September 2008doc.: IEEE 802.11-08/1062r00

IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs

Minutes of the IEEE P802.11 Full Working Group
Date: 2008-09-08
Author(s):
Name / Company / Address / Phone / email
Stephen McCann / Roke Manor Research Ltd (Roke) / Old Salisbury Lane, Romsey, Hampshire, SO51 0ZN, UK / +44 1794 833341 /

IEEE 802.11 Plenary Meeting – Session #111

HiltonWaikoloaVillage, Big Island, Hawaii, USA

September 8th-12th, 2008

IEEE 802 Wireless Opening Plenary, Monday 8thSeptember 2008

Waiting for minutes from Pat Kinney

IEEE 802.11Opening Plenary, Monday 8thSeptember 2008

Presiding chair: Bruce Kraemer (Marvell Semiconductor) opened the meeting at 09:05 HST

Jon RosdahlCSR

Adrian StephensIntel Corporation UK Ltd

Stephen McCannRoke Manor Research Ltd (Roke)

There are 243 voting members of IEEE 802.11

32potential

xxnearly

130aspirants

  1. Approve/modify joint opening agenda(11-08-0937r3)
  2. Chair: Also have a slide set to assist with the meeting 11-08-0938r0
  3. The graphic has been updated since yesterday with several meeting slot changes.
  4. Chair: Any modifications
  5. No objection to the approval of the agenda
  6. July 2008 Minutes (11-08-0834r2)
  7. Review and approve joint minutes from theDenver, July 2008meeting.
  8. Secretary: Any objection to approving the July 2008 minutes by unanimous consent
  9. Moved Stephen McCann, 2nd: David Hunter
  10. Following neither discussion nor dissent these minutes were approved by unanimous consent.
  11. Attendance
  12. The chair then asked for those attending for the first time, 6 responded out of a total of 137 people in the room.
  13. Attendance (together with affiliations) at this meeting is shown in Annex A.
  14. Financials (11-08-1058r0)
  15. Jon Rosdahl (Vice-Chair)
  16. Presented various issues with the current treasury, as presented in the IEEE 802 wireless opening plenary (see above)
  17. No questions
  18. Policies and Procedures
  19. The vice-chair (Jon Rosdahl) presented the P&Ps(11-08-1061r0). This document contains all the information and links to the appropriate PatCom rules.
  20. Please review these slides for all current procedures and information together with:
  21. Patent FAQ -
  22. LoA Form -
  23. Call for essential Patents
  24. The vice chair (Jon Rosdahl) called for essential patents and there were none.
  25. No questions or statements were made.
  26. Affiliation, Anti-Trust and Ethics
  27. The following slides were presented by the WG chair:
  28. Affiliation
  29. If you do not provide your affiliation then your rights can be withdrawn. Please see: for further information.
  30. Anti-Trust
  31. Please note the following anti-trust statements
  32. Ethics
  33. Please note the following ethics statements
  34. No questions about any of this.
  35. Extra Meetings
  36. Joint meeting with VHT and 15.3c. Monday evening meeting to discuss the VHT PAR
  37. Joint meeting 802.11, co-existance with 2.4 GHz and 40 MHz channels, 15.1, 15.4.
  38. IMT-A will be discussed within IEEE 802.18 and especially coordination actibities.
  39. IMT-A meetig Tuesday PM2 (Action: send some
  40. Meeting Notices
  41. Alex Ashley has volunteered to stand in for Ganesh this week for TGaa
  42. Nancy Cam-Winget has volunteered to stand in for Terry Cole for technical editor.
  43. Stephen McCann has volunteered to stand in for TK Tan for WNGSC.
  44. VHT <6 GHz (VHTL6) Task Group
  45. Please note that 802.11ac is the name for the VHT <6GHz group. Hence this is a call for a chair and there will be an election at the Niovemebr 2008 meeting.
  46. Network
  47. Anyone had problems with the network.
  48. None noted. If you do have problems, please not the help desk outside in the foyer manned by Christiane Sahr (IEEE staff).
  49. ExCom Issues
  50. Any issues for ExCom
  51. None raise
  52. Working Group P&Ps (11-08-1060r0)
  53. Jon Rosdahl: 802 LMSC is currently reviewing P&P. AudCom (committee of the standards board) have asked for comments, and so we are required to respond with comments. I have now sent out a copy of the current template document, together with comments which arose from Sunday night’s (7th September 2008) CAC meeting. Please note that it is still subject to ExCom and LMSC comments following this meeting.
  54. Question(Q): Is the LMSC draft available.
  55. Answer(A): On the LMSC page there are some pointers, although the set from August 2008 is not currently there. I’ll ask someone to update and sort that out and then let the working group know.
  56. Chair: We’ll revisit this issue on Friday.
  57. Voting status & attendance (1007r0)
  58. Adrian Stephens (vice-chair)
  59. Please pay attention to letter ballots, as members have lost their membership since the last meeting, by not responding to them. This appeared to be especially true of LB 133. Please use the templates and follow the instructions.
  60. Please also note that the attendance PIN number (SA PIN number) is new and is different from the MyBallot system number.
  61. Q: Can we merge these two numbers please.
  62. A: Yes in theory, but I’m not sure if this will happen. Please talk to the help desk if you are trying to use your SA PIN number to access the IEEE.1x network.
  63. At this meeting there are 18 slots, and hence you need 14 slots for 75% attendance. However Friday morning counts as 2 slots, and evenings are counted as extra credit.
  64. Please let the vice-chair know if you change your email account.
  65. Q: On slide #10, you have shown 1334 non-voters.
  66. A: This comes from all the people who have attended and also those people on the MyProject system who have never attended.
  67. Q: What about the 802.11 reflector.
  68. A: There are about 1060 people on it, but I don’t count any of those for attendance purposes.
  69. Publicity
  70. Presented by the secretary (Stephen McCann).
  71. An inquiry came in from Ziff Davis media. Will produce a draft set of comments this week.
  72. Timelines
  73. Will be updated by the secretary towards the end of the week Please can all sub group chairman send timeline information to the secretary before Thursday evening.
  74. Q: Please note that the link is broken to TGaa
  75. A: Ok, this will then be updated.
  76. Editor’s Report
  77. No report, except that Nancy will lead the group this week.
  78. Status of all groups (11-08-0938r0)
  79. This is a new snapshot document which summarizes the status of all the groups. Only the highlights will be mentioned this morning.
  80. Please note that there will be award ceremonies at the November meeting for some recently published groups (TGk, TGr)
  81. IEEE 802.11mb requires a chair
  82. IEEE 802.11s may possibly get to letter ballot (LB) this week
  83. IEEE 802.11u and IEEE 802.11v may also get to LB at the end of the week.
  84. IEEE 802.11w will meet at PM1 today, not PM2 as shown on the slide.
  85. IEEE 802.11z failed their letter ballot 135, and hence will start comment resolutions this week.
  86. Comment(C): IEEE 802.11aa requires a QoS expert to attend the November meeting to help with QoS issues. If you can help, please talk to Alex Ashley. There will be 4 hours of joint meetings in the November meeting on TSPECs and QoS, so some material will be need to be created this week.
  87. WNGSC: Have had a request to add a second slot, but will just use the 1st slot at the moment. If more time is required, then another slot could be allocated at the mid-week plenary.
  88. Letter Ballots
  89. Please see slides for the two letter ballots which have recently closed
  90. Chair: Any more questions and/or updates?
  91. None seen
  1. Any Other Business
  2. None
  3. Meeting recessed at 09:58HST

Wednesday, 10September 2008

IEEE 802.11 Mid Week Plenary

Presiding chair: Bruce Kraemer (Marvell) opened the meeting at 10:31 HST.

135people present.

  1. Approve/modify joint opening agenda(11-08-0937r6)
  2. Changes to the liaison order based on who is today.
  3. VHT 60 PAR
  4. Rules changes
  5. TGmb PAR revision
  6. Review of WNGSC topics
  7. Any objection to accepting the changes to the agenda?
  8. No objection, so moved and approved.
  1. Call for Essential Patents
  2. Call for essential patents
  3. No items raised.
  1. CAC
  2. Reminder about 19.30 meeting on Thursday
  1. Other Announcements

23.1.None at this stage.

  1. Liaisons

24.1.802.18 : Radio Regulatory Tag(11-08-1130r1r0) (Rich Kennedy)

24.1.1.Did some work on the IMT-A (Working Group 5D Korea)

24.1.2.Please note that there will be a summary of this at the Friday closing plenary

24.1.3.Some discussions about the RTCA for civilian airlines

24.1.4.Note: 1130r2 will be posted shortly with some updated URLs

24.1.5.No questions

24.2.802.19 (11-08-1129r0)Eldad

24.2.1.Did this not meet this week, but there is a report of teleconference calls, since the July 2008 meeting.

24.2.2.No questions

24.3.802.21

24.3.1.Chair: There was a joint 802.11/802.21 meeting last night, discussing the topic of IMT-A, and there will be more detailed update on Friday.

24.3.2.In addition, Clint would like to request moving this liaison report to Friday’s plenary

24.4.Bluetooth (John Barr)

24.4.1.Bluetooth SIG, continuing to integrate 802.11 & Bluetooth in alternative MAC/PHY architecture. Different radio to do high speed transfer will use the 802.11 PHY, in a peer to peer type operation. This is being done within the current Bluetoothspecifications as much as possible and hopefully something will be published half way through next year. These devices will not be fully Bluetoothcertifiable. This new system will not interfere with a normal 802.11 system.

24.4.2.Main issues are interference and co-existence with things like IEEE 802.11n. Also there are some market issues. Main benefit is the Bluetooth discovery mechanism operating over 802.11.

24.5.Wi-Fi Alliance

24.5.1.Andrew Myles (Wi-Fi Alliance Chair)

24.5.2.Brief update on a few items:

24.5.2.1.Next meeting Shanghai 14/15th November 2008.Please get your visas now if you wish to attend.

24.5.2.2.Certification of EAP types, WMMAC (11e/WMM), 802.11n

24.5.2.3.Aspects of MESH are being considered (11s)

24.5.2.4.Also looking at 11r, 11w

24.5.2.5.Public Safety aspects

24.5.2.6.Starting to look at peer to peer issues, in a personal area network environment

24.5.3.If you are interest in WiFi Alliance please consider joining, and I shall offer a $5000 reduction in membership prices.

24.6.IETF(11-08-1136r0)

24.6.1.Document includes updates from the IETF July 2008 meeting.

24.6.2.Interesting groups are HOKEY, CAPWAP, EMU, RADEXT, ECRIT, EAP, GEOPRIV

24.6.3.Chair: Should 802.11 be doing anything regarding direct inputs.

24.6.4.A: There is nothing required at the moment, which anyone has mentioned.

24.6.5.Q: Stephen: quick statement about emergency services workshop and the fact that the IEEE 802.21 ES SG will attend on behalf of IEEE 802. Please note this in an unofficial arrangement at the moment.

24.6.6.Note the WiFi Alliance is actually in October not November

24.7.ISO JTC1/SC 6

24.7.1.There is a liaison document which is being worked on and will be available on Friday

24.8.TIA

24.8.1.No report

24.9.3GPP

24.9.1.No report

  1. VHT 60GHz PAR revision (11-08-0998r4)

25.1.The PAR requires to be updated based on various meeting and teleconferences during July and August 2008.

25.2.Different permutations and wordings have been considered.

25.3.There was also an EC call in early September. They re-iterated that the PAR must be fair to both IEEE 802.11 and IEEE 802.15

25.4.On Monday this week, more editorial changes were made to the scope, primarily to the co-existence clause. There was also a joint meeting with IEEE 802.15.3c on this issue.

25.5.11-08-0998r4 describes most of these changes.

25.6.Believing that the PAR and Five Criteria contained in the documents referenced below meet IEEE-SA guidelines,Request that the updated PAR and Five Criteria contained in 08/806r5 be sent to IEEE 802 Executive Committee (EC) for EC approval to submit to NesCom.

25.7.TG results: Move: Darwin Engwer Second: George Vlantis: Vote Y: 41, N: 0, Abs: 2

25.8.Moved: Eldad Perahia, Second John Barr

25.9.For: 44, Against: 0, Abstain: 17 (Passes, 100%)

  1. AudCom Policy template 1060r1
  2. Jon Rosdahl: I have sent out the templates during emails this weekand basically we are requesting feedback from all members on this.
  3. One thing to note is that AudCom need a summary of all working groups, and hence they have sent out an initial template to request comments from each working group.
  4. Some sections are marked “shall not be modified”, whereas other areas are free text. However AudCom is also asking whether the text in the ““shall not be modified” is actually correct.
  5. The CAC on Sunday evening decided that some of the “shall not be modified” does indeed require some corrections.
  6. So far there have been no comments from the members this week.
  7. Chair: Please note that this is very important and please do not ignore this opportunity to consider potential changes to the P&Ps. If you don’t, we may have new constraints placed upon us by the higher executives in IEEE-SA.
  8. Q: Please note that these rules ignore teleconference and hence it will take away the power to make motions in teleconference (with a re-confirmation at the next face to face meeting). This has been a very useful mechanism in some task groups.
  9. C: I think that some of the emails may have gone missing on Monday.
  1. TGmb Report (1037r0)
  2. There is a change to the TGmb PAR as shown in document (1141r0)
  3. Clause 1.1 is a new addition to the form describing the purpose of the standard.
  4. Q: The purpose appears to say that a fixed device is not included? Is that right?
  5. A: I’m not sure, as this is exactly what is stated in the current PAR. If you can think of anything to update, please can you do it before Friday’s closing report that would be appreciate.
  6. Q: I’d change it to “including portable or handheld devices”.
  7. Chair: Since this is a PAR, let’s change it during the Friday plenary, when it comes to the whole WG, as opposed to doing it within the TGmb report.
  8. Q: Is the term “local area” really required.
  9. A: This is because the new rules say that 5.2 and 5.4 should match the corresponding text in the final document.
  10. Please note that we have an issues list (11-08-1127r0), which I would invite you all to consider. One of these is a set of comments carried over from TGn.
  11. It looks as though the next version will include TGk, TGr and TGy will definitely be incorporated into the next version of the baseline draft IEEE 802.11-2011.
  12. Please note that TGmb is now receiving comments and issues until November, which is the cut off date to produce a clean document for the initial letter ballot in March 2009.
  13. Q: I’d like to request that TGmb moves the procedural text out of clause 7, which has been there for about 10 years.
  14. A: That issue was discussed in TGmb earlier this morning, so please can you refer to the TGmb minutes for that discussion. Document re-arrangement is being considered within TGmb.
  1. New Business(11-08-0544r0)

28.1.Room change requests

28.2.Chair: I’ve not received any room changes, as I’ve not received any.

28.3.None arising

28.4.Chair: Any other business at this time

28.5.None

  1. WNG Review(11-08-1146r0)

29.1.The temporary WNGSC chair (Stephen McCann) presented a summary of WNGSC, covering the important issues for the working group.

29.2.No questions

  1. Announcements

30.1.TGaa Tutorial

30.2.Creation of a tutorial between TGaa and 802.1AVB. Some volunteers have now come forward to help with this, prior to the November 2008 meeting.

  1. Any Other Business

31.1.Nothing.

31.2.Meeting recessed at 12:00HST

Friday, 12thSeptember 2008

IEEE 802.11 Closing Plenary

Call to order at 08:01 HST by Bruce Kraemer(Marvell).

  1. Announcements
  2. 80 people in the room.
  1. Agenda(11-08-0937r7)
  2. Chair: Changes are shown in blue on the screen.
  3. Mainly there is an extra slot M.1801 ad hoc report. I’d also like to ask if we can move a new business motion to the reports, as the presenter needs to leave early.
  4. In addition, I’d like to suggest that we do not have a break this morning, as I think we will finish quite early around 11:00 HST.
  5. Any objection to adopting the changes to the agenda.
  6. None seen
  1. Patents
  2. Please note that this meeting is still operating under Monday’s IEEE P&P rules
  3. Call for Essential Patents and Letters of Assurance (LoA)
  4. No items raised.
  5. Please note that 3 LoAs has been received by AT&T. One of these was mentioned at the Denver July 2008 meeting. Please go to the PatCom site for further information.
  6. No questions on this
  1. Announcements

35.1.Chair’s minutes, reports and web pages

35.1.1.Please can you send these to the secretary

35.1.2.Please be aware of the Chair’s schedule for the chair’s committee meetings

35.2.Drafts for Sale

35.3.The IEEE sells drafts and other publications. 3 of the 20 drafts (11.2, n, y) are from 802.11. We have asked that all approved drafts and those in sponsor ballot should be for sale.

35.4.Q: 802.11n D3.0 and 802.11y D5.0 are both currently for sale, which is wrong.

35.5.Chair: Indeed it is a larger problem than what we initially thought. I shall contact the IEEE shop, through the liaison officer (Mike Kipness) to try and sort this out as soon as possible.

35.6.TGT for Sale

35.7.D1.01 is for sale within the IEEE shop (see above). Since D1.01 was never balloted, the current feeling is to remove this and replace it with D1.0, which was approved, for sale.

35.8.Tutorials in November

35.9.Chair: I have no knowledge about possible tutorial topic from IEEE 802.11. If you have any ideas please can you get back to me? Note: some WGs are now insisting that any groups with PARs must also have a tutorial to openly discuss the idea.

  1. 802.21 Liaison Report(11-08-1193r0)
  2. Chair: The liaison officer requests that this liaison position is now moved to the Friday closing plenary, rather than postponing it from Wednesday.
  3. They finished early this week and have started another re-circulation ballot.
  4. However ExCom have stated that PARs will only be approved once the base document has been approved.
  5. There may have a tutorial in November 2008.
  1. SC202 Report (18-08-0041r0)
  2. This is a discussion that will primarily occur within IEEE 802.18 and concerns an unofficial liaison topic to the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA).
  3. This issue should also have some interest to the medical industry.
  4. SC202 would like to come up with an identifiable method which the aviation authority could use to judge PEDs against, to allow operation on board aircraft. SC202 would like to explore how they can do this at the moment.
  5. Q: 802.11y has some features which could help, especially within the 2.4GHz band.
  6. A: Sure, but please remember that it’s the spurious emissions which are the real problem.
  7. Q: The idea that I would have to design a product which has emissions -25dB down, just for aircraft use is going to be difficult to live with. Why not have a mode on these devices, where the power levels can be reduced. Why not have a ‘I’m on an aircraft bit”, which switches into a truly safe aircraft mode.
  8. A: About 7-8 years ago, Richard Paine suggested a non-country code (i.e. a null country code), which would be transmitted within the IEEE 802.11 SSID in an aircraft and then devices would realize that they are in a special environment.
  1. Meeting Location
  2. Chair: Can I have a show of hand to see who isfavor of returning to this location next year?
  3. For: 18, Against: 22
  4. Q: Please can we avoid the TV program (wheel of fortune) next time.
  1. WG Reports

39.1.Treasury Report (11-08-1058r1)