compliance and enforcement is now combined under Gene Soderbeck and still under the same manger (Jim Ziegler). Sara Heger asked if this was the long-term solution. Gene Soderbeck stated that this is the long-term plan.

1. LGU Assessments – Gene Soderbeck

Gene Soderbeck explained that the MPCA wants to make sure that LGU’s who have said they have an SSTS program indeed do have a program. He passed out the LGU questionnaire. SSTS Local Program Requirements Questionnaire (wq-wwists2-51) Wayne Johnson asked if all of the counties have been assessed. Gene Soderbeck said no not all counties have been assessed. All counties have an up to date ordinance, submit the annual report, issue permits, and enforce their ordinance, but have not been assessed. The goal is to determine that all the LGU’s have an up to date ordinance, submit an annual report, implement a permitting program, and can enforce their program. Staff hope to do 5 assessments per year for a total of 25 focusing on cities and townships first. This is not for the purposes of withholding money, it is just to make sure that programs have the main components in order to create a level playing field. Jeff Iverson asked what the consequences for not meeting the core items are. Gene Soderbeck is currently working with legal staff to determine what the next steps will be. He believes that if they do not have those core items they do not have the capacity to implement the program. Wayne Johnson stated that beyond those core things there are things further down the list that many LGU’s are not following due to whatever circumstance people, time, money, and etc. Pete Otterness said that since you are on the short list and this will take longer to accomplish. How are you going to insure this purpose will not change to more of a punitive penalty in the future when Gene retires? Gene Soderbeck said that Jim Ziegler will be around for a while and will echo the same thoughts. Also the MPCA does not have any money involved in the cities and townships. He can only can control what it happening today and that this is the direction that the MPCA is going. Jim Ziegler can reinforce this at the next AC meeting. Craig Gilbertson added that part of his job is local assessments and he would willing to help with this. Nick Haig agreed that MPCA should look into how other agencies assess local programs, but noted the SSTS program is very different in that primacy rests with the counties. He believes the MPCA’s goal in assessing local programs is to build relationships and determine together where resources are needed and improvements are possible. Ron Jasperson asked if there has been more discussions in regards to moving those in the D status to an A status. Gene Soderbeck said that there have been some conversations and awards talked about, but nothing has been finalized at this point. Part of the future compliance will look at recognition. Wayne Johnson talked about how the mentor program is business suicide. He cannot train his competitors to take business away from himself. We need to rethink this program. Maybe we need to make it more of a neutral mentorship. He said that since the good contractors do not want to mentor to lose business, the poorer contractors are doing more of the mentorship. Sara Heger said that this is not new. Many other licenses do mentorships (plumbers, electrical, and etc.) Wayne Johnson said that those specialties have a more extensive mentorship. Eric VanDyken talked about how Kandiyohi has mentored in the past, but doesn’t do as much anymore. There was much discussion back and forth.

1. Talking Tour follow up – Aaron Jensen

Aaron Jensen went over the summary of the talking tour attendance and some historical attendance amounts from previous years. In 2018, there were 13 meetings with 62 counties, 15 cities, 5 townships and other LGU’s in attendance. The total number of people attending was 116 and the total number of LGU’s attending was 82. This is consistent with the previous years of 2017 and 2016. Aaron also went over a few highlights of the meetings. The tank pumping rule, contractor and LGU liability, and MPCA testing and training. There was good feedback at each meeting that LGU’s enjoyed this discussion and hope that these meetings continue. The MPCA plans to look at the amount of meeting for this upcoming year and determine if 13 is still the right number. The summary of the meetings is still under development and will be distributed to all LGU’s in the near future. Wayne Johnson asked if there was a way to have a licensed professional meeting as well. Maybe on the same day either before or after the LGU meeting. Aaron Jensen explained that we have typically held these meetings for LGU’s, but we could look into the possibility of hosting some contractor meetings.

1. SSTS Grants Update – Aaron Jensen

Aaron Jensen went over the forecast for the next fiscal year grant round. We received $130,000 less in this fiscal year than last, so distribution was discussed at SIETF. The SIETF committee recommended, since the dollars available for incentives would be low in order to maintain the $18,600 for base grants and the $1,000,000 for low-income fixe-ups, the incentives should be removed for this upcoming fiscal year and any extra money should be put into the low-income fix-ups. With the dollars available the incentives would be a few thousand dollars for eligible counties and the low-income fix-up grant is typically underfunded it made sense to move that money. A smaller incentive was not worth the extra reporting. Aaron Jensen also talked about future biennium funding and that we are developing budgets now and hope to have more fund available for incentives and low income fixes.

1. Proposed Rule Changes Update – Brandon Montgomery

Brandon said that the first comment period for the proposed rule is closed. We received 10 to 14 comments on the rule and all but one was on the tank pumping. Freezing and increased cost were the gist of those comments. Now we will develop the SONAR and any changes to the rule. The next step is another comment period with the actual rule language. The rule should be done around August or July, with a January 1 implementation date. Cindy Tiemann asked how compliance inspections could be done in the winter. There was discussion on having two previous borings and no snow cover, so they can do the inspection. Wayne Johnson wanted to talk about freezing a bit. He has never seen a system freeze due to pumping in the winter. He said that if you are worried you can put the septage back into the tank to warm it up, but a normal operating system pumped in the winter should not freeze. If there are other things happening due to not being home or a sale with no one in the house, then they could freeze. Brandon Montgomery said that we asked that question at the talking tour about the freezing issues and no one said they have seen a tank freeze due to pumping. There was much discussion on freezing tanks.

1. TAP Update – Cody Robinson

Cody Robinson provided a TAP update. Ben Hoyt from Goodhue County was added to the committee. He went over the products that were updated on the website to include MicroFAST, RetroFAST, Puraflo, H-Series, Advantex residential, Advantex HSW, Amphidrome residential, Amphidrome HSW, and Norweco. He notified the committee of a new product recommended for registration was Anua’s PuraSYS SBR. Products Cody is currently working on include EZ Treat, Ecopod, and Eljen as a distribution medium. There was discussion on Delta companies and if they are still in business. Jeff Iverson said that another company is looking at buying that company. Wayne Johnson asked about the registration letters and what they are. Cody explained product registration letters are what outline specific requirements that should be met in order to adhere to each product’s unique registration. As all Type IV products have different components and characteristics, registration letters are used to ensure all products are being used as tested, and within the framework of Minn. R. 7080-7081. Cody indicated product registration letters are what should ultimately be used to verify a product is registered in Minnesota.

1. Annual Report Update – Cody Robinson

Cody Robinson provided an update of the annual report and the SNAP survey. Overall, feedback from LGUs at the talking tour was positive, but Cody is still accepting feedback to consider for next year. The only issue Cody had to address continually was the system’s verification of license numbers in the Tank Report. Cody indicated this will be fixed in next year’s survey. Cody indicated the reporting window is closed, and he is no longer seeking reports from the remaining LGUs. There was discussion on the number of existing system inspections conducted and the number of new and replacement systems installed. Eric Van Dyken asked if the seasonal versus full time was something that we actually use, because most areas do not know that difference. Aaron Jensen stated that it is called out separately in the rule, so that is probably why it is asked this way. Cindy Tiemann asked if those that did not submit and annual report would be first to be assessed. Yes, they would be moved to the top of the list. Eric Van Dyken asked if this new Snap Survey process was better and Cody Robinson said that yes it has been a great help to collect the data and combine the data. Brandon Montgomery provided the information in the SONAR about why we ask for seasonal versus full time. The seasonal dwellings are thought to contribute less to the overall sewage impact, since they are used less. There was much discussion on the environmental effects of seasonal and full time.

1. Tank Registration Issues Update – Aaron Jensen

Aaron Jensen gave an overview of the issue and the planned solution. Currently tanks are registered and listed separately for each use. This causes issues if the anticipated use of the tank is planned to change over time. The current proposal would be to allow tanks that are exactly the same to be registered under multiple uses. For example a 1500 gallon tank that is registered as a pump, septic, and holding tank separately now but is the exact same tank could be registered as one 1500 universal tank. Therefore, when a 1500 universal tank goes to a site it can be for multiple uses. The thought is that each of those tanks would be built with the strictest requirements covering all three uses. The plan would be to develop a volunteer program for the tank manufacturers to register their tanks how they choose. Some manufacturers expressed that the current process works fine and they see no need to make any changes. Others felt that this change would be beneficial for their area. So manufacturers can choose if they want to keep the tanks registered separate or if they want to combine them under a universal registration or a combination of both. Ron Jasperson talked about registering a new tank and that there must be separate registrations for each use, even though it is the same piece of concrete. Aaron Jensen talked about the same piece of concrete and that even though it is the same piece of concrete there are differences in the tanks and the current process was set up to make sure the proper things are in place. Baffles is one of those examples. Ron Jasperson felt that the LGU permit should dictate the use. Aaron Jensen pointed out that the permit determination was not always fluid and we do not want to rely on other factors to determine tank use. The use is determined by the registration done by the tank manufacturers and the MPCA. We will work with the manufacturers to set up the parameters of the new process to make sure it is acceptable before moving forward.

2:30 – 3:30 PMMember topics

Goal – Members bring up topics for discussion and consideration

1. UMN-MDH Homeowner Education Dates

Sara Heger said they did one training in Martin county and they don’t have the list and dates of the other meetings yet. They will finalize those and send out a post card to homeowners to let them know of the meeting. She said she would post the dates and locations in the bulletin for everyone else. The post card will have a website with the information on the meetings. They are 2-hour classes. There was much discussion on locations. Sara Heger said that they would be willing to add more if there was a need. They handed out test kits at the Martin County meeting for nitrogen and fecal. The cost for the mailed in test is 35 dollars.

1. Others

Wayne Johnson -- bonding and enforcement – Wayne Johnson explained the situation in Ottertail County in regards to a bond claim. The issue is between two inspectors and one that is wrong. The homeowner placed a bond claim and the bond company is refusing to pay due to the system being 37 years old. Now the homeowner has hired an attorney. It has been a long wait to get answers to the claim. Eric Van Dyken said that the information that Nick Haig posted in the bulletin yesterday on the bond process was very informative. It also explained that the last scenario is unfortunately to hire an attorney. The group asked if this bulletin article was a new one. Nick Haig said that this was a new article based on information we’ve learned about and developed over the past few years. He stated that he intends for this article to be repurposed as a fact sheet to outline important role and the limitations of surety bonds in resolving disputed work. He noted that bond claims must demonstrate two things – that noncompliant work took place, and the extent that work caused harm to the claimant. System age and condition can come into play in certain cases, but age itself does not eliminate liability when noncompliant work causes harm. He added that when a contractor is prepared to legally defend itself in a bona fide dispute, the surety company will wait for the dispute outcome before further payment consideration.

Cindy Tiemann -- new proposed fall nitrogen application restrictions. The governor put out something that said nitrogen and fall applications would be limited. She did some research and found that it did not pertain to septage and manure and it was more for commercial fertilizer applications. Cindy was concerned that most of their applications of septage were in the fall. She wanted to be sure that it did not affect the maintainer industry.

Matt Summers -- NOWRA conference and submittal of papers. Sara Heger said that the 22-24th of October is when the NOWRA conference is being held in MN. They are currently looking at highlighting the awesomeness of MN and highlight the soils program of MN. The conference is in Bloomington. There will be a call for papers posted by the end of March. It is not a requirement to submit the papers, but they can if they want to.

There was discussion on the new bill HF3339 to exempt maintainers from the MNDOT road weight restrictions that MOWA proposed. It is currently in the house and in the transportation committee. There is not a companion bill at this time. Gene Soderbeck said that the MPCA supports this bill.

Gene Soderbeck talked about the LCCMR grants and asked the group if anyone had any research that they can think of doing in relation to septics that we could move forward for future grant applications. Cindy Tiemann thought of two. One is WWTP taking and not taking septage. Two would be some research on the application and the fertilizer benefits of septage and the issue of contaminants of emerging concern and other things. Are there impacts or not to the land? What are the benefits to crops where septage is applied? This would go a long way to help with application sites in MN. There was much discussion on current research available.