WG3-6-7-10-09-001 Teleconference 9/28/10
SPDC Working Group 3.6.7
Low Voltage Data, Communications and Signaling Circuit SPD
Summary of the July 12, 2010 Teleconference
Chairman: Al Martin, Tyco Electronics
ViceChairman/Secretary: Ernie Gallo, Telcordia
Table of Contents
Table of Contents 1
1 Attendance 1
2 Administration 2
3 Review and approval of agenda (-002) 2
4 IP statement 2
5 Review and approval of the notes from the last meeting 3
6 Receipt of contributions 3
7 Review of homework assignments from last meeting 3
8 Chair’s Remarks 4
8.1 Committee membership 4
8.2 WG Scope 4
8.3 Contribution cover page 4
8.4 Comments on the teleconference 4
9 Liaison 4
10 Old business: Continue work on PC62.36 4
10.1 PAR for PC62.36 4
10.2 Relevant contributions 4
10.3 Review WG3.6.7-05-05-005 [Living List] 5
10.4 New item [originally Item 1]: Harmonic distortion test 5
10.5 Item 2 and Item 3: Combine Insertion loss [Clause 7.7] with Return loss [Clause 7.9] and Phase Shift [Clause 7.8], redefine test using S parameters. 6
10.6 Item 4 Longitudinal balance [Clause 7.10] 8
10.7 New tests 8
10.8 Post-meeting discussion 8
11 New Business 8
12 Contributions needed 8
13 Action Items for next meeting 9
14 Next Meeting 9
1 Attendance
The following members and interested parties attended:
Members present (9)
Ashton, Robert ON Semiconductor
Chaudhry, Nisar TII Network Technologies, Inc.
Drewes, Leonard World Products
Gallo, Ernie Telcordia Technologies
Klobassa, Bogey Sonoma Scientific
Maytum, M. MJMaytum
Martin, Albert Tyco Electronics
Oertel, Wolfgang Bourns, Inc
Rebeck, Alan R.O. Associates, Ltd.
Members absent (2)
Bush, William Consultant
Travis, Bill Littelfuse
Interested Parties (3)
Hopkins, Michael EMTEST
Pelegris, Jim Consultant
Turner, Don Retired
2 Administration
WG 3.6.7 met for 1 hour on Monday, July 12, 2010.
Attendance: 9 members, 3 interested parties, 12 total
As 9 of the 11 WG members were present, there was a quorum.
3 Review and approval of agenda (-002)
The agenda was reviewed and approved.
4 IP statement
Advised the WG attendees that:
· The IEEE’s patent policy is consistent with the ANSI patent policy and is described in Clause 6 of the IEEE-SA Standards Board Bylaws;
· Early identification of patent claims which may be essential for the use of standards
under development is encouraged;
· There may be Essential Patent Claims of which the IEEE is not aware. Additionally, neither the IEEE, the WG, nor the WG chair can ensure the accuracy or completeness of any assurance or whether any such assurance is, in fact, of a Patent Claim that is essential for the use of the standard under development.
Instructed the WG Secretary to record in the minutes of the relevant WG meeting:
· That the foregoing information was provided and the five slides were shown;
· That the chair or designee provided an opportunity for participants to identify patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) and/or the holder of patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) that the participant believes may be essential for the use of that standard;
· Any responses that were given, specifically the patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) and/or the holder of the patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) that were identified (if any) and by whom
5 Review and approval of the notes from the last meeting
The unapproved minutes from the May 17, 2010 live meeting in San Diego were posted on the SPD Forum. The minutes were approved as read.
6 Receipt of contributions
WG3.6.7-10-03-003 [Al Martin – Cover page for contributions]
WG3.6.7-10-03-005 [Mick Maytum – IEEE Word template version of C62.36-2000]
WG3.6.7-10-03-006R1 [Al Martin – Line Balance]
WG3.6.7-10-07-001 [Al Martin – Unapproved minutes from the 11/18/09 Telecon]
WG3.6.7-10-07-002 [Al Martin – Agenda]
WG3.6.7-10-07-003 [Al Martin – Distortion]
WG3.6.7-10-07-004 [Al Martin – IL, RL, and PS]
WG3.6.7-10-07-005 [Al Martin – Table of clause actions]
WG3.6.7-10-06-006 [Al Martin - Living List of Items for the Next Revision of C62.36]
WG3.6.7-10-07-007L [Mick Maytum and Wolfgang Oertel – GDT Oscillation]
WG3.6.7-10-07-008 [Al Martin – Edited list of C62-36 clauses]
7 Review of homework assignments from last meeting
Al Martin to revise WG3-6-7-10-03-007R2 [Harmonic distortion] based on the discussion of this meeting [done]
Al Martin to revise WG3-6-7-10-03-004 [Transmission properties] based on the discussion of this meeting [done]
Mike Hopkins to rewrite his cable discharge test as an informative annex. [not done]
Mick Maytum to draft a contribution explaining how to do an intermodulation test. [not done – but extenuating circumstances]
Mick Maytum and Wolfgang Oertel to draft a contribution on GDT oscillation. [done]
8 Chair’s Remarks
8.1 Committee membership
The IEEE SPDC policy on membership was explained in the Agenda [clause 7.1]
8.2 WG Scope
The scope of WG3.6.7 activities was explained in the Agenda [clause 7.3]
8.3 Contribution cover page
For contributions, use the cover page available on the SPDC web site https://www.ieeecommunities.org/spd?go=2288016] as WG3.6.7-10-03-003. Send your contributions to Al. He will assign the contributions a number, and post them on the SPDC web site. For examples of the format of a contribution [as agreed upon at the Fall, 2009 meeting], see recent contributions by Al Martin or Mick Maytum on the SPDC web site. Two Reasons for using this form: (1) With this form we know whom to contact if there are any questions about the contribution; and (2) the rationale for the contribution is recorded for future reference.
8.4 Comments on the teleconference
Ernie Gallo provided the teleconference bridge using Telcordia’s teleconferencing service. Al Martin tried using Live Meeting, but it was very slow, and essentially useless. Robert Ashton said he could arrange a WebEx service for sharing documents, and we’ll try it for the next teleconference.
9 Liaison
None
10 Old business: Continue work on PC62.36
The document is IEEE PC62.36™/D1, Draft Standard for Test Methods for Surge Protectors Used in Low-Voltage Data, Communications, and Signaling Circuits, contribution WG3.6.7-10-03-005
10.1 PAR for PC62.36
The PAR for PC62.36 was posted in the Agenda [clause 8.1]
10.2 Relevant contributions
WG3.6.7-05-05-005 [Al Martin - Living List of Items for the Next Revision of C62.36]
WG3.6.7-10-03-005 [Mick Maytum – IEEE Word template version of C62.36-2000]
WG3.6.7-10-03-006R1 [Al Martin – Line Balance]
WG3.6.7-10-07-002 [Al Martin – Agenda]
WG3.6.7-10-07-003 [Al Martin – Distortion]
WG3.6.7-10-07-004 [Al Martin – IL, RL, and PS]
WG3.6.7-10-07-005 [Al Martin – Table of clause actions]
WG3.6.7-10-07-007 [Mick Maytum and Wolfgang Oertel – GDT Oscillation]
10.3 Review WG3.6.7-05-05-005 [Living List]
The following clauses relate to items on the Living List
10.4 New item [originally Item 1]: Harmonic distortion test
10.4.2 Proposal
Add a Distortion test to PC62.36
10.4.3 Discussion from last meeting
At the last meeting, Al Martin discussed his contribution, originally titled, “Rated voltage and rated current test” [WG3-6-7-10-03-007R2], intended to replace clauses 7.1 and 7.2. The WG thought that Mick’s ringing voltage to DC test was more appropriate to replace the rated voltage and rated current tests for POTS lines, so that Al’s contribution would not be accepted for that purpose. However it was the consensus of the WG that a harmonic distortion test was needed. Since Al’s contribution defines a harmonic distortion test, it could be accepted as such, and re-titled “Harmonic distortion test”
10.4.4 Discussion from this meeting
Al presented his re-worked contribution titled Harmonic Distortion Testing [WG3.6.7-10-07-003]. It is based on text in the “Rated voltage and rated current test” [WG3-6-7-10-03-007R2] contribution presented at the last meeting, and incorporates the suggestions made during the meeting [see clause 10.5 in the minutes from the San Diego meeting].
Robert Ashton pointed out that given the way DSL works, what is important is not total harmonic distortion as the contribution specifies, but the amplitude of each individual harmonic. That is because total harmonic distortion would have the same value whether the power in the harmonics was all concentrated at one frequency, or spread out over many frequencies. However the effect on DSL performance could well be quite different, depending on how the power was distributed over the frequency range.
There was considerable discussion on Robert’s observation, including how to report the results of testing, and what the requirements for passing the test should be. There was no conclusion at the meeting. Perhaps the requirements in clause 5.3 of ANSI/TIA968B would be appropriate. Al to ponder and come up with a suggestion.
10.4.5 Resolution
At the San Diego meeting the WG voted to add a new clause under “Characteristics” entitled “Harmonic distortion”, with the text for this new clause taken from Al’s WG3-6-7-10-03-007R2 contribution. Al’s new contribution on Harmonic Distortion was accepted in principle, but the comments need to be addressed.
10.5 Item 2 and Item 3: Combine Insertion loss [Clause 7.7] with Return loss [Clause 7.9] and Phase Shift [Clause 7.8], redefine test using S parameters.
10.5.2 Proposal
Combine clauses 7.7, 7.8, and 7.9 into one clause entitled “Transmission properties”
10.5.3 Discussion from last meeting
The WG thought that the test should be done both with and without bias applied to the protector, as bias can change the protector capacitance, and hence the transmission properties of the protector.
The reference to the North Hills balun should be moved to a note.
10.5.4 Discussion from this meeting
Robert Ashton said a figure was needed to show how the signal source is connected to the SPD under test. Al to provide a figure.
Alan Rebock said that the reference to the North Hills balun could be interpreted as a restraint of trade, and should be removed. The WG thought the reference would be useful, especially since most people use the North Hills balun. Mick Maytum pointed out that the reference to the North Hills balun needs to be moved to a footnote, per the IEEE style guide.
In response to Alan’s concerns, Mick supplied the following text from the IEEE Style Guide:
So it looks like it would be OK to put the North Hills reference in a footnote, with the text in paragraph 5 appended. However Al said he would check with the IEEE to make sure that the proposed footnote would be OK.
10.5.5 Resolution
At the San Diego meeting the WG voted to accept contribution WG3-6-7-10-03-004, as a replacement for clauses 7.7, 7.8, and 7.9 in the existing version of C62.36, after the changes suggested in the Discussion clause 10.6.4 of the San Diego Meeting Minutes were made.
These changes were incorporated in the contribution presented at this meeting. The issues raised in connection with this contribution need to be addressed.
10.6 Item 4 Longitudinal balance [Clause 7.10]
Al Martin has a contribution on this topic [WG3.6.7-10-03-006], but there wasn’t time to discuss it. It will be addressed at the next meeting.
10.7 New tests
10.7.1 Cable discharge
Mike Hopkins submitted a contribution discussing cable discharge, which was to be rewritten as an annex. No contribution yet.
10.7.2 GDT oscillation
Mick Maytum and Wolfgang Oertel submitted a contribution on GDT oscillation, but there wasn’t time to discuss it. It will be addressed at the next meeting.
10.7.3 Intermodulation
Following the meeting Al and Mick had a conversation about the intermodulation test Mick was tasked to provide a contribution for. Intermodulation is really a system test, and as such probably doesn’t belong in this standard. However as Mick pointed out, the primary cause of intermodulation in a protector is likely to be a voltage-variable capacitance, such as exists in solid-state devices. Mick will consider rewriting the capacitance clause 7.5 in C62.36, to include a discussion of how a voltage-variable capacitance could cause intermodulation
10.8 Post-meeting discussion
After the meeting was over, Al and Mick discusses intermodulation. Intermodulation is really a system test, and perhaps not appropriate for C62.36. But the propensity of a protector to cause intermodulation effects could be evaluated. The element in a protector most likely to cause intermodulation is a voltage-variable capacitance, such as is present in a semiconductor junction. We have a test for capacitance [clause 7.5], and perhaps this clause could be rewritten to include a test for voltage-variable capacitance. That would at least indirectly address the intermodulation issue.
11 New Business
None
12 Contributions needed
Here is a list of the clauses in C62.36 that are still in need of revision:
7. Nonsurge performance tests ...... 6
7.3 DC series resistance test ...... 8
7.4 Standby current and insulation resistance test ...... 10
7.6 Inductance test ...... 10
7.12 Rise-and decay-time test ...... 19
8. Active performance tests ...... 21
8.1 DC-limiting-voltage test ...... 21
8.2 Impulse-limiting-voltage test ...... 24
8.5 Impulse reset test ...... 31
8.6 Current reset test ...... 31
8.7 AC life test ...... 34
8.8 Impulse life test ...... 34
8.9 Maximum single-impulse discharge test ...... 38
8.12 Environmental cycling with impulse surges test ...... 40
8.13 Environmental cycling with ac surges test ...... 41
8.14 Multiport coupling test ...... 42
I need volunteers to review these tests to see if they need updating, and then to rewrite the tests in the format we’re using for the C62.36 revision. I don’t think this is a lot of work, but I need help!
13 Action Items for next meeting
Al Martin to revise WG3-6-7-10-03-007R2 [Harmonic distortion] based on the discussion of this meeting
Al Martin to revise WG3-6-7-10-03-004 [Transmission properties] based on the discussion of this meeting
Mike Hopkins to rewrite his cable discharge test as an informative annex.
Mick Maytum to draft a contribution explaining how to test for capacitance variation with voltage [to replace clause 7.5 in C62.36]; plus explaining in the background clause how this variation could lead to intermodulation.
14 Next Meeting
Al proposed that a one-hour teleconference be held during sometime between September 20 and October 1, at the usual time of 8:00 Pacific time. Al will send out an E-mail to poll members about the best date for the meeting.
The IEEE SPDC Fall Meeting is expected to occur in November, and will likely be in Florida. We expect to have a teleconference bridge for this meeting, for those who can’t attend.
Respectfully submitted
Al Martin, Chairman
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