HRF
HRF MEETING – 11 JUNE 2004
SCOTTISH HEALTH SERVICE CENTRE – EDINBURGH
Present: Gordon Wenham – RCN – Delegated Chair
Lynne Khindria – NHS Lothian
Patricia McNally – CSP
John Callaghan – NHS Ayrshire & Arran
Dougie Lockhart – RCN
Eileen Moir – NHS Borders
Alistair Brown – SEHD
Jonathan Best – Yorkhill
Jim Cameron – South Glasgow
Gillian Lenaghan – RCM
John Reid – Forth Valley
Michael McNeil – UNISON (Deputising for Jim Devine)
Lilian Macer – UNISON
Catherine Mackay – UNISON
Graham Pirie – SCP
Susan Russell – GMB
Anne Thomson – RCN
In attendance: Jacqui Jones, PSU Ryan Gunn, PSU
Alex Killick, SEHD Sandy Agnew, Item 5
Robin Cairncross, SEHD Item 8 Diane Murray, PSU, Item 4
1. Apologies
Lindsey Ferries, George Brechin, Elizabeth Stowe, Gordon Walker, Malcolm Iredale, Julie McNutt, Gerry Marr, Eddie Egan, Billy Parker, Robert Calderwood, Jim Devine, Lex Gold, Mark Butler and Michael Fuller.
2. Minute of last meeting
2.1 The minute was accepted as an accurate record of the last meeting.
3. Matters Arising
3.1 Information on Speech and Language Therapists to be circulated to all members.
Action: Alex Killick
4. Employment Issues in NHS Scotland
4.1 This issue was raised as way of informing members of the implications of Employer Status following the move to single system working on 1 April 2004. Members were asked to recommend an agreed course of action based on 2 options.
1. To revoke the regulation fully or partly to allow NHS Boards to employ staff in the same way that Trusts were able to.
2. To leave the regulations intact and ensure that the Boards apply the following:
· All new staff must be employed on Whitley terms, pay and conditions
· Staff transferred on non Whitley should be moved onto Whitley. Were this is less favourable, pay and conditions will be protected under the Organisational Change Policy.
4.2 There was a general agreement that further clarification and work was required around this issue as members raised a variety of concerns based on the information in the summary paper. Members agreed to the setting up of a working group whose role would be to look at the issue in more detail and report back. Those members who kindly volunteered to sit on the group are:
· Jim Cameron (Plus 2 other HR Directors)
· Gillian Lenaghan
· Jim Devine (Put forward by Michael MacNeil in Jim’s absence)
· John Callaghan
· Jonathan Best
· RCN – details of representative to be passed at a later date.
5. NHS Logistics Strategy
5.1 Sandy Agnew updated members on the progress made since he last reported to the group on 3 February. The focus of the presentation was to explain the context and background of the logistics review, share key findings, the long term logistic strategy, the Outline Business Case, the impact on staff, the implementation plan and finally detail the next steps and key actions from now until August 2004. It is hoped that the presentation will provide compelling evidence to support and indeed endorse the need for change as the fragmented and poor logistics infrastructure currently used by NHSScotland is not meeting the needs of the service and needs to be addressed.
5.2 Members queried Sandy on a number of issues relating to the impact on staff and service delivery. The response to these issue was to reiterate to members that the main focus behind the strategy was to improve service delivery and maximise benefits. Staff would be redistributed within the system and retrained where appropriate. In addition, contracts will remain unchanged.
5.3 Members were happy to endorse, in principle, the outline business case but full HRF endorsement is still required and will be sought at a later date.
Action: Jacqui Jones
6. HRF Workplan
6.1 Jacqui Jones is still seeking comments on the draft work plan circulated to members before the meeting on 6 April 2004 and sought agreement from members at the meeting.
6.2 Subject to full HRF endorsement, members were content, in principle, with the work plan. Full endorsement will be sought at a later date.
Action: Jacqui Jones
7. PSU Work Plan
7.1 The purpose of this issue was to inform members of the proposed PSU work plan for 2004/05 which incorporated a response to the comments received from both HRF and SPF members and to seek endorsement. Jacqui was also keen to add that PSU will avoid conflict where possible.
7.2 Members welcomed what was a comprehensive piece of work though perhaps more clarification could be added with regards to roles etc.
7.2 Subject to full HRF endorsement, members were content, in principle, with the work plan. Full endorsement will be sought at a later date.
Action: Jacqui Jones
8. Safer for Patients, Supportive for Professionals
8.1 The above consultation paper was circulated to all members for comment. The purpose of the consultation paper is to set out proposals on how this framework could be established and managed. The framework must ensure delivery of equity and accountability in a way that makes clear that the responsibility for managing such situations resides squarely with NHS Boards and, for those professionals which are regulated at a UK level, does not conflict with, but rather complements the activity of regulatory bodies.
8.2 There then followed a lengthy debate on various aspects of the paper. The lack of consultation with the HRF. No tie in to current initiatives such as the Capability PIN Guideline. There were concerns on the proposed setting up of another group, lack of consistency, no mention of Mid-Wifery and the real lack of benefits to staff.
8.3 In bringing the debate to a close, it was agreed to defer this issue to another date to allow members more time to digest the information contained within the Consultation paper and formulate a response. PSU will investigate the possibility of either organising a half day event to look at this issue or use the policy seminar scheduled for 8 and 9 July and invite the Chief Medical Officer to the meeting, diary permitting.
Action: PSU
9. Terms & Conditions Sub-Group
9.1 Members were informed of the outcome of the discussions at SPRIG on Terms and Conditions issues and invited to agree the way forward. In summarising the main issues contained in the paper. There will be 2 sub-groups of the HRF to deal with Terms & Conditions issues. One to be called “The Agenda for Change Guidance and Interpretation Sub-Group” and the other “The SPRIG Terms & Conditions Sub-Group”. Both groups will report directly to SPRIG. Members will then agree, on an issue by issue basis the parameters for each negotiation.
9.2 It was reported that the membership for Agenda for Change Guidance and Interpretation Sub-Group had already been established and the first meeting of the group took place on 10 June 2004. The Terms and Conditions group membership and dates for meeting have yet to be finalised.
9.3 Again, members were happy to endorse the recommendation in principle, subject to approval from the full membership.
Action: Jacqui Jones
10. Mapping Exercise
10.1 Members were invited to submit their comments to Ryan by 25 June.
Action: HRF
Items 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20
No comments received.
15. OHSSIG
15.1 Minute of 17 May to be circulated at a later date.
Action: Ryan Gunn
AOB
Childcare allowance for Students in England and Wales to be added to the agenda for the next meeting scheduled for 4 August.
Action: PSU
The date of the next meeting is Wednesday 4 August 2004. The venue for the meeting is Stirling Council Chamber.
Ryan Gunn
Partnership Support Unit
16 June 2004
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