DrummondIsland Writing Team Meeting

November 7, 2011

Attending:Chris Cantway, Pat Brower, Patrick Kelly, Dave Jentoft, James Kelley, Steven Walker, Bill Hepler, Denny Bailey, Karen Rodock, Frank Sasso, David Bardsley, Brad Kuusinen, Terry Minzey, Kelly Siciliano Carter, Autumn Feldpausch, Paul Hammers, Dan Moore, Penney Melchoir, Jim Radabaugh, Rob Katona, Laneen Hoover, Greg Andrews, Jordan Burroughs

10:00am: Facilitator- begins meeting

DNR Staff – presents timeline on DI writing team recommendation implementation.

DNR Staff – explains Governor’s Assistant Greg Andrews will be present for part of the meeting.

DNR Staff – presentation on legal sideboards for island.

DNR Staff – presents on non-motorized recreation.Writing Team Member – believes more can be added to water based discussion, freighter watching. Tonon-water based,winter camping, dog sledding, trails not subject to motorized vehicles.Writing Team Member- Water access is being considered for Iron Man competitors who want to use those areas for training and/or races. If these are activities the island wants to embrace there are several things that would need to be looked at, EMTs access etc. Sees Iron Man race as general access issue. Facilitator– is this more of an island tourism issue? Writing Team Member – yes feel it may be. Writing Team Member - by proposing changes to a recommendation you’ll be affecting other recommendations.DNR Staff – Geocasheing trails cannot be blocked, those are the only stipulations.Writing Team Member – Feel we need to discuss camping platforms. Information on remote camping – idea is to create 4 platforms: 1st will be placed at Mayer island, 2ndNorth End, 3rdGlen Cove and 4thSouth Side.All on public land. Each platform would be approx 18’ x 20’ fitting current guidelines state has set. Keeping them 3’ above high water. These will be mainly for hunting, though can be used by fishers, kayakers’, canoes’, etc. most all recreational activities. MareIsland location is the closest to HarborIsland access. All locations will be inspected bi-annually. These sites are for areas where there are no campsites available. This site is near marble head and also camping and hiking area. All can be built without having to cut tress more than an inch circumference. Provides information on EZ Launch access; handicap accessible. Believes if we get the remote tent campgroundsin place could end up with international paddling. Has been in contact with several individuals and this could lead to big things for the island.Writing Team Member – what are platforms made of? Writing Team Member – Wood. Writing Team Member – what do you do for trash in these areas? People’s crap?Writing Team Member – everything that’s brought in has to be taken with you. We are putting them in specific spots so we have spots to go to so we know where the messes will be to clean up.Writing Team Member – who would pay for the clean-up? Writing Team Member – the same people who have to clean up after these pigs no matter where they camp. If we know of specific people who will be using these areas and where they are headed we will be able to know if someone goes missing as well. Writing Team Member- should outhouses be available? If people keep using these sites there could become sanitary issues. Writing Team Member – people have to take out everything they bring in. Governor’s Assistant – gives some info on an in ground toilet system. Writing Team Member – all this is trying to do is facilitate room for these people. Writing Team Member– have we really looked at how many people this could bring in? and what kind of money we could possibly bring in from this? Somewhere along the line we need to be able to measure the amount these will bring in. Writing Team Member – the money for this project will come from grants alone. Two years ago kayaking was the biggest non- motorized means of transportation. Writing Team Member – not representing DITA, but this is also going to make it a better place for residents. Make this a destination, then they come. If you look at the whole thing you’re looking at making this an attractive place to be. If you don’t build a latrine, people will be leaving waste in the woods. Writing Team Member – a female kayak group brought baggies to take their waste with them. They loved the kayaking and hope to bring others in the future. We did have to bring them food at one time, but these women did an impressive job of packing for this 3 day trip. Writing Team Member – Could you look at the number of kayaks in the area and see an increase?We don’t necessarily need solid numbers? Don’t think we can have a tracking system and a cost assessment; we need to just go forward with it. Writing Team Member – still concerned about the garbage and fecal waste. This kayaking route that already exists what is to keep people from launching from different areas? Writing Team Member – women have come to the island and stayed and eaten here because of these routes they’ve heard about. Writing Team Member- each of the areas on the map (within the paddlers legend) you see are kayaking areas. Writing Team Member – likes the idea of some sort of management for the waste at these sites? DNR Staff - there is a leave-no-trace option which is well known, if youwant to avoid building an infrastructure.Facilitator– let’s break up and write down the concerns on the surrounding flip- charts. Want freighter viewing added to flipcharts? Writing Team Member – no there isn’t any DNR owned lands that will allow for this, it is mainly private. Facilitator– do we want Iron Man information? Writing Team Member – No feel if these platforms are taken care of then the iron man things will just progress and fall in place.Facilitator– write on the charts and break for lunch.

12:45 Facilitator– Gather flipcharts. Starting with camping (platform); two things written on notepads – latrines and fire pits. Writing Team Member – Organizations outside of us have to approve of these as well. Were told several years ago that no fire pits and no latrines were allowed at these sites. Writing Team Member – isn’t main thing with camping being able to have a fire? Why would that be shutdown? Writing Team Member – DNR originally told us no, not sure on the reasoning. Writing Team Member –If you don’t have a pit they will build one without safety protection. It makes more sense to have a fire pit where people are able to have a them. Writing Team Member – Chippewa Co. Health Department has say in this as well. Provides recommendation: The four sites for remote tent camping, known as 1) Mare Island, 2) North end Site, 3) Glen Cove Site and 4) South Side site and the installation of EZ-launch site at Maxton Bay located at Old State campground be supported by the DNR and this group. Writing Team Member – if EZ-Launch is included worried it may not process. Should EZ-Launch be a separate recommendation? Writing Team Member – This is a draft at this point. The end is left too open ended. DNR Staff – possibly explain that there are platforms involved with the recommendation as well. Writing Team Member – Needs to say “one platform at four sites…” Dimensions are approx: 18’ x 40’ or 20’ x 40’. Writing Team Member- is it worth mentioning grant funding? Writing Team Member – further language “installed through public and private grant partnerships” Writing Team Member – does not feel that needs to be in the recommendation, rather the rationale would be a better place for it. Also feels EZ-Launch portion should be a second recommendation. Andhandicapped should be involved in recommendation. DNR Staff – “The installation of an American Disabilities Act (ADA)compliant launch site (EZ-Launch site) at MaxtonBay located at OldState campground…”Writing Team Member – would like to return to first recommendation “North end Site (known as Grand Marais)” and “South Side Site (east of Long Point)”Writing Team Member – “ remote tent camping by hunters and all sportspersons…”DNR Staff – “MaxtonBay boating access site”. Writing Team Member – should we state that if received we want to turn it over to the state. Writing Team Member – feel that is more in the weeds then you want to be. Current recommendation: Group recommends one raised camping platform at each of the four sites for remote tent camping by hunters and all sportspersons, known as 1) Mare Island, 2) North end Site (known as Grand Marais), 4) Glen Cove Site and 4) South Side site (east of Long Point).

The group recommends: The installation of an ADA compliant launch site (EZ-Launch) at MaxtonBay boating access site be supported by the DNR. Writing Team Member – add “if funding is obtained by the Drummond Island Tourist Association, the group recommends…”Writing Team Member – add if funding is obtained for first recommendation as well. In rationale would like to include general map and 4 main site maps.Writing Team Member- should EZ-Launch be elaborated upon? Say kayaker launch site? Writing Team Member – recommends “be installed” in first recommendation.

GROUP AGREES!!!

If funding is obtained by the Drummond Island Tourist Association, the group recommends one raised camping platform be installed at each of four sites for remote tent camping by hunters and all sportspersons, known as 1) Mare Island, 2) North end Site (known as Grand Marais), 3) Glen Cove Site and 4) south side site (east of Long Point).

If funding is obtained by the DrummondIsland Tourist Association, the group recommends the installation of ADA compliant paddling launch site (EZ-launch) at MaxtonBay boating access site.

If funding is obtained by the Drummond Island Tourist Association, the group recommends the installation of an ADA compliant paddling launch site (EZ-launch) at MaxtonBay boating access site.

Facilitator– moving onto water access: Writing Team Member provided strawman text. “Group recommends the DNR identify and provide additional water access locations in more remote sections of the island. Writing Team Member – have a problem with having a kayak trail north, often too muddy to access.Writing Team Member – if you send people up there during the wrong time of the year we may be putting people up there in dangerous situations. Writing Team Member – its being used a lot right now (around first lake area). Between first and second lake is an area we won’t mark because it’s too dangerous. Writing Team Member- need to consider the effects this will have on the wildlife/ resources that we are trying to protect and view as well. Some of our activities may lead to unintended consequences. Writing Team Member – hate having to protect people from themselves. We should put the access sites there and let people do their thing. Writing Team Member– some areas are just too dangerous. Writing Team Member – we can allow people to go in there, but we don’t have to encourage them to route through there as well. DNR Staff- also agrees, we do not have to encourage this route. Writing Team Member – this is already promoted so why are we focusing on it. Writing Team Member – not the marking. Writing Team Member – if you put a marked trail there you’re encouraging them to take that next step. If they do it on their own it’s their own issue and we won’t be held accountable. Writing Team Member – kayakers comment on the weeds out there, is it possible to do some kind of weed control that would prove beneficial. Writing Team Member- the pristine-ness of the river is the naturalness of it. Don’t feel we should be messing with mother nature. Could not live with de-weeding natural species. Writing Team Member – the dam at Potagannissing proved an ineffective tool when first implement. In the 2000s that system was then converted to current spillway system, so it is now managing itself through natural systems. Part of the reason it was originally converted to this was because it could not be controlled prior. Now it’s under natural system fluctuation. Writing Team Member – beaver did a good job prior to man.Current system mimics what beavers used to do as well. Facilitator– related to water access do we have a recommendation? Writing Team Member – More access allows for more options for people in the water. We are lacking access to several regions. Facilitator– you want some specifics? Writing Team Member- would like remote sections (like Glen Cove, Bass Cove, and Big Shoal beach) Writing Team Member – thought heard concerns about how much pressure certain areas get, traffic etc. I know you’re concerned about remote access possibilities. If you create more access then there will be more pressure put on those areas. Writing Team Member – would it be better to say north, south, east or west? Writing Team Member – I’m not questioning the sites, I’m just providing some food for thought. Writing Team Member- on the south side of the island there really isn’t any access we would like access, perhaps Writing Team Member was focusing more on land access issues. Writing Team Member – e.g. Warners Cove. Not Big Shoal beach. Writing Team Member – DITA will not be putting money up for this recommendation. Writing Team Member – concern: worried that someone will go out there and hear an ATV go by and complain… if that happens which of the recreational activities will take precedence? Concerned about making non-motorized recreational access to a motorized area and causing conflicts. Writing Team Member – Are you asking for roads? Docks? Boat launch? Bathrooms? Writing Team Member – need concrete boat launches. Facilitator– “in remote sections of the island”. Writing Team Member – concern that we are getting into an issue of how the land was acquired and the funding source, this will have to be considered before being able to move ahead with the specifics of these locations. Will be on a site by site basis. Writing Team Member- is there differentiation or classification for the kind of ramps needed?Writing Team Member- “20ft” or less. Writing Team Member- Gravel boat launch is better, concrete just breaks. Writing Team Member – say outboard or paddle boats. People are launching boats on private properties so the necessity of public launches is there.Writing Team Member – no need to ask for parking area leave that to DNR to design and decide on. Current recommendation: Group recommends the DNR identify and provide boat launches (gravel) for outboard and duck hunting goats in remote sections (for example, Warner’s Cove, Bass Cove, and Glen Cove) of the island. All agree.

GROUP AGREES!!!

The group recommends:

The DNR identify and provide additional boat launches (gravel) for outboard and duck hunting boats in remote sections (for example, Warner’s Cove, Bass Cove, and Glen Cove) of the island.

Facilitator– Scuba Diving: Writing Team Member – already have a grant for this, currently in the legislature with an issue on the bottom of the lake. Recommend DNR support and recommend to NOAA that buoys be allowed on deep wrecks in Great Lakes. Writing Team Member – is NOAA the proper contact/go through for this? DNR Staff – believes the shipwrecks may fall under some historical protection, may need additional permissions before being able to move forward with this one. Writing Team Member – with geocaeching capabilities do we need the buoys? Writing Team Member – yes it allows for less anchor damage. Governor’s Assistant – also provides surfacing marks so divers have depth info. Writing Team Member – seems like there are organizations already doing this, why are we trying to re-invent the wheel? Writing Team Member- that’s what we’re saying we have the grants for it, we’ve been in contact. Facilitator– is this something we want to move forward with? Writing Team Member – don’t like this, don’t like that people can come out and then take from the ships. Would like to talk to Mike Spears;Surprised that he would want this? Writing Team Member – all the information on the ships is already available,it’s all public knowledge then. Writing Team Member- do we need the DNR’s support? Writing Team Member- we need the states approval. Writing Team Member – if the DNR’s support won’t matter why move forward? DNR Staff – this is something we will have little impact on. Facilitator– Writing Team Member - wants to see it, can anyone not live with this recommendation? Deep has to be included. DNR Staff- please specify that you’re speaking about ships within DrummondIsland township. DNR Staff– you guys are saying you propose that the DNR support it, do you want to support it though? Writing Team Member – if the DNR doesn’t have jurisdiction on this why are we wasting their time?Facilitator– break

GROUP AGREES!!!

The group recommends:

The DNR support and recommend to the governing state and federal agencies that buoys be allowed on deep shipwrecks in non-shipping lanes within DrummondIslandTownship in the Great Lakes.