Pocsa Engagement Events: Perth, Dundee, Glasgow, Edinburgh April 2008

Paper 8/2

1.The issues below were discussed at the recent engagement events on the proposed amendment to PoCSA and regulated work with children under the PVG Act.

2.Some members of the VSIG attended the engagement events and took part in the discussions. We do not propose to replicate the discussion at the VSIG. However, those members of VSIG who attended the engagement events will be asked to feedback to other members the summary of discussion.

(1)Sections 14 - 16: Work in educational institutions etc may also capture positions such as:

Cleaners
Supervisors, area managers, facility officers etc who regularly visit schools to ensure the quality standards in the catering and cleaning services are met
Trades people (eg plumber, window cleaner, joiner, de-icer, maintainer of fire-alarms, van driver dropping off parcels at school)

Questions for discussion

1.Should this type of position not be regulated work if the work is outside normal school and college hours?

2.What are the practicalities of this eg local authority contracts with cleaning companies and cleaners perhaps covering both normal and out-of-hours situations?

3.If the individual is supervised by a scheme member such as a janitor, caretaker, administrative member of staff should they not be a scheme member?

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(2)Sections 12, 13 & 17: Work in children’s detention institution, children’s hospital and children’s home. This is consequential to consideration of work in educational institutions.

Questions for discussion

1.If there are parent groups meeting on a regular basis in, for example, the children’s hospital, but they have no face-to-face contact with patients, should they be in regulated work?

2.What about trades people and facility officers etc? Should they be out of scope of regulated work if they are supervised by a scheme member?

3.Are the issues any different from those for schools and colleges? (eg children are present all the time in detention institutions, children’s hospitals and children’s homes).

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(3):Section 4:Teaching, instructing, training or supervising children (except teaching, instructing, or training children which is merely incidental to teaching, instructing, or training individuals who are not children).

Questions for discussion

1.The “incidental test” was included in a number of paragraphs in schedules 2 and 3 of the PVG Act in response to various representations made. The scheme needs to be proportionate and correctly targeted and is not to be applied in every situation where an individual comes into contact with a group which includes a child. It means, for example, that the instructor of a day’s white water rafting event held frequently that incidentally includes children will not be in regulated work with children. Concern has since been raised about overnight ventures and activities. It has been put to us that having children incidentally present during these overnight expeditions might compromise a local authority duty of care to children. What are people’s views on this?