MINUTES OF RAeS
HUMAN FACTORS CABIN CREW STANDING GROUP MEETING (15)
24th June 2010
CAA, AVIATION HOUSE, GATWICK
Present:
Ms Sarah Skelton (SS) Plane Training (Chair)
Ms Elizabeth Albone (EA) easyJet (Secretary)
Mrs Janice Fisher (JF) CAA
Ms Jacqui Gough (JGo) BA
Ms Donna Malone (DM) BA
Mr Paolo Patitucci (PP) Cyprus Airways
Ms Joanne Green (JGr) JG Aviation Cnslt.
Mr Malcolm Rusby (MR) TAG Aviation
Mr David Turner (DT) Monarch
Ms Sarah Skinner (SSk) Invited guest
Apologies:
Ms Karen Bath (KB) CTC
Ms Helen Reynolds (HR) Astraeus
Mr Danny Barraclough (DB) Thomas Cook
Mr Rick Heybrook (RH) Loftwork
Mr Carey Edwards (CE) LMQ
Mr Martin Evans (ME) Global Air Training
1. Apologies received as above, SS welcomed returning members and apologised for bringing meeting forward by one week due to leave booked on 1st July. Despite numerous attempts to make contact with him, SS has not heard from Martin Evans and he has not attended any recent meetings. DM & JGo believe he is now at Thomson as CRM Manager. On the basis that has not met the criteria stated in the constitution and not kept in the contact, it was decided by all that his membership from the group has expired.
1.1 SS requested that the group contacts list was re circulated after the
meeting.
2. Minutes of Last Meeting
2.1 Aircraft Manufacturer Representative
SS said that due to time spent on organising the conference she had not yet approached Lee Palmer to see if she was interested in joining the group. SS updated to say no progress has been made on this action.
2.2 Helios Report
There was a HFG meeting on the 10th Dec. The final report has been sent to the group. There are a number of protocols which must be followed before it can be published in Aerospace International and other publoications. Full report to also be published on RAeS website and links so conference attendees can access it. As far as the CCSG is concerned, we believe we have followed up this report during the recent conference.
2.3 Update from RSSB
SS advised group that the RSSB have now designed their own version of NOTECHS and plan to implement the system this year.
SS updated that they have opted to use an incredibly detailed behaviour marker system and that if any group members wanted to see this she will ask if Kate Bonsall from the RSSB would be happy for us to have copies of this.
2.4 SMS and DVD/Video swap shop - CRMSG
SS advised that this was discussed at the HFG meeting on the 10th Dec.
It is still not yet in place due to some technical and management of copyright issues. The aim is for these to be ‘streamed’ but that does mean that if they were to be used in a training session the PC must have internet access. SS also advised that the dvd the Standing Group produced (‘Who Needs CRM?’) and 2 possible additional dvds from Danny Barraclough had been contributed on behalf of the group.
SS updated that this is still in the process of being tested and suggested that this was removed as a future agenda item.
2.5 Fire Working Group
JF advised group that this work was in progress.
JF updated that the FODCOM has now been published (19/10/ Cabin Crew Fire & Smoke Training) as a result of the data collected and the CAA are actively auditing against this FODCOM.
2.5 Proposed publication of HF issues
SS advised this is an agenda item for this meeting
2.6 Conferences
SS confirmed that the Emergency Response Conference on the 28th April has been deferred until October 2010.
SS thanked all members who had contacted speakers for the Emergency Response Conference and the group for the time and effort given to assist with the planning of this.
Feedback is an agenda item for this meeting
SS advised that the Emergency Response Conference is on the 6th October at Hamilton Place.
Action – SS to ASK Barry Neal if Standing Group Members can attend
3 Membership Changes
(SS)The constitution states the types of members which the group should consist of. Martin Evans is not responding or attended last few meetings.
Rick Heybrook has resigned from the group. Rick’s resignation now leaves the group without technical support, in particular with updating the Standing group page on the RAeS website. Sarah will establish with Rick how we can obtain technical support without a specific member of the group having this expertise.
JF suggested that the group asks the RAeS (Vicky) who can update and help us develop the website on our behalf when required.
Action – JGO to speak with Vicky White at RAeS to ask if this is something the RAeS are able/willing to offer
An idea was also suggested for the group to have one meeting a year at Hamilton Place.
4 Member Application – Sharon Skinner
Sharon Skinner has been invited by SS as the group is without an academic member and SS thought Sharon met the criteria well as she has a CRM and Cabin Crew background.
SSk then explained to the group her experience in industry to date:
· CC on Boeing 707 for South African Airways for 30 years (including 12 years on Jumbo)
· BA Airline Management Development Course, working in all areas of the business to understand all aspects of an airline.
· Psychology degree
· Post graduate degree in human factors
· Worked on research project – communication between CC and Flight Crew (Dryden/Kegworth/Sioux City)
· Worked on research project – Sterile Flight Deck (effects on communication)
· Accredited CRMI
· 6 months at GB/easyJet as CC
5 Feedback from Conference
JF and SS received very positive feedback following the conference.
Panos was specifically mentioned numerous times.
JF collated all feedback from forms on behalf of the group.
Cost was mentioned by some as being very reasonable.
Attendance was 125
SS still communicating with Panos and he is offering to do his presentation
again.
JF said that Steve Jarvis had done a presentation at the CRMIE ground
course that would be valuable to be represented in the future.
6 Qinetiq – Possible Hypoxia Training
SS & JGr went to Qinetiq to look at the altitude chamber on the 18th June.
They are currently offering one day hypoxia training (and associated medical) for £850 per person. SS & JGr were able to get this down to £350 per person.
A discussion then followed on whether members thought airlines would be interested and how much they would be willing to pay.
SS also suggested that if we were able to provide Qinetiq with customers group members could potentially get a discounted rate/freebie.
Qinetiq require a minimum of 12 delegates to run the course.
Action – JGr to contact operators for interest on behalf of Qinetiq (using all contacts group have for Cabin Crew Training Managers)
Action – JGo to speak to RAeS regarding possibility of having a group e-mail address to send this type of communication out and also an e-mail template including RAeS logo.
7 Dealing with An Unpiloted Aircraft
SS delivered presentation she had designed around potential training CC would need to have to ‘minimise loss of life’ in the event of double pilot incap, linking in with Panos’s thesis and content of other presentations from the conference.
EA advised that at easyJet a Pilot had produced a guide on ‘How to use the Radio if both Pilots are unconscious’ but this was not yet in the manuals or being trained. The discussion/presentation involved how viable/feasible would it be to train a cabin crew member to communicate with a remote pilot ff dual PI in order to guide an a/c away from inhabited areas for example.
Action – EA to send this guide to SS
8 RAeS CCSG Website/Bulletins to Industry
JF suggested that the AAIB Bulletin provides interesting articles which could inspire content for a bulletin from the group to industry.
Example given was an a/c evacuation where a crew member SOPs assigns responsibility for 2 doors for 1 crew member.
In this incident doors 1 were not directly opposite each other.
Door 1 left was used during the evacuation but no pax evacuated via door 1 right despite the crew member managing to get the door open.
This has prompted a proposed FODCOM on this issue (crowd control and door proficiencies to include specific training for this type of SOP).
EA suggested that this could also be a good place to incorporate SS work on an unpiloted aircraft and hypoxia training.
The group thought that the first edition of such a news letter should be sent out electronically with an explanation of how frequently these will be published and that all future editions will be accessible via the RAeS CCSG website page. JF offered to commence work on this.
The group e-mail address and template once sent up (see action agenda item 3) can also be used for this purpose.
Action – ALL. Send ideas for input into bulletin to JF by mid Sept (17th)
Action – SS is going to explore further the idea of ‘selling’ the Conference.
9 AOB
DM asked all group members if they would be interested in a trip to the Isle of Wight on a RIB boat in Sept.
This was met with a resounding ‘yes’ from all attending group members!
DM said she would be in touch in with more info
Next meeting: 14th October 2010
HFCCSG Meeting 15 – 24/06/10