“Conversation with Teachers”
President Boyd K. Packer
CES Evening with a General Authority
February 29, 2008
I am delighted to be here. The first time I came to this pulpit in thiswonderful Tabernacle was 42 years ago. President David O. McKay was President of the Church. It was the first time I was to speak in conference. I think I am a little less nervous now than I was then, but not much!
Alma Sonne, who was the senior among the Assistants to the Twelve, as wewere known then, was from Logan. He was a big man and had a big voice, and he called me “little brother.” When I was about to respond to the announcement to speak, he said, “Little Brother, there’s a great spirit at that pulpit when you get there.” And I found that to be true.
Years ago in San Francisco, a friend of ours was invited to sing at a meeting.She had a beautiful contralto voice. They said they would send a car for her. Shewas a young woman at the time. And when she got into the back seat of the car,she was sitting next to President Heber J. Grant.
On the way to the meeting, President Grant said to her, “I’m so nervous.”And she said, “Why, President Grant, I can’t believe that. You are nervousafter all your years?”And he said, “Yes, my dear, and if ever I lose that, I will not be what Ishould be in the calling that I have.”
I learned a lot from that. I learned that we should not take counsel from ourfears.The second verse in the 46th section of the Doctrine and Covenants says,referring to the elders of the Church, “But notwithstanding those things which arewritten”—disregarding all that is available—“it always has been given to the eldersof my church from the beginning, and ever shall be, to conduct all meetings as theyare directed and guided by the Holy Spirit” (D&C 46:2).
Then there is the promise that all of us have laid claim to. The gift of theHoly Ghost, as it is conferred upon us as members of the Church, together with thepowerful Light of Christ, which is born within us, gives us the promise that “itshall be given you in the very [moment] that portion that shall be meted unto everyman” (D&C 84:85). How often I have relied on that, as I do right now.
I am going to read a scripture or two, all I have written by way of notes:
“Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be
instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of thegospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient foryou to understand;
“Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things whichhave been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things whichare at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations,and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and ofkingdoms” (D&C 88:78–79).
In the Church when you count up (and you can count it many ways) thosewho have the title “teacher” in their calling or in their ordination or their settingapart, the number is, as a matter of fact, just under four million, when you think ofthe home teachers, the teachers in the auxiliaries and the priesthood. Then if youadd the parents, it would go far over four million, of course, with thecommandment that they are “to bring up [their] children in light and truth” (D&C93:40).
The scripture promises: “Light and truth forsake that evil one. . . . But I havecommanded you to bring up your children in light and truth” (D&C 93:37, 40).
The scripture that I read earlier talks about “things which have been, thingswhich are, things which must shortly come to pass” (D&C 88:79).
Paul had written to Timothy. What he gave as a prophecy, I will read as adescription or an announcement that describes where we are now. I have changedvery few words in it:
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times [have] come.
“For men [are] lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,
blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
“Without natural affection”—that is a very powerful phrase as we describewhere we are now—“without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers,incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,“Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.”
Then strangely enough it says, “[They have] a form of godliness, but [deny]the power thereof: from such turn away” (2 Timothy 3:1–5).
I have many times held on to that promise in the Book of Mormon that all“men”—and that would include women also—“are instructed sufficiently that theyknow good from evil” (2 Nephi 2:5).
Sometimes when I have been working with a person who was near self-destructionand had almost given up and he says, “Well, what’s the use,” Iremember that “men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil” (2Nephi 2:5).
Years ago we were at a seminary meeting up at Ricks College, as it wasnamed then. We held meetings of the seminary and institute men in an area, andusually we had a General Authority with us. Two experiences taught me much.
Elder Anton R. Ivins, the senior President of the First Quorum of the
Seventy at the time, was born in a dugout down in St. George. In my knowing ofhim, he was a wonderful, gentle old man. (I do not like to say “old” anymore asmuch as I used to, so I use “upper-middle age.”)
I had in a class that boy that you have had in your class. I thought of that oneboy at the time and thought, “Well, the biggest contribution he makes to our classis the day he’s absent.”
So I described this boy to President Ivins. What I was asking was, “How fardo we have to go? What do we really owe?”
He was sitting on a table up at the head of the laboratory where we weremeeting, and his feet were swinging back and forth. I have the image of thatwonderful Church leader. He thought for a while and then said, “What if it’s yourboy?”
I learned something. What if it is your boy?On another occasion, incidentally in the same school, we had PresidentJoseph Fielding Smith. There had been circulated around the Church a letter,which somehow had been sent to the bishops and stake presidents, announcing thatthe Church was out of the way, that we did not have the priesthood because thepriesthood was never conferred properly.
The writer went to a great point in theletter to say that if it is done right, you must first confer the priesthood and thenconfer the office of the priesthood, and if you do not do that, the ordinance is noteffective. This was having quite an influence around the Church.
Someone asked President Smith, “What about this letter?”
He said, “Well, before I tell you about the letter, let me tell you about theman.” He proceeded to tell us a few things, and then said, “And so you see, thatman is a liar pure and simple. Well, maybe not so pure!”
The Church is marvelous in how precise it is, how things must be as theymust be, and how gentle it is, being able to accommodate all of us in our needs.
On one occasion, a woman approached President Smith and complained thatshe had attended a baptism and that the ordinance was not valid, and that the namewas not given properly. It was, for example, John Henry Johnson, and the man’sname was actually Henry John Johnson.
She said, “I’ve been insisting that the ordinance be done over. It wasn’t doneproperly.”President Smith thought for a few minutes, and then he said, “Well, whowent in the water?” Then he said, “Why don’t you just go on about your work?”
When you look, there are only a few things that are required to be just rightor they are done over. One is the sacrament prayer. We have, of course, the priestswho are learning to bless the sacrament.
I was in a sacrament meeting once when the priest was frightened andnervous and garbled a few things and looked at the bishop. The bishop signaledhim to do it over. He tried, then the third time, then the fourth time.
I tapped the bishop on the knee and said, “Bishop, it’s good enough!”
What we do in the Church is good enough. The ordinances—the prayers onthe sacrament and the sealing ordinance have to be precise. The endowment is anordinance that has been revealed. It is a very comfortable Church to live in, and themantle of the priesthood fits very comfortably on those of us who hold thepriesthood. And the marvel of it is that the priesthood can be held by all adult menin the Church (see D&C 1:20). You have seen in your lifetime one regulation tothat (see D&C Official Declaration 2).
President Joseph Fielding Smith’s wife, Jessie Evans Smith (we called herAunt Jessie) had a marvelous contralto voice. She would travel with him quiteoften. She somehow always persuaded him to sing with her. They sang a beautifulduet together. Once as he was going back to his seat she pulled him down, and hesat on her lap. She said, “This is the only way I get to hold the priesthood!”
If you knew the Brethren as we know them, you would find that, thankgoodness, we’re nobodies. We are as ordinary as ordinary can be. There is not timeto convince you of that, but we just have the monumental, monstrous responsibilityof guiding the Church in this day and age.
When Paul wrote to Timothy and said, “Perilous times shall come” (2
Timothy 3:1) and described all of the things—people without natural affection,disobedient to parents, proud, blasphemous, and all of the rest—it happened then,and it happens now.
He then said, surprisingly, “Having a form of godliness, but denying thepower thereof: from such turn away” (2 Timothy 3:5).
Once when I was reading that I was wondering, “Well, what can we do? Allof that is with us now in greater and more sophisticated patterns. What can we doabout it?” Then I read the rest of the chapter:
“Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and beingdeceived.
“But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast beenassured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them.”
And then this: “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in ChristJesus.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:13–16).
So after laying out to Timothy all the great challenges, Paul taught him tojust go read the scriptures, to teach the scriptures. In the scriptures you have thedoctrines that bring you to a testimony of Christ.
When I was a seminary teacher and went to Utah State University to get amaster’s degree, I asked the dean of education if I could write a dissertation thatwould help me personally.
Sometime later at Brigham Young University when I was working on mydoctorate, they had a visiting professor from Ohio, a woman, and she was teachingelementary education. I was not going into elementary education, but I wanted aclass in it.
She gave us an assignment to produce a term paper. She said, “But I want tohave an outline of it and have it approved. I’ll meet with each one of youindividually.”
So I met with her and startled her, I think. I said, “What I’d like to do is tofind out what I know about this subject.”
Typically in graduate education you slip over to the library and thumbthrough a book until you find a sentence or a paragraph and then tack it into yourwriting with a few sentences of your own.
I said, “I’ll do that. I’ll read any number of books you want. That isn’t thepoint. But I’d like to find out what I know about this.”
She thought for a long time, and then she said, “You mean spin it out ofwhole cloth?”
I said, “Yes. I suppose so.”
She said, “Oh, we couldn’t do that!”
And I thought, “There we are!”
In comparison with that, in 1954 there was some disorder in Church
education. It was determined that all of the seminary and institute teachers from allthe world would be called to Brigham Young University for a summer session. TheFirst Presidency had determined that if they got everybody together and got themall on the same page, this disorder that was finding its way in the system would beerased.
To my surprise, I was appointed as chairman of the committee ofarrangements for that summer school and was told that our teacher would beHarold B. Lee of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, then a senior apostle. So wehad a shoulder-to-shoulder relationship with him for five weeks, five days a week,two hours a day with Harold B. Lee as the teacher. That was 1954. It was a signalexperience in my life. Incidentally, I kept all of the lectures. It is a marvelousjourney through Church principles and doctrines and priesthood responsibilities.
Elder Lee invited some visiting teachers. President J. Reuben Clark Jr. and ElderMarion G. Romney each came a time or two. That was a glorious time. We studiedthe gospel.
We also had to present a paper at the end of that summer school. So I talkedto Elder Lee. We had as a text a volume that had been written by President JosephFielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny.
I talked to Brother Lee and said, “I can write my paper and recite what
President Smith knows about this subject, but I’d like to find out what I knowabout it.”
And different from that professor from Ohio, he said, “Yes. You do that.”
Well, that is much harder, as you know. Anybody can put together a clericalpaper. But in searching inside my soul, I was able to see and to understand. Then Ibegan to know that President Lee was, if anything, a teacher at all times. If youknew that and he had any idea you wanted to learn, he would be teaching you allthe time.
I remember once we had been to Chicago to a servicemen’s convention. Thiswas during the Vietnam War, and we were having conferences around the Churchand gathering the men who were heading for Vietnam. I, with Brother Lee, was onthe servicemen’s committee. So we went to meetings in San Francisco and otherplaces. But we were in Chicago for this one, and a couple of lessons came out ofthat. One of them startled me.
A young man came up to us as we were leaving and said, “Elder Lee, I’mleaving within the week to go to Vietnam. I don’t know whether I’ll come back ornot. I come from an inactive family. Will you give me a blessing, please?”
You could hardly resist the pleadings of a soldier boy.To my surprise, Elder Lee said, “My son, your father should give thatblessing.”
He said, “Oh, my father isn’t active. He wouldn’t even know how. He’snever given a blessing of any kind.”
Then Brother Lee said, “Nevertheless, he should give you the blessing. Letme tell you what to do. You go to your father and say, ‘Now I’m leaving, and Idon’t know whether I’ll be back. I’m certainly going into harm’s way, and I want afather’s blessing.’”
Brother Lee knew that this embarrassed father would say, “I don’t knowhow to do that.”
But Brother Lee gave him the instruction. He said, “Tell your father thatyou’ll sit on a chair, and he can stand behind you and put his hands on your headand say whatever comes.”
That was the end of that conversation, and the boy went away sorrowing.That incident was out of my mind until nearly a year later when I met thatyoung man. He reminded me of that circumstance.
He said, “Do you know what happened? My father gave me the blessing. Itwas a marvelous thing and a strength and a protection.”
On another occasion when I was teaching seminary, a boy from Corinne washaving a struggle. They lived on a dairy farm. There were, I think, seven girls, andhe was the oldest, a boy. He was a fine, strapping, young junior in high school. Hewas responsible. In the winter his father had gone out to turn the hydrant off thatwas dripping, and he slipped on the ice and was killed. That left this 16-year-old asthe head of the family.
As the school year went on, I could see that something was the matter withthat boy. I knew he was working late getting the milking done and all of that, andthen I learned that it wasn’t just overwork. He really had a terminal illness.
We were dedicating the Indian chapel in Brigham City. President David O.McKay was coming to dedicate it, one of the few times up to then that I had stoodshoulder-to-shoulder with him. President Spencer W. Kimball was also there.
We were interrupted after the meeting by the mother of this boy. She said, “My son is dying. We have brought him in a station wagon and carried him to theoffice. President McKay, will you give him a blessing, please?” She was a tearfulmother pleading for her son.
Again I was startled. President McKay said, “My dear sister, if I gave all ofthe blessings I’m called on to give, I wouldn’t have the strength to perform theduties that only I can do. We’ll have President Lillywhite”—the stake presidentand, incidentally, a seminary teacher—“stand in for me in giving the blessing.”