Logger Or Certified Forester

Is a Certified Forester Really Worth It?

What makes you & your family the most-Bidding or Percentage?

It’s really sad the way some landowners make decisions, they want to do the best for their family, but they don’t take time to think about what is said to them, or who is saying it to them; and then many of them fall for the “sales pitch”. A logger will tell you he can make you more money by paying you a percentage. He’ll tell you that when bidding on lump sum sales, he has to be careful, because he doesn’t know what the timber will cut out like. That same logger won’t bid on a forester’s bid sales, so that way the landowners can’t really tell where he stands in fair competition with other markets around him. You never really know for sure if he is telling you the truth, unless you think about what he is saying and doing by his actions.

A lot of landowners are falling for the “veneer stressed” sales pitch. Veneer markets are great now, $7,000 per thousand for the best cherry! Average stumpage values (the landowner’s net), which include veneer, range from $150-$2,000 per thousand. Most landowners don’t realize that their veneer logs represent only 2-10% of their total sale value. If a logger stresses the veneer, it can look like a forester’s net to a landowner is less than what the logger can get for you, but he is not telling you the whole story.

Some loggers even go so far as to waste lower value logs, by leaving them in the woods, to keep their average per thousand board foot high for comparison to a forester’s bid sales average. You and your family end up losing that log’s income rotting in the woods. Poor utilization ends up costing you money out of the total sale. You can see some of the story if you look at what is left in the woods, but by then it’s too late.

If landowners really did make more money through a percentage sale with just a logger, then it would be cheaper for a logger to buy trees by bidding on a forester’s sales. Loggers would be bidding on every log sale out there, and winning them all the time. The truth is it is hard to buy timber and the logger can not win all the time, plus, he can not afford the high prices bidding gets landowners for their logs, therefore, he takes advantage of the much talked about, little known, high value, veneer grades for logs, saying: “I would pay you more money through my percentage method than a forester can get you on his lump sum bid sales, because of my veneer markets. Most loggers couldn’t win any bid, because they really don’t even have good markets, so they have to buy their timber a cheaper way, get the landowner to fall for a sales pitch, which allows the logger to pay a percentage, the lesser amount.

Can you imagine any buyer paying the seller top dollar, when he knows he’s the only one that’s bidding? Some loggers are offering fair amounts, but do you really think that a logger would try to get you to sell trees to him so that he would have to pay you the most money or the lowest amount of money he thought he could get away with? It’s obvious, isn’t it? He would try and convince you to make a deal with him so that he would pay you less money than another method of marketing, but make you think that you will receive more through him. Some loggers will not bid on lump sum standing timber because they’re afraid of the public knowing their offers. If they openly bid on standing timber, the landowners can see where that logger’s price and that logger’s marketing abilities compare in a list of people who are experienced in buying standing timber, their bidding may be embarrassing, therefore, they don’t bid at all. Then you can not prove that what they said was wrong, if they don’t bid.

Consider your forester’s services: he has a 4 year degree from a forestry college, he marks your trees so that you have a crop now and in the future for your family and his, he measures every tree so that you know how many and how much of every species is being sold, he recommends and supervises your contracts, the total value of all of the timber is paid before the first tree is cut, he adds to the value that you and your family receive for your forest products on your property thru the competition he creates for your trees. Your forester also adds protection through a performance bond, insurance, and contract.

A logger cuts what he can make money on now, and leaves what he can’t sell. In other words you and your children are left with the junk growing to deal with some day later. Your forester works for you and your family’s current and future income and wildlife values. Your forester will increase your current net income, plus his fee is an investment in the long term income as a result of cutting and leaving the correct trees for future growth and sales. A logger is good at cutting trees for him, a forester represents you, to mark the right tree to sell now and leave the right tree to grow for your future.

If one logger’s market were always the highest, he would always be the highest bidder. There are so many attitudes involved in bidding on standing timber that it is important for you, as a landowner, to take advantage of those attitudes in the competition in the marketplace, which change weekly. The bidding results in our office change from week to week, even for the same species of trees on the same woodlot. Stumpage prices are dependent upon the way the logger feels about the products that are marked in that area, on that particular day. One guy will bid high one week and next week he’ll be on the bottom of the list. Many weeks the range from high to low bid is more than $40,000 or more than 40%! It’s fun for us here in the office to follow the history of certain bidders, especially our regular bidders. Our most consistent bidders only win 10-15% of the bids that they participate in. The losing bids average 25% - 40% below the top bid! Often, this weeks loser was the winner the week before! Very interesting, that’s why it is important for you, the landowner, to make sure that you let as many reputable loggers know about your trees as you can. One week they feel great about your timber and the next week they think it’s junk and the trees didn’t change at all. Every week the losers complain about how much the winner paid, and the complaint is usually from last week’s winner!

If you really want to find out if the logger cares for you and your family, ask him to bid on the up-coming timber sale of a neighbor. I would be willing to bet that you would hear all sorts of excuses like, “I can’t come up with that kind of money all at once”. Tell him you could work out some sort of payment schedule based upon removals, and I would bet you that he would still not bid. Does this tell you who he cares about the most? Does the logger or sawmill represent you or themselves? If he was the best market, he would be the highest bid, so what’s he afraid of… the landowner learning the truth.

All loggers try to buy timber by percentage and they all complain about bidding on timber through a forester. That should tell you something. A logger’s actions speak louder than his words. If he bids, he really is trying to pay you the most money. If he doesn’t bid, he is hoping that he can buy your timber for less money, by paying you a percentage. Some loggers really don’t have excellent markets, if all the logger has to come up with is a percentage of what he grosses, he really doesn’t have anything invested, so what does he have to lose.

Bidding shows everyone who is willing to pay the most that day for your trees. Bidding is not an easy way for a logger to buy his timber, it’s is a hard way to buy timber. But bidding really does make the landowner the most money for their trees. Your trees are a commodity necessary to run an industry. Bidding increases the competition for your trees, and discovers their highest possible value for you and your family today. 7/1/14

Rod Jones, ACF, SAF, Certified Forester

Northeast Timber Services

20 Garden St., Walton, NY13856

607-865-5917

607-865-8387 fax

Catskills, Southern Tier, PA, & NJ:

Adirondacks, Mohawk Valley, Leatherstocking Area