VRSExtendedEmploymentRule RevisionAdvisoryCommittee
Session Notes for February 24, 2015
ConvenedbyMinnesotaDEEDVocationalRehabilitationServices
MeetingDetails
Date:Tuesday,February24,2015
Time:10:00am–3:00pm
Location:ProAct,Eagan,MN55121
Chair:JohnSherman,VRSExtendedEmploymentProgramDirector
Facilitator:HollyJohnson,LanternaConsulting,Inc.contractedthroughManagementAnalysisDevelopment,MinnesotaManagementandBudget
Advisorymembers(oralternates) inattendance: JeffBangsberg,LauraBealey,TimDickie,SteveDitschler,TimHammond,AnitaKavitz,JeremyGurney,NancyHuizenga,HollyJohnson,KarenJohnston,ClaytonLiend,RodPederson,DeanRitzman,JohnShermanandJohnSherwood-Gabrielson(joinedat1:15pm)
Guests:LeannKleaverandDanMills,VRSCounselors
KeyPerspectivesforEERuleRevisionWork
Throughouttheprocess,advisorymembersareasked tokeepasystemwideviewfortheEERuleRevisiontopicdiscussions.The fivekeyperspectivesaresummarizedas:
- AdvocacyOrganizations
- PublicPartners
- Locallevel-counties,municipalities, etc.e.g.RamseyCounty
- Statelevel- agencies,etc.e.g.Departmentof HumanServices(DHS),Minnesota OlmsteadPlan
- Federal level
- ExtendedEmployment(EE)Providers
- EEWorkers
- Currently working
- Eligiblebut notcurrentlyworking
- VRS-EERule'Owner'andAccountableAgency
- VRS EE team:John Sherman,Anita Kavitz andWendyKeller
- OtherDEEDandVRSstaff
WelcomeandOpeningRemarks
Themeetingwascalledto order.ThefacilitatorHollyJohnsonprovided abriefoverviewofthemeetingobjectives andagenda.JohnShermanintroducedguestobserversVRSCounselorsLeann KleaverandDanMills.
AdvisorySessionObjectives:
1.Workingsessionfocusedon developmentofanewEEprogram fundingmodel.
2.GatherkeystakeholderperspectivesandinputtoassistMinnesotaDEEDVocationalRehabilitationServicesintheEERuleRevisionprocess.
3.ContinuedexplorationanddiscussionrelatedtoADA,OlmsteadandtheWorkforceInnovationand OpportunityAct(WIOA)andtheircombinedimplicationsforMinnesota'sExtendedEmploymentRulerevision.
TheadvisorywasremindedtoreviewthedraftJanuary27,2015sessionnotesandaskedtoprovideanyeditsby February27,2015afterwhichtimethenoteswouldbefinalized.
Follow-upandUpdatessincetheJanuary2015Meeting
TheU.S.DepartmentsofLabor andEducationareworkingtodevelop asetofregulationsforimplementationofWIOAundertheaggressivetimelineset forthinthelegislation.Draftregulationswereoriginallyforecastfor endofJanuary2015 howeverareviseddraftreleasedatehasnowbeenforecastforMarch21.
JohnShermanalsoprovideda briefupdateontheEE legislativeprogressandtheGovernor'sbudget.TosupporttheadministrativehearingandtechnicalprocessesrelatedtotheEERule Revision,Johnhasreceivedapprovalforan additional staff.
Asof8:20amthismorning,draftbill SF1533language wasreleasedfromtheGovernor'sofficeand isnowavailable tothepublic.JeffBangsbergrequestedtohavethedraftbillsenttothe advisoryto share with othersandJohn agreed.Thedraftwasdeveloped andinformedbytheEEAdvisory conversationssinceDecember2014.ThedraftincludeslanguagethatopenstheEEprogramprocesstoincludelargemedicalinstitutionalprovidersaswellasintroducesdefinitionalupdatesasamendedfromWIOAsuch asinformedchoiceandintegratedsettings.UponreleasefromtheGovernor'soffice,Johnwasallowed toprovidea copytoMOHR'slobbyistShepHarrisandMOHRmembersKarenJohnston andSteve Ditschler.Karen JohnstonprovidedabriefupdateontheMOHRinput activitiesover thepastfewdaysleadingto hertestimonyduringintheSenateJobspolicycommittee.
Johndistributedabrief summaryofthedraftlanguagemodificationsdevelopedwithMOHRandamendedtothedraftbilllanguagefor 'Article4ExtendedEmploymentProgramChanges'.Theadvisoryreviewedthedraftlanguageandaskedquestionsforunderstandingandclarification.
Nextstepsinthelegislativeprocessinclude:
- thedraftlanguage isintroduced to membersofthelegislatureto seekabillco-author andseekahearing.
- thehearingprovidesanopportunityforinterestedpartiestotestifyregardingthebill.OnceVRSEE learns thatthebillisupforhearing,wewillnotify theadvisorycommittee.
- thecommitteeprocessforpolicyalone,isconductedintheSenateandtheprocessforpolicy, includingafiscal note,areconductedintheHouse.Note: atthispointthe bill does nothave 'fiscal note'.
- oncethebillpassesthroughappropriatedcommittees,then thelanguagewilllikelybe addedto largerbillsineachbody.
- ifpassedoffthefloor,then thebillgoestoconferencecommitteewheresometimesthepolicybillsare runseparately.
- ifthebillis votedintostatestatutesometimebeforeMaythentherulewritingprocessisanticipatedtoflowmuchsmoother.
Karen Johnston inquiredabouttheeffective dateifthebillbecomesstatute. Johnagreedthat itisanimportantquestionandrespondedwith thefollowing: if thestatutedoesnotinvolveafiscalnotethenitwouldlikelybecomeeffectiveJuly2015however ifthestatute impactspolicyandfiscalthen it wouldlikelybeeffective August 2015.
Statutetakesprecedenceoverrule.He saidthattheeffectivedatehasnotbeendevelopedandthatitmightmakesensetoconsidertheprogrambenefitsforstatuteandrulegoingintoeffect togetherpossiblytargetingJuly2016tominimize potentialEEprogramservicedisconnectsanddisruptions.NancyHuizengaraisedatimingissueforlanguageas it relatestoAllinaandimplementation implications.Johnagreedtolookintotheissue.
Advisorycommentondraftbilllanguage: We seeanissuebetweentwofederalpoliciesbeingatcrosspurposesattheintersectionofdraftstatuteofintegratedsetting(<=50%)withthefederalAbilityOne contractrequirementsofthepercentageofdisabledpersonsintheprogram(=>75%).The issuesincludetheintegrationcomponentaswellastheratespaidforwork.
Advisorycommentondraftbilllanguage: It appearsthat"whathappenstocommunityemployment"isthepolicyquestion.Oneofourquestionsis wheredoesthe systemprovideforsupport tothosewiththemost challenged skillsets?Tim Hammondnotedthat anyfundingmodelshould movetoward reducedservicesovertimeformanyoftheprogramparticipantsandthatthosemoniesshouldthenbemadeavailabletoothersforservices.Johnstatedthat DEEDand providersalikedonotalwaysknowwhereprogramparticipantsgowithservices andacrossotherprograms/fundingsources.
AsJohnwrappeduptheupdatesportionofthemeeting,Karen JohnstonthankedhimandVRSforthewaytheyhaveprovidedtransparencyandopportunitiesfor inputintotheEE Rule revisionprocessbyconveninganEE RulemakingAdvisoryCommittee.ShenotedthatMOHRiscomposedofalargenumberof organizations(100+)who provideawidearrayofservices eachofwhomhavetheir ownperspectivesandconstituents.ShenotedthatClaytonLiendhasbeen diligent insendingoutinformationontheadvisory'sdiscussiontoMOHR.Heandthe otherMOHRrepresentativesonthecommitteearealsodoingtheir besttoassist othermembersin gainingabetterunderstandingoftheissuesandworkofthisgroupandprovidingopportunitiestoaskquestionsandweigh in.
BuildingaNewFundingModelfortheExtendedEmploymentProgram
Followingthereviewofthe draft statutelanguage,Johnopenedtheworkingsessionfocusedon building anewfundingmodelfortheEE Program.Hedistributedcopies ofhis'RedesignoftheEEFundingSystem2/24/2015'presentationmaterials.
HebeganwithabriefreviewoftheEEfundingguidelinespreviouslydevelopedanddiscussedbytheadvisorycommitteeassummarized:
- Maintainapredictableperformance-basedfundingsystem,including:
- Reimbursehoursofworkperformedbypersonsserved
- Differentialreimbursementratesbasedon averagehourlywageofpersonsserved
- Competitiveemploymentisfirstpriorityforfunding
- Cappingnon-competitiveemploymentwillnotdisplacecurrentpersonsserved
- Downsizingofnon-competitiveemploymentmodelswillbescheduledandpredictable,andwilldemonstratemeasuredchangeoverareasonabletimeperiod
- Possibleconsiderationforimpactofinflationonreimbursementrates
- Incentiveswillbeconsideredtofacilitate/rewardconversion
Johnalsoreviewedthe advisorycommittee'sconsensuskeypointsdevelopedandendorsedattheJanuary27,2015meeting as it relatestoanewEEfundingmodel:
- IncrementaleliminationofCenterBasedEmployment(CBE)withinfiveyears;
- IncludebothCenter BasedEmployment(CBE)andCommunityEmployment(CE)inthenon-competitivefund,withdifferentratesandtwotimelines;
- Sunsettingoneofthefunds -centerbased;
- Cappingnon-competitiveemployment;
- AftercenterbasedisreducedandultimatelyeliminatedfromtheEEprogram,theresourcesmovetootherservices;
- Bettertrackingsystemwillbevitaltothenewmodel
- Theimplicationsofthespecialwagecertificate willimpacttimingforCommunityEmployment(CE)basedonwhathappenswiththe subminimumwageunderWIOAregulationsyettobereleased.
Johnthenprovided an introductiontoadraftfunding modelwithanumber of variablesdevelopedfordiscussionpurposesonlyusing2014 ratesasthe basis.Themodelvariationsincluded assumptionsusinga)currentrates,b)ratesusingSupportedEmploymentasapercentofhourlywages(40%),c)ratesusing50%ofhourlywage(wouldrequire fiscalnote togetenough resourcestofundthemodel),and d)rates using45%ofhourlywage totrytoaddress thefundinglevelissue in (c).
Theafternoon sessionwasfocusedonthetopicof overproductiontopicwhichbeganwiththefollowingOverproductionKeyPoints:
- LimitedtoSupportedEmployment
- Couldberetroactive;i.e.fundedfromunderproduction,likewageincentive
- Couldadjust startingpointforthenext year
- Couldbetargetedtoregionortargetpopulations
Johnaskedtheadvisoryfortheirthoughtsonhowtoencouragenewpopulationsandnewgeographicareas into thesystem. Henotedthatthedollarscouldbetargetedtosupportexistingservices.Oneofthebig open questionstherulerevisionmust isaddressishowtodistributethe overproduction.Johnsaidanargumentforoverproductionisthatitmightbeusedto incentivizeorganizationswhocurrentlyprovideforSupportedEmploymenttoincreasecapacitytoserve.
JeremyGurneyaskedaboutthepossibilitiesofprioritizingthe use ofmoniestofirstsupportSupportedEmployment(SE)andfundSEoverproduction.Anymoniesleftthengoestoanon-competitive 'pot of monies'tobedistributedto other services.John saidthatsuchanapproachwouldposetimingissuesbecause of whenwe would knowwhat'savailabletobedistributedtononcompetitive. HestatedthattheprimarypurposeofEE istofundSupported Employmentand anythingleft overcan beredistributed.TheMinnesota OlmsteadPlan isexpectedtoincreasethedemandforSupportedEmployment.TimDickie noted thatOlmsteadisalsoaboutmoving peoplefromnoncompetitivetocompetitivesothe system shouldhelpincentivizethatmovement-justpayingformoreSupportedEmployment overproductiondoesnotnecessarilyaccomplishthat.Johnaskedtheadvisoryaboutusingoverproductionasamechanismtosupportthemovement.SteveDitschlerremindedtheadvisorythat wedon'treallyknowtheactuallevelofoverproductionoccurringinthesystembecausemanyorganizations arenotreportingit oncetheyhaveuseduptheirfunding.
RodPedersonaskedifthere are moniestoallownewpeopleintothesystem?SteveDitschleraskedaboutusingmoniesfor fundingtransitionyouth rather thanoverproductiongiventheincreasedemphasisontransitionyouthwithinWIOAandotherpolicies.Thecommittee discussedthepotentialbenefitsofreducingfundingovertimeandseeinghowchange unfoldstomonitorforunintendednegativeconsequences.Rodalsoexpressed concernsabouttherelative impactweighttometrovs.greaterMinnesotaaswellastheskill levelsofthepopulationsbeing served. Johnsaidonepossibilitycouldbeforthe ruletoincludesomeprovisionsfor fundingoverproductiontargetedforspecificdisabilitygroupsand/orgeographicregions.
TimHammond saidthatoverproductionwilloccur atanunpredictablelevelhoweverthatdoesnotimpacttherateswewillpayinthesystem. AnitaKavitzremindedtheadvisorytothinkaboutoverproduction intermsoftwophases:a)Overproductionforthecurrentsystem we'reinandduringatransitionperiodandb)onanongoingbasisoncethetransitionperiodiscomplete.Do wemakeanyaccommodationsforthosedoingoverproductionknowingthatthemaximum wecouldeverfundisbasedontheunderproduction?Whichhighlightsthefactthatcurrentlyeverythingistiedtounderproduction.John addedthatthereareCRPconcernsthatweareproducingunreimbursed servicesforexisting consumersand thatwedonothaveanymonieslefttobringnewpeople into receiveservicesthroughtheEEprograme.g.transitionyouthchallenges.John stressedthefactthat ifwe're alreadylimitedandthereare nomoniesforreimbursement,thenwecannotbringanynewpeopleintothesystem.Asanexample, John notedthatlastyearthere wasasubstantialamountofdollarsfromunderproductionandthatthedollarswillberedistributedtoproviders withoverproduction.There isa timelagthatimpactsourservicesanditbolstersan argumentforamoreeffectivedistributionmechanism.Currently,theprimaryincentiveforproviderstoreportoverproductionhoursisthattheprovidermayearnmorewageincentivedollars.
KarenJohnstonaskedwhatifwetookunderproductionfromCenterBasedEmploymentandCommunityEmployment andautomaticallyputitintoSupportedEmploymentsincethelongterm goalistofundSupportedEmployment?It wouldhelptocontinuetoshrinkthepot withouttakingawayfromcurrentconsumersserved.JohnandRodnotedthat itsoundedlike amoreequitableapproachthansome. Tim Hammondsaidhethought suchanapproachwould be supported byJudge Frank. JeffBangsbersnotedit wouldbackupthetalkwith incentives.Anitacounteredthatthisstrategyaloneissimilarto whatwe'vebeendoingalready andthatitprobably would notbe sufficientbyitselftoaffectthe levelofchangedirectedbytheDepartmentofJustice and theOlmstead Decision.
Karenasked about combiningsuch astrategywiththecapping.Johnnotedthatthereisachallenge in balancinghelpwithoverproductionforexistingproviderswithensuringfundsforopportunitiesfor newprovidersandtoaddressunmetneedstoexpandtheoverallsystemcapacity.Both setsofinterestsarevalid.
SteveDitschleraskedifwewouldbebetterservedbygoingtothelegislaturefornewmoniesforunmetneeds.John saidthat inhismanyyearsof experiencewiththelegislature, it hasbeenveryseldomthatoutsidegroupshavegonefornewmonies.Inaddition,VRShas notbeenabletoaskforfunds andhistoricallythedepartmenthasbeenlimitedintheirabilitytorequestprogramincreaseswithintheagencyandGovernor'sbudgets.MostrequestsfromMACRO(nowMOHR)wereforrateincreases.Realistically,fundingnewtargetedpopulationshasnotbeensomethingeitherinternalorexternalforceshaveachievedmuchsuccess.Theyhasseensomesuccessforafewnewpopulations inspecializedareassuchasIPS.Andnowthere is anotherpushtodomoreforDeaf andHardof Hearingbutneitherofthese effortsareattachedtotheExtendedEmploymentprogram.
JeffBangsbergaskedif unmetneeds can bemetbycurrentproviders.John said yeshowever eventhosehaveunevenresults.Anitaasked theadvisoryfortheirideasonhowtohelpmakedollarsavailablefor newservicesand new areas.TheDepartmentofJusticehasbeen clearinitsexpectationthatpeople shouldnot betrackedintononcompetitiveemploymentfortherestoftheirlives.
LauraBealeysharedthattheirCRPisfocusedoncreatingaclearerexpectationwithemployersaroundindividualshired inthecommunityemploymentprogram.MRCIisaskingemployersupfront toconsiderhiringan individualincommunityemploymentafter90days.Laurasaidthatanumber ofemployersare receptivetothisapproach.Shenotedotherhiringbarriersforemployeesthattendtoextendcommunityemployment:someemployersarehiringnomorethan99people sotheydon'thitthe100employeelevelrequirementforhealthinsurance.She said that CommunityEmployment canbeeffectiveasajobtryoutandthatemployerstrusttheCRP asaresource.Ithasbeenastrategythataddressesthe"stayon acrewforever"issue andithelpswiththetransitionprocessanddirection.
TheadvisorycommitteecontinuestohavesignificantconcernsaboutindividualswiththemostsignificantdisabilitieswhomaynothavethenecessaryskillstoaccomplishthetasksneededtoachievetheSupportedEmployment levelofservices.Thereisapotential dangerinlosingthe'middlesteps'ofCommunityEmploymentthatshouldbeconsidered inthe rule writingprocess.There isalsovalueinearninggoodwages withinaCommunityEmploymentservice thatshouldbeconsideredasagoodoutcome.Weneedfundingtosupportthoseservices.
TimHammondchallenged thecommitteetoconsiderthatifindividualshaveneverbeen'outinthe community',thentheywouldnotnecessarilychoosetomoveortryintegratedandcommunityemploymentwithoutmoreintentionalexperiencesandencouragement.TimnotedthatwhiletherepresentativeCRPsonthecommitteehavebeenworkinghardtoassist individualswith finding competitiveemployment inthe mostintegratedsettings,notalltheprovidershavebeenproactivein encouragingindividuals inthespirit oftrueinformed choice.
JeffBangsbergagreed sharingthathisparentsweretoldhe"wouldnevergetoutofanursinghome".Jeffexpressedhisbeliefthatwe allhavegoodintentionsandthat whatweare discussingisabouthoware wegoingtodo the best wecaninthebest interestsofthoseweserve.Jeffsaidweneedto givepeople theopportunitytoexperiencedifferentenvironmentsandgivethememploymentopportunities inthecommunitywheneverwecan.Johnsaid thatweneedto continueto learnmoreabout thefactorskeepingpeopleinlesscompetitiveenvironments.
SteveDitschlernotedthatthetransitiontomoreintegratedsettingswillbehelpedbytheyoungerdemographics.Individualscomingintotheprogramfromtransitionyouthwillnotevenbeexposedto'shelteredworkshops'andmanyindividualscurrentlyinCenterBased Employmentarenaturallyagingout ofthesystem.Advisorymembersnotedthatmostyoungerparentshavehighexpectationsfortheirchildren'sparticipationinemploymentandcommunityexperiences.
RecapofAdvisoryCommitteeConsensusandKeyPoints
TheadvisorycommitteereinforcedtheimportanceofcommunicatingwithEEprogramparticipantsandstakeholdersthatthecommitteeisstronglyin favorof changestonon-competitiveemploymentservicesoccurringoveraperiodoftimeratherthanabruptly.Clearly,therevisedrulemustmeetthe requirementsofOlmsteadandWIOA.Theyarelawandnot optional.Thehopeofthe advisorycommittee isthattheserequirementswillbeeffectivelymetwhileprovidingsufficientsupporttotransitionimpactedprogramparticipantsandEEproviderstomoreSupportedEmploymentservicesovertime.
Oneideageneratedbytheadvisorycommitteeforadditionalconsideration:
- TheSupportedEmployment poolofdollarswouldbepermanentlyincreasedbytheunderperformance inbothCenterBasedEmploymentandCommunityEmployment.AndthosedollarsmovedarepermanentlyallocatedtoSupportedEmploymentratherthanrevertbackin subsequentfundingyears.Thisideaalignswiththeprogram's purposeofbuildingSupportedEmployment.An openquestionremainsonredistribution.Wemayor maynot eliminatetheRFPasanoptionforredistribution.Itmayusedforrates.Wemaykeepinplacethevoluntaryoptiontomovethedollarsfromnoncompetitivetocompetitiveemploymentservices.
Theadvisoryaskedaboutcontinuingdiscussion at thenextmeetingregardingoptionstoratchetdowntherateaswemovethroughthetransitionperiodtogiveproviderstimetoadjust.StartingatthecurrentrateandthendecreasingtherateovertimetoacceleratethemovementtowardsSupportiveEmploymentwhileretainingCommunityEmploymentaspartoftheinformedchoicerange ofserviceswithintheEE Program.
Lookingtowardsthenextadvisoryworkingsession inMarch,Johnforecastmorediscussiononthe communityemployment topicandpotentialtimetables(proposedfor7years).The advisoryexpressedcontinuedsupportfora modelthatreducesfundingtocenterbased overfiveyears tozeroandcontinuestoincludeCommunityEmploymentwithinanoncompetitivefundfortheEEProgram.Johnaskedtheadvisorytoreviewthelegislativeissuesanddraft language. Othertopicsfordiscussion include:increasingtherateforSupportedEmployment,discussiononkeepingoverproductionasanoptionwithinthe systemandhowtodealwithitinthecontextofre-establishingbases andhandlingunearneddollarseachyear.
WrapUp
In conclusion,Johnthankedthe advisorycommitteefortheirwork.Heand Anitawillmoveforwardwiththeinputsprovidedtofurther developdraftmodelsforthenextmeetingscheduledforMarch17th.
NextSteps:
- Johnwillsend an electroniccopyofthedraft statutelanguage tothe advisorycommittee.
- Theadvisoryagreedtocontinueproactivesharing andcascadingoftheworkoftheVRSEERuleRevisionAdvisoryCommitteewithotherEEsystemmembersnotablythemembershipof MinnesotaOrganizationforHabilitationandRehabilitation(MOHR)for thebenefit of inputandsupportfortherevision.
- Thenextadvisorycommitteemeetingswillbeasfollows:
- Tuesday,March17th,10:00amto3:00pm
- Tuesday,April21st,10:30amto3:00pm
- HostedatProact,3195NeilArmstrongBlvd,Eagan, MN55121.
- PreviewforMarch17,2015WorkingSession:
- ThenextcommitteemeetingisanticipatedtodelveintopotentialratesandcappingforCommunityEmploymentaspartofanewEE programfundingmodel.
- ThecommitteewillalsotalkfurtheraboutpotentialincentivestoassistinthetransitionandtransformationoftheprograminalignmentwithOlmstead,Minnesota'sEmploymentFirstPolicyandthenewWorkforceInnovationandOpportunityAct(WIOA).
MeetingAdjourned
Themeetingwasadjournedat 3:00pm.
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