2013-09-04-Job Interviews
Seminars@Hadley
Addressing the White Elephant in the Room:
When and How to Disclose During a Job Interview
Presented by
Lauri Dishman
Moderated by
Larry Muffett
September 4, 2013
Larry Muffett
Welcome to Seminars at Hadley. My name is Larry Muffett. I’m a member of Hadley Seminars’ team and I also work in Curricular Affairs. Today’s seminar topic is Addressing the White Elephant in the Room: When and How to Disclose During an Interview.
Our presenter today is a familiar one to many of you who are regular participants. Lauri Dishman is the owner of Inner Focus, a private mental health practice helping those coping with blindness or vision loss. For over a decade Lauri served as Manager of Counseling Services at Second Sense Chicago, where she developed and managed the counseling center. Lauri holds a Master’s Degree in Counseling and Organizational Psychology from the Adler School of Professional Psychology in Chicago. Lauri also teaches courses in group and career counseling to graduate students at the Chicago School of Professional Psychology.
Today Lauri will be sharing her insights with you on this important and timely topic. So without any further ado, let me welcome Lauri and turn the microphone over to her. Lauri, welcome and really looking forward to today’s presentation.
Lauri Dishman
Well, thank you Larry. Hopefully, everyone can hear me. At my last of couple of mic checks, it seemed that was coming in loud and clear. And I’m doing this from my iPad which is really exciting because this is technology that has transcended from both the sighed and the visually impaired world. So I’m very excited to be here.
We’re talking about the dreaded interview. And I know many people – some people love interviews and I’m sure many of you who have been in interviews have recognized that, or have experienced that it can be stressful. It can be very tough. And HR and hiring managers deliberately do it that way. And we’ve talked about this, for those of you who’ve tuned in to seminars that I’ve done before, you know why they do this. They do this because frankly, they’re afraid. Employers are afraid of who they’re going to bring in the door. Anybody who’s new is foreign, is different, is not what they’re comfortable with. Not what they’re used to. Are they going to fit in? Are they going to be a good part of the family? Is this person going to steal from us? Is this person going to come in late every day or does is this person going to have an attitude in some capacity? What kind of potential management nightmare could a new hire bring?
And so with that, HR and hiring managers make the process of interviewing very, very difficult. They’re looking for perfection and we all know that perfection doesn’t exist but they set the interview up to try to find perfection. And so it puts us on edge. It can put us in a little bit of discomfort, in an uncomfortable situation.
Now if we add to the equation, say, a candidate that walks in the door with a white cane or a guide dog, chance are there’re going to be additional fears or additional questions that might enter these HR or hiring managers’ minds. Now granted, not everyone is going to have these questions, but chances are many will. And in fact there was a research article. It was an article that was written a few months ago. It was published in the Wall Street Journal. And it was called When it Comes to Working, Blind Workers Face Bias. And this was a study that was conducted by the National Industries for the Blind. They’re a nonprofit organization that advocates for individuals who are blind or visually impaired to work and to get out there and to have the right to have a career just like anybody else.
And they surveyed over 400 HR and hiring managers from different types of organizations, companies, corporations and so forth and they wanted to know why is the unemployment rate for people that are blind or visually impaired so much higher than it is for say the general population or even for other populations with different types of disabilities. We’ve heard numbers, you know, hovering around the 70% and there’s a give and take, you know, based on many different variables. But let’s just face it—that number is pretty high.
And so they wanted to know why. And so through this survey they learned, you know, a few things and first of all is that many hiring managers just have automatic thoughts about somebody who is blind or visually impaired who might walk into the room. They might feel that that feel poses some sort of a liability to a company. Are they going to be expensive to accommodate? Are they going to be safe? Are they going to be as productive? And there are these sort of automatic biases that enter many peoples’ minds. And again, I want to preface this by saying it’s not everybody, but from the survey that was done, this is sort of, you know, it’s, you know obviously not, it’s one survey but it can give us a picture of what potentially, you know, can happen.
And so obviously, you know, here we have this interview which in itself is very stressful. And then we have this additional stress of now, okay, now we have to try to defy this bias. So, let’s talk about this. And what I want to do is I want to open up the chat room and I also want to open up the microphone because I want to know what your experience has been. For those of you who have been in an interview, what is your theory? Many people feel that you shouldn’t say anything and try to get away without appearing visually impaired because there’s just this automatic bias, and other people feel like, no, I need to put it all out on the table. I need to be very honest and very forthright about it. So there are many different approaches to this. So, I want to know what your approach has been and what your success or failures or challenges, or what not, or your philosophy is about this. So, Larry, if you don’t mind, I’m going to step back and I would like to hear from others. And if other want to post something in the chat room or they would like to say something over the microphone, that would be great.
Caller
My name is Eric and I’m sixteen years old and currently looking for employment. And I’ve already done an interview at the VFS store. And it was going all right, I mean, like, it was my first interview, and once I mentioned my visual impairment, they seemed instantly turned off and kind of really, really biased, like, asking many, many questions about it and I think there’s like, they thought I was going to compromise my work but I couldn’t really, I couldn’t really convince them otherwise.
Caller
This is Laurel. I’m in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. I came out here from Brooklyn. And I’ve been out of work for four and a half years, since I lost my job as a photographer. And what I’ve been noticing is that since I have to take the local bus transportation, people have been using that as an excuse to hire me by just saying well, we need to you to work until 9:00 p.m. Well, the buses stop at 6:00. So, I’ve been not getting hired and I’m really scared because my saving and everything else has run out after four an half years.
Lauri Dishman
Does anybody else have any experiences? Any success stories? I’m just curious if there have been any positive experience. One caller here mentions, she says, I, Louise, couldn’t even get an interview with an optometry practice after telling them over the phone that I was legally blind. I had previous experience working in large ophthalmologic practices. And so, and Nancy also says it’s the same for me
So, obviously this, you know, this bias, you know, this study was done and you know, we are reading about this bias and obviously from the folks that are in this room, it seems like it is evident that this bias is here. And so you know, we have a lot of questions in terms of well, what do we do? And what’s the best approach we can take in order to try to sort of defy this or to, you know, help employers overcome their bias. And that’s a very big challenge that has been place on our shoulders.
And I’m going to first sort of talk about this from the perspective from the Americans with Disabilities Act. And there is a law that is out there that was signed in 1990 where the hope was to try to ameliorate some of these challenges. Now, granted, I want to preface this by saying that I am not a lawyer, so I obviously am not an expert in the ADA, but I have read about it and I’ve heard presentations about it and read cases in terms of challenges due to it. And obviously there are some rules that employers need to follow as do candidates have their rights.
The ADA does state that an employer cannot ask a candidate about their disability before a formal offer is given. What hiring managers or what HR can ask you in an interview? They obviously can’t be direct and start talking about your disability or asking you about the cane. You know, you walk in with the can, so what’s up with that cane? You know how are you going to do the job? We obviously need someone who can drive here and you know, but clearly we know that that is breached. That people find loopholes. You know when you’re in an interview it’s one on one and it’s you versus someone else, and it’s very tough to prove that somebody is violating the ADA.
But as I mentioned that hiring managers can ask questions, such as, how will you manage your contact? How are you going to get here? You know, what’s your means of transportation to make sure you’re going to get here every day? How are you going to keep up with industry trends? The ADA does state that if an employer is going to be asking you about certain facets of your job, that they have to ask the same question to every candidate. But again, we know that that doesn’t always happen, because, again, we don’t know what’s being asked to other people that are coming into the interview?
So the ADA is there, but sometimes we know that there are loopholes. So I think that it’s important that we look at examples where there is success rather than simply looking at the 70% unemployment rate to flip the statistics around and say, you know what? There are people who are employed. There are people who are blind or visually impaired who are indeed employed. And there are folks that are successfully employed and are finding a career and are doing very, very well. I was just reading an article yesterday about a company called Convergys and their based in Cincinnati. I don’t know if anybody has read this article, but there was recently one of their employees, she was based in Dallas, and she lost her eyesight due to glaucoma. And Convergys, who is a call center, sales type of company, organization, they’re culture is to promote diversity.
So, when this person came to their manager and said you know I’ve lost my eyesight, but I would like to come back to work, they had no problem in terms of providing the right accommodations.
There are organizations out there that are very open to hiring people with disabilities. And so, and being very accommodating to them. And in fact, there was a study that was done, this is a woman named Dawn Golub did a study back in 2006. This was something that was published to what I’m going to be talking about in just a moment with this study that I mentioned by Dawn Golub. As I mentioned, she had done a study. She surveyed both the employer and the employee to find how is this working? Obviously there’s a great relationship going on and how – there’s satisfaction on both ends. And what she concluded is that there are, both sides have to come to the plate with different—being prepared to provide each other with the tools and the information and the readiness that is necessary. And it’s all based on from both sides what she calls mutual accommodation. It’s also another word might be respect.
And that is that you know, an organization, and as we mentioned with such as Convergys who recognizes diversity and recognizes that nobody in this world is perfect. That we all have something. That we’re going to have challenges. We’re human beings. We might have a physical disability, we might have an emotional challenge or an emotional disability and so they’re understanding of that and sort of give folks, you know, the idea of, you know, we respect that and so we’ll provide you with, we will treat you as if you are an equal, that you have equal value and so forth. That we’re not going to look down up on you, or put you in a hierarchy in terms of the way we’re going to view you.
But the same also goes from the perspective of the employee. That they, too, need to come to the table and be prepared and be a good, be ready to start this job with both feet running. So these are some of the things that an employee would want to come to the table, for this to work. And the first thing that they mention is blindness competencies. And competencies obviously, you know, includes being up, ready and able to do the job at hand. That you have that education or certifications of whatever training is necessary. Computer training, customer service, what not, that you have that knowledge already as you come to the table.
But there’s also the added component of blindness competencies. And that is that as someone who is blind or visually impaired, that you know that there are some things that you’ll have to learn to do differently. And it’s always beneficial to learn how to manage your environment with the help and training of professionals who are specifically trained to help people who are blind or visually impaired. So these could be folks like certified visual impairment and rehabilitation therapists. These are folks that can help you to say, okay, I’m going to be at a desk. And how am I going to make sure that my desk is manageable and that I am also able to communicate and to work effectively within the organization? So this is someone who can give you practical tools, practical information, practical technology, if you will, in order to learn how to do that.
This also encompasses mobility and having good orientation and mobility skills. So again, both blindness competencies. So working with a mobility instructor also is important.
And there’s a third component to that, too, and that is technology, as we laugh. But understanding what technology and what adaptive tools are available to you in order to know, to be familiar with what the general idea of what your job is going to be about and taking the time to think about, okay, well, how am I going to manage my contacts, for example. Or how am I going to keep track of all of my files? How am I going to? If they ask you to say, you know, we want you to keep a, you know, a filing system for the office, say you’re in an administrative position, how are you going to do that knowing that you’re visually impaired and perhaps your coworkers might not be.
So being aware of what tools, what technology, what is out there, is very helpful. I know some people don’t like Apple technology as we’ve heard, and I’m having challenges myself, but, you know, many people are turning to iPhones and Smartphones because they have apps that are leveling the playing field and allowing individuals who are blind or visually impaired to use the same technology as someone who is sighted. We may use it in a slightly different way, but it is a wonderful tool that many people are turning to. So understanding your technology is very, very important.
The next thing is to be an ambassador. And that means that, you know, obviously we talked about that bias. We’ve talked about that discomfort. That discomfort obviously from others comes from their own stereotypes, perhaps, or they’re own feat if you will. And so they may not know how to approach someone who is blind or visually impaired. They may feel uncomfortable about that. If you are an ambassador, that often times it’s suggested to set up a meeting, or maybe set some time aside during like a staff meeting or a team meeting or something to just address, you know, to answer anybody’s questions or just to say, hey, I know, I’m the new guy, I’m the new person on the job, and yes, I have this cane and you may not know how to interact or work with me and I just wanted to be the one to give you some tips. You know obviously when you enter a room, let me know who you are. Just say, use your voice and tell me. Or if you think I need help, don’t just grab my arm—ask me. You know, giving some of those blindness etiquette tips that, you know, and then that way that might help alleviate some of that discomfort.