FACL and FUDL Breakout

Ballroom A

March 11, 2004

0800 - 1200

John Venaglia – Food Contract

*Synopsis of new food contract on

General Information:

  • Personnel dealing with these contracts should have formal training in contracting.
  • The Food and Shower contract is a Performance Based contract.
  • Not called the Blue Book any more – Food Book and Shower Book
  • Appendix F of Food Book – inspection section, explains in more detail how to assess exceptional performance. Performance measured in quality and customer satisfaction.
  • The contracts have incentives as well as disincentives.
  • One page evaluation/survey to be filled out by firefighters to measure customer satisfaction – take to Logistics chief for approval and signature and than attached to invoice. The survey form is suitable documentation. This is for every hot meal served. The form or sample size has not been drafted yet.
  • If average is not at least a “3” than the contract will not be renewed. Good contractors will like it – they believe they are doing above average work and will get rewarded for such.
  • Spending $40 to $50 Million on Food Contracts last year.
  • Three prices for breakfast and dinners served. Over 80,000 meals a lower price than 50,000 to 80,000, which is a lower rate than less than 50,000 meals, served. Average for last year was 70,000 to 80,000 meals. The meal count applies only per unit and not per caterer.
  • Meal prices between 1998 and 1999 jumped 21% - amounted to $10 million. Camp crew increased 15% and the salads were 5%.
  • Minimum in the past as been for 150 – and contract never covered tents for more, but we interpreted that. If on the schedule they need to provide it and we must pay the daily rate. If we find a better rate in town than we can rent that. The new “minimum” sitting is now at 175. If we add the new tents they are still required to bus those tables and eating area.
  • Hand washing stations are now part of the contract – there is a daily fee and the purpose is that there is a daily rate so if it is inoperable that they are deducted the daily fee. Mirrors and outlets are optional, 400 gallons and 400 gallons of grey – same specs came from shower (minimum of 4-sinks).
  • Daily rate – food contracts is not the same as restaurant meal costs.
  • CDF type kitchens (MKU’s) are very comparable to such caterers as Blagg’s – they subcontract to Abel’s, buy expensive food, make 200 more meals than the FUDL will order.
  • It is the contractor’s responsibility, under the new contract is to handle dust abatement within the tented eating areas and the Government’s responsibility outside the eating area.
  • Performance Ratings, Section F:
  • Quality and quantity – exceptional (5%), satisfactory and very good (scheduled price), marginal (-5%), and unsatisfactory (-10% with form on non-compliance) – need to inform John Vegnalia immediately, especially with 2 unsatisfactory in a row.
  • Exceptional is defined as exceeding government standards – taste, freshness and a concurrence from Logistics Chief. If there is a problem – need to assess if it actually had an impact. Incentive has a “per hot meal” and at the end of an incident performance review. For lunches there is no incentive or disincentive, but you can write him or her up for non-compliance and than take a value away – be fair. If no agreement with contractor and you than write it up and send up both versions to Contracting Officer.
  • Satisfactory or very good – scheduled price only. Normal course of business. Taste is of industry “norm.” Variety is maintained.
  • Marginal does not met, food safety, authorized change in menu changes and timeliness
  • Unsatisfactory does not met contract standards and well below normal. Meals have called sickness in camp and concurred by Logistics Chief. Unsatisfactory is grounds for default.
  • NICC is your contact for 24-7 coverage (John Vegnalia - cell # (208)
  • No A Commercial Meat (over 30 months old), Brahma, Holstein, no meat with Soy as byproduct in the meat.
  • USDA Grade “A” poultry (within the shield, actually inspected) vs. USDA “A” outside the shield where it has an inspector sampling the whole rather than the individual birds. We are paying 30% more per bird for the A within the shield. In Section C, 5 does not require the shield.
  • If there is 150 people and expected to be that many for at least 72 hours than the Government is obligated to use the National Contract.
  • When does the 150 kicks in – when a need for a mobile kitchen and the head count is over 150 people.
  • With a mobile caterer on-site we need to get lunches from them. The caterer may subcontract to someone to make lunches but we will only pay for the cost of the lunch plus 15%. Get the invoice from the caterer to get “delivered” cost to determine the 15%. If the off-site lunch price with 15% exceeds the scheduled price we only pay the scheduled price. If the contractor cannot make the lunches than you have the option to go to someone else to make lunches.
  • The “lite” lunch – simply eliminated the second entrée (or one of the two entrees to be determined by the FUDL).
  • Alternate Unit – one primary unit per location, although may consider alternate unit to support primary unit. This gives the option to bring in an alternate unit versus bringing in another kitchen.
  • Additional equipment is a need determined by Logistics Chief, negotiated with contractor, and notify/negotiate with NICC.
  • Fresh brewed coffee (high quality Columbian or better) no concentrate. An exception may be needed for spike camp short turnarounds.
  • Salad bar does not count as a meal; this also includes the breakfast bar.
  • The contractor must abide by DOT regulations. Interpreted that we do not have to state all laws, as that is inherent in the contract. If we are aware that something is going and do nothing about it than we could be liable.
  • Supplementals – no list exists. May order from the contractor and his supplier and pay 12% above the invoice price. What to avoid people filling up their thermos in the kitchen area. Verify with approved supplemental list. Are not obligated to purchase supplemental from contractor. Acceptable supplementals is policy driven – may need to negotiate with agency administrator.
  • Can still handle new contract with existing invoices.
  • Work up front on denoting bag lunches. Brown bags are for regular and white bags are for veggies. May need to denote an “L” on brown or white bag to denote “Lite” lunches.
  • Contract is expected to be awarded no later than late June/August. This time frame includes the possibility for up to 2 protest sessions.

Issues:

The breakout group felt it was critical to keep kitchen with contract camp crew, even though it supposedly is an extra $10 million cost. Cannot assume that the entire $10 Million is directly related to the camp crew addition in the contract.

Need the “technical” experts to provide a “Government Estimate” for cost per day for sink units – measured in $ per individual sink. Is $50 per sink (e.g. 4-sink unit would be $200 a day)?

Service supply Plan – Logistic individuals need to stop in to their administrative unit and meet with CO to check and validate the cost of logistical items in the Service Supply Plan – provides them suggested pricing in a “Government Estimate” or other form of documentation.

Contracting Officers may request logistical input by accessing the logistical website at

Need to work out the alternate unit vs. additional equipment (follow-up for John Vegnalia and NICC).

Confirm that the contractor must abide by DOT regulations and it is their responsibility not the Governments.

FACL and FUDL Breakout

Ballroom A

March 11, 2004

1200 – 1545

Melinda – Shower Contract

General Information:

  • 28 units of 65 units were selected based upon best value (past experience, cost, etc.)
  • Blank designations – Log Chief are COR and responsible for FACL and COTR.
  • Need to have at least COR Level I&II if USFS, otherwise depending on your agency requirements for delegation of authority for COR.
  • Need to document why you choose to use something other than the National Contract shower. There are no minimum numbers
  • 30 Designated Dispatch Points.
  • Performance Based Contract.
  • Ask contractor for vendor contracts for additional offered. Each contractor has what was offered which now has become there minimum
  • Must have a modification from CO if there equipment is different than what is stated in the contract.
  • Contact a cost analysis for using the shower’s potable vs. an EERA potable. You need to clock the hours and document odometer readings to calculate the time & mileage.
  • On Federal fires it is safest to order a shower from NICC and wait for a “not able to fill.”
  • Not obligated to use this contract on all risk incidents – the language says “wildland fires.”
  • Contractor is responsible for dust abatement for shower area (sink, waiting areas), otherwise it is the Government’s responsibility.
  • Fiscal WILL NOT PAY without the second continuation page.
  • We are responsible for quality assurance and the contractor is responsible for quality control.
  • The request may be cancelled at any time.
  • CWN vendor always gets released first. IF a unit is to be demobbed, document rational on why you keep the unit you did and supply to CO.
  • Must document intermittent use and document clock hours in Block #25 on 1276-D continuation sheet.
  • Must have a spill containment kits, so check for other safety items.
  • Check contracts to assure contractor has brought items they said they would have when they bid on the contract.
  • Be reasonable when arriving at deductions – don’t ask for deductions for things that can be fixed – be realistic, as things will break.
  • Use the form of non-compliance in the back of the contract and submit to CO. Tell than where they are failing and the reference in the contract and get contractor to sign. If they don’t want to sign it that’s okay – send it to CO any way.
  • The contractor is required to bring past performance evaluations with them during the course of the season. Must write up an evaluation prior to their departure from the incident.
  • Melinda is aiming to have books to the cache by end of March to get printed – expected to take 6-8 weeks to print. You will need to go to NIFC website to keep up on any changes/modifications. You can still use the old forms, as we don’t want to waste these forms.
  • If usage exceeds 75 per head than an additional 50% will be paid.
  • Intermittent does not include using the potable to fill up canteens or other containers.
  • Re-location has changed to $575. Relocation involves change in location as assigned to that same incident.
  • Document actual mileages in Block #26 on continuation sheet (1276-C). They are required to keep a logbook by DOT – a good place to verify.
  • If service is cancelled, a minimum of 2 days of usage shall be paid.
  • Section J has not changed. Water sample needs to be none in a reasonable amount of time. If you don’t feel the water sample is not timely put it on their performance evaluation. They need to keep a water log and cleaning schedule – ask them for it. If they said it would be food or potable grade, than they better have it. Again ask them for their contract to make sure they have what they say they have.

Issues:

  • Look into a shower minimum, such as exists with the Food contract.
  • To assess the use of contractor’s potable water truck, try to note on invoice that the vehicle was used even though mileage was not charged.
  • Melinda is asking for pre-use inspections on all the vendors, as the CO was unable to conduct inspections before releasing the contract. Mary Fields has the inspection checklist. The vendor should also have the checklist.

FACL and FUDL Breakout

Ballroom A

March 11, 2004

1600 – 1700

Martin and Vicki

Last Year’s Bin List (2003):

Insert list that Vicki read off at the start of this session.

Melinda – look at updating the potable water standards and submitting to CO.

This Year’s List (2004):

National Electric Code 215 – is galvanized pipe as electrical conduit. This is not legal (if not UL listed). Health & Safety issue. There are ways to mitigate by using flexible connections – but got to do it right.

EERA on hand wash units to set up a travel cost vs. paying them a daily rate. Hot Topic button on website (Finance) to set up fair and equitable rates.

Will we have the ability to acquire security from National Park Service. Parks are extremely short handed due to Homeland Security demands and likely NPS will not be available. Region 2 USFS said they would be available.

There is a concern over the availability and future training for all logistic personnel.

A lot of discussion of the need to have logistics expertise to provide input into the shower and food contracts, but the money and home unit commitment is not there to assure quality and administration of contracts.

For any questions for the logistics, send notes to Cherie Sanders for distribution. Logistics agreed to synthesize input to pass onto Food and Shower contracts.

Improve sack lunches. Action item from 2003 Logistics Workshop was to have Sharkey from Missoula, Mary Fields, Logistics Chief representative, FUDL representative, and COTR representative to come up with sack lunches that will meet the needs of both Type 1 & 2 (firefighters so to include engines, etc) crews.

Like to receive updates or feedback on resolution of appeals, claims, etc to learn from past actions so we do not duplicate them in the future. Need to share that with all logistic personnel.

Will it be possible for use to do shift tickets instead on hard copies? Seems like we are duplicating work.

Take the initiative to gather good camp locations, land-use agreements, grease disposal, grey water, and potable water sites prior to needing it. Will be so much more useful than wasting so much time chasing it down when the incident is occurring. Consider developing a database accessible on the website.

Develop or maintain a national list of qualified people in FACL, FUDL, and other logistic positions – should be ROSS.

Incident Management Teams should look at having at least 50% instead of all them in Operations. We talk about the concern over not enough trainees, but we don’t back it up on actually IMT rosters because “it is too expensive.” Stand your ground and fight for want you need!

We appear to be making barriers to getting young people introduced to the fire camp and incident experience. The Red Card qualification is making it difficult to give people exposed. The time frame to get to be able to get on incidents takes a few years to complete. A bypass to this is to hire AD’s with less experience but the assignment does not count for them and an opportunity is foregone for those that want to get experience.

Change Position Description’s to gain “Other Work as Assigned” to address or allow for fire support at least 10% of the time. Need agency support and NWCG needs to get more involved in this. This may include all risk assignments.

Where is the Smart Card System? We need the system, can we force the issue so we can get the Smart Card system going.

We need to work harder on mentoring/pushing people into fire positions that best suit them and the fire organization. Remember our motto of last year – “Who is your replacement?”

The demographics of the younger workforce has changed, and the interest is not really there. In addition the funding has been reduced especially in the form of training dollars. The culture growing up in fire has changed. There is not an incentive to do fire – work and demands from home unit are not supportive to those on fires. Line officers look at only targets/goals not on fire support. Need to develop evaluation criteria specific to the State and National Land managers and back down the chain of command to make it part of their evaluation criteria.

Smart Cards are at least 3 years out. We should look at trying to make the badges work. Another option is too utilize the Red Card with photo ID and than apply an incident specific barcode label to affix to the back.

A lot of discussion on contracts – let’s bring people back to explain the good and bad of the summer’s contracts.

The camp crew with the kitchen is critical to maintain as part of the caterer’s responsibility. DON’T TAKE IT OUT OF THE CONTRACT!!!

John Vengalia has come with a lot of energy, but lacks a lot of understanding of the basics of the incident base camp environment. Can’t slay the dragon, without know what and where the dragon is. Why isn’t Melinda and John utilizing the COTR’s for technical expertise – maybe hire them or pay 50% of their wages. John and Melinda need to get out to fire camps more frequently.

Enough with the website – get on the phone and communicate one-on-one.

Let’s try to pull a core Logistics group to provide input for Melinda and John.

Establish EERA price consistencies with Regional costs adjustments.