Support Staff Specialist Group
Minutes of the meeting, 22nd May 2006
50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London
Present:
Beth Barrett, Diane Blunden, Tracey Burrows, Paul Couchman, Vanessa Eggerdon, Tess Fenn, Sue Gibbons, Jennifer Harris, Sally Kemp, Theresa Leach, Jeanette Maher, Karen Nash (sec), Dalgeet Puaar (chair), Gill Risby, Susan Ward, Barbara Wensworth.
Apologies:
Julie Jordan, Lesley Morgan, Alison Simpson.
Minutes of meeting held 16th March 2006
Dalgeet stated that she had received an email from David Webb regarding the minuting of the “review of NOS” that he is involved in. He asked that this section read
“The development of NOS follows a typical pattern of: functional analysis; gap analysis; development or revision of NOS by working with staff and employers; field-testing of draft standards and then accreditation of the revised standards. There are three groups that are key to this process: the Strategy Group (including representatives of the UK Health Departments and RPSGB) that has responsibility for ensuring project outputs are fit for purpose; the Reference Group whose role is to ensure that the content of the standards is appropriate and has validity amongst stakeholders: the Project Executive Group, a small group that includes the technical consultants involved in producing the draft NOS.”
David also said “later in the minutes it reports that the BTEC is a level 4 qualification. It might be worth clarifying that in job evaluation terms, the knowledge, training and experience factor is JE level 4 for the pharmacy technician profile, but in terms of he National Qualifications Framework (as it applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland), the BTEC National Certificate in Pharmacy Services is a level 3 qualification (as is the NVQ 3). In Scotland, SVQ 3 is at level 6 in the SCQF.”
Matters arising
Dalgeet reported that unfortunately David Webb was unable to attend the meeting but that she would invite him again. He has nothing to report at this moment in time.
Action: DP to invite David to the next meeting
Diane Blunden stated that she had received no response regarding the group membership information. Please could people send this information ASAP.
Action: All to send info regarding group membership to DB ASAP.
Tess Fenn questioned the recording of the minutes regarding Expert Witness. Tess said her understanding was that City and Guilds wants to include Expert Witnesses in the assessment strategy and that we can use them. Several members of the group said this was not the message they had received at the City and Guilds training event.
Action; Tess to clarify
Discussion of issues relating to ACT
As Lesley Morgan was not present to give the group background information regarding these questions then it was agreed to defer discussion until the next meeting.
Action: KN to add to next agenda.
Correspondence
No correspondence had been received
Policy update from Strategy Group
CPPE flyers had been distributed.
Susan Saunders had distributed the annual report. The next annual report had been discussed and had been put on the agenda for the next meeting. It should also appear on this groups next agenda.
Action: KN to add to next agenda
Pharmacy Sector Committee- Dalgeet reported that there had been no progress on the previous discussion regarding whether the committee belonged with the Pharmaceutical Society or with Skills for Health.
City and Guilds and the External Verifier situation had been discussed. Ideas for a letter to them included; the number of EV’s, communication between City and Guilds and centres and EV support. See further discussion under City and Guilds update.
National Staffing Survey is due out in the next few weeks. It has been delayed because of relevant questions regarding CPD and the Pharmaceutical Society.
Lesley had emailed that the CPD working group had completed its work. The rules for CPD are due out for consultation in the summer.
Action: KN to add to next agenda
Carole Blackshaw had talked about dates for next years meetings. It was decided to evaluate the six meetings a year idea in October.
Consultation paper is currently out for the Section 60 order. It was proposed that a response should be drafted from the committee. Carole Blackshaw will collate responses from the main group by the 9th June. Send comments to Dalgeet by 7th June so that she can forward this groups response to Carole.
Action: All to send comments to DP by 7th June 2006
NVQ funding streams had been discussed.
ACT in Technical Services
Sally Kemp talked to the group about the project to date.
Production training
Gill Risby wanted to clarify the situation regarding the City and Guilds course she had previously brought to the group. She stated that John Harwood had wanted to investigate it for members of his staff who had no clear pathway. It had been looked at by TSEPT and they had had a meeting with Alison Beaney. A meeting due next week with Tim Sizer had been cancelled. They were interested to see how it meets Pharmacy needs. Gill reported that it was a long, slow process.
SK asked if there was any further information available. Gill reported that there was only sample coursework which was equivalent to the BTEC in some areas. It is supposed to be a level 2 qualification but felt to be more a level 3.
JM asked if it was only suitable for Production staff. Gill said yes
TF asked the name of the qualification. Industrial processing, designed to support an NVQ.
Registration update
No news to report. BW stated that more than 3000 technicians were now registered.
Edexcel update
Barbara Wensworth reported that the new BTEC was now finished and was currently undergoing its second scrutiny for Edexcel. The new standards have been matched closely to the NVQ but the NVQ will soon be changing as well. It is planned that teaching will start in Sept 2007 and has yet to go to QCA. Tutor support material is still to be written but the current grading criteria is still there! This means that the overall grade is still the lowest grade a student has achieved which is very de-motivating for them. Edexcel have insisted that grading strategy stays. The unit structure is the same but there will be no IVA.
TF commented that it would be moderated anyway. BW said yes it would be subject to the normal scrutiny.
City and Guilds update
Dalgeet reported that she had asked City and Guilds regarding a representative and they had suggested Tess Fenn. Tess had the following official statement from them:
City and Guilds level 3 Certificate in Pharmacy Services will be available as from the 1st October 2006. Marketing of the award will take place during late summer/ autumn 2006 and full details will be available on the City and Guilds website as from 1st October 2006. Assessment for all mandatory and optional units will be externally set, internally marked and externally verified assignments. City and Guilds is working closely with consultants from hospital, community, PCT’s, armed forces and prison services to ensure the assessments meet the needs of ALL sectors of the industry.
Further information can be obtained from Veronica Read, Product and Development manager, 0207 294 2438, e mail:
City and Guilds will be developing a level 2 Pharmacy Services Technical Certificate as soon as the revised NOS become available.
BW asked if the currency of the award would be similar to the BTEC. TF Said yes it went through the same QCA process. She said that the units were agreed but the assignments had not yet been written.
The EV situation was discussed at this point.
VE reported that the number of EV’s was diminishing again. There are now more centres and less EV’s. The application forms can be downloaded from the C&G website.
DP asked why people pulled out of the training. VE and TF thought there were a number of reasons including time commitment and workload.
KN raised the lack of communication between C&G and centres. This was a problem for most of the group. TF felt it could be because the organisation was split into regions but the EV’s worked across several regions. BW reported that Edexcel was run nationally so did not have the same problem.
It was reported that names had been forwarded to C&G for people willing to undergo EV training but they had received no response.
It was agreed that a letter should be sent from the group, to Veronica Read and Tony Sharpe regarding the issues of EV numbers, how they plan to attract more EV’s and the problems with communication.
Action: All local issues to be emailed to DP by the end of June. DP to collate.
APTUK update
TF reported that the new president of the APTUK was Sarah Wilcox.
The 2007 conference will be held in Birmingham, 19th to 22Nd April. It had been discussed whether the conference could be over 3 days rather that 4 but the decision was that it should stay at 4 days to allow those members travelling long distances time to network.
There is also to be a one day conference on the 27th October in Bristol. SK reported that the venue may be Somerset College, Taunton rather than Bristol.
The APTUK is linking with CPPE and other countries to facilitate joint study days. This will attract DOH funding.
The APTUK will be responding to the section 60 order.
Agenda for Change Band 8a profile. This has been agreed in principle but the DOH require more evidence that this profile is required. They need examples of Job Descriptions and person specification. Volunteers had been asked to fill out JAQ’s but these were mainly from Guys and St Thomas so they need examples from other areas of the country.
Competencies for Pharmacy Staff
DB reported that there were two working groups involved in this project, one generalist and one specialist education and training. At present it is not clear who will own the competencies once they are completed but it is likely to be Skill for Health.
DB said there had been a presentation from each group, collating existing competencies. She will send the minutes for circulation to the group. The next meeting will be held on the 23rd November 2006.
Action: DB to send minutes to KN. KN to circulate to group
BW reported that once Section 60 was passed the Pharmaceutical Association will accredite technical qualifications. Visits will probably start next year and will start with the non national qualifications providers of underpinning knowledge.
TL asked when the process would start as they had problems with college providers and were looking to use Buttercups and NPA packs. BW said she had no dates but thought that they were likely to start with Buttercups and NPA.
TF reported that Buttercups and the NPA had been working with C&G on the VRQ. NPA have new pharmacists looking at the underpinning knowledge.
Dates of the next meeting
24th July
2nd Oct
4th Dec
Any Other Business
ACT and A4C banding
Lynne Bollington had asked in the morning meeting how technicians who worked towards their ACT were then awarded points? Some technicians with ACT are a band 5, trainees are a band 4, then they qualify, what do they do until jobs become available?
TF said the KSF needs to be used as the development tool. You need to look at your staff and decide how many ACT’s you need to provide the service. Lots of technicians see ACT as the next step but never use it.
JM that in her trust the first gateway of band 5 is ACT. Asked if those affected could get the job reviewed?
TL reported that in her area all ACT’s had come out on Band 4 so were appealing.
Funding for NVQ’s
TB asked if people could send her information regarding level 2 funding. SK stated that in the morning meeting the majority of people reported that they had received no funding and that ILA’s would no longer be available,
DP said that it was the governments’ view that employers should pay for the training required by their staff.
GR has worked with the LSC to obtain apprenticeship funding.
JM has obtained Scientific workers funding from the SHA, but this is for level 3.
Amendment to ACT errors list.
DB asked if it was possible to make an amendment to the errors list. It presently states a missing BNF warning but she had had a case of an incorrect warning label being used.
It was agreed that the list was not exhaustive and this could be added.
GR reminded everyone that she was collating information regarding the funding of educational units.
Action: All send information to GR
BW reported that there were still places available on the Morpeth Course.
Also a foundation degree was now available at Huddersfield University, the cost was £250 per module, and information sheets were circulated to the group.
There was also now a BSC course at Hallam.