CICA Community Roads Information Meeting
5/2/09 , 2:00 p.m.
At the pavilion
Community Members Present: Approximately 125 community members attended the meeting.
Board Members Present: Janet McKenna (President), Brian Clare (Vice President), Andrea Gilde (Secretary), David Byler, Karen Dryden, Joan Ferrick, Diana Hawley, Beth High, John Trainor
Absent: Bill Tucker (Treasurer), Sonny Hayes, and Art Wood.
The meeting was called to order at 2:09 p.m. by Janet McKenna, President. It began with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Introduction
Janet McKenna opened the meeting summarizing the meeting’s intent. It is for informational purposes only, and specific answers regarding the roads, financing, and legal issues will be provided, if possible. If questions arise that cannot be answered at the meeting, then we will follow-up with the appropriate source and provide the answers in the May 2009 mailing that includes the ballot.
[Question (Q): A community member asked if we had a handout available with our attorney’s name listed on it. Answer (A): Our attorney’s name is Robert V. Jones. We do not have a handout.]
The roads issue seems to arise every 10 years, and we are revisiting the issue again because of the community’s interest. In 2006, the Board took a poll; the two main concerns expressed were the boat ramp and the roads. In response, a committee was formed in 2007 to investigate all of the options associated with improving the roads while keeping them as private roads. This committee presented their findings at the Annual Meeting in 2008, and the community voted for the committee to continue investigating the process, cost, and pros and cons of paving our roads.
We have received many calls from community members; they have expressed a variety of concerns and praises about the possibility of paving. Janet listed those positives and negatives. For those that can’t attend the meeting, this is an opportunity for their voices to be heard.
The main concern expressed is money. At this point, we can’t give a static cost; we can only give a range due to factors such as the economy, the paving material itself, and the contractor. Don Manges will report on this later.
Janet also outlined other issues with involved with paving and/or not paving the roads. These issue were brought to her attention through conversations and correspondence from community members.
· Maintenance: Paved roads will cost less to maintain and require less maintenance.
o This is a self-help community, and it is extremely difficult to get volunteers to help maintain the roads now.. If we continue with unpaved, we may have to hire a contractor to perform maintenance.
o We don’t know what the exact short and long term maintenance costs will be.
· Health concerns:
o Paving would help the dust, and there is a health risk involved with the millings.
o There are currently no regulations prohibiting the use of millings for private roads.
· Leisure use: Paved roads would be nice for walking/running/biking
· There is concern that paved roads would feel hotter.
· Millings and asphalt are the same material.
· Home value: There is a concern that paving would have an effect on tax assessments.
· Aesthetics: Paving will improve the appearance of the roads, but some people enjoy the rural look of non-paved roads.
· Price: If we pave now, it will be cheaper than if we have to pave the roads years from now, but, especially with the economy’s state, many can’t afford the added expense.
· Life span: We paved the sections on Bennett Avenue/Caldwell Rd. approximately 13 years ago, and they remain in good condition. We are not certain if we will have long-term availability of millings.
Janet McKenna then introduced Don Manges, Chairperson of the Roads Resurfacing Committee. Three members of his committee: Bill Chase, Paul Pudlinski, and John Bates, were also present at the meeting. Don explained that he would field questions, beginning with those related to the cost of the project. Before doing so, he noted that the proposal that was sent to each community member estimated the per lot cost at $2000-$3000. He provided some clarification on this range by reporting the following numbers:
· If the roads were paved today, using the lowest bidder with a $100,000 contingency added, the cost would be a little over $1500 per lot.
· The roads may be paved in the summer, and we have been told by the contractors that this could add approximately $200,000 to the price of the job. This would bring the cost to $2140 per lot. (This assumes we choose the lowest bidder.)
· For every $100,000 in price, the price per lot increases about $300.
Question and Answer Session:
o Q: If it is more expensive in the summer, then why would we do the job in the summer?
· It is the way the timeline worked out; but the job could potentially be put off until fall. There is no guarantee of lower asphalt prices by waiting.
o Question: Why is it more expensive in the summer
§ Paving contractors are busier in the summer
§ The price of asphalt goes up in the summer and tends to be highest in August/September
· Q: Why don’t we turn the roads over to the county?
A: This committee was asked to investigate self-paving the roads (keeping them private). They were not asked to look into the pros & cons of turning them over to the county
· Q: Are all of the figures you presented estimates?
A: No, we have bid prices now. The $2000-$3000 per lot range was listed in the proposal, but to get to $3000 per lot, the price of the project would have to be $980,000—almost double what it is now. We would not do the job at that price.
· Q: Why was the decision made to make the cost per lot and not per family?
A: We need to give an equal and actual vote to the equal or actual number of lots. We are a community, subject to the law as stated by the Maryland Homeowners Association laws and each lot owner in the deeded area of Chesapeake Isle is equally responsible for the cost of maintaining the roads.The CICA is tasked with the responsibility of performing such maintenance.
· Q: Do people who live on the main road [ Turkey Point Road ] have a prorated cost?
A: No, it is the exact same cost for all lots within the deeded area of Chesapeake Isle.
· Q: Does a person who has 2 lots have to pay twice the amount?
A: Yes. They will get two votes, and would pay for two shares. [if the project is approved].
· Q: Have you looked at the cost of speed bumps? We already need them, as a lot of cars, golf carts, and delivery trucks currently speed.
A: No, we do not know the price of speed bumps. We will address that issue if it is a problem. We do not know what the speeding information will be.
· Q: Has anyone talked to the County in the last 22 years about the roads? A lot has changed since 1987. It is my understanding that is would have cost $100 per lot, excluding the Turkey Point Road people. This would have been the county specifications.
A: When we asked the county about taking over the roads, they would do it, but only after Chesapeake Isle brought them up to the county specification. All of the regulations are on their web site. We have also talked to the Road Engineer for the County, and they would pave the roads to county standards, but it is estimated that it will cost double the count it is now. In addition, 2/3 of the community would have to vote for it before they will even talk to us about it. In addition, md.gov lists all of the State rules, regulations, and statutes that we are acting under.
A number of years ago, the possibility of turning roads over to the county was investigated. It is not just a simple matter of giving CI property to the county and saying, “We’d like them paved, please”. Even if the community did vote to turn over our property, we would have to pay the cost of paving according to county standards and then give them to the county to manage/maintain. There is no guarantee that they would maintain them to any specific standard.
o We would lose the “private” roads. We would not be allowed to make our own rules for road use. We would not be allowed to plow our own snow.
o We may be forced to add curbs
o The standards for road paving are posted on the county’s website /dept_works/roadcodestandspec.cfm
Q. What is the height to which we are paving?
A. The bidding is for a 3 ? inch, rolled to 3 inch. This is ? inch higher than a driveway standard.
Q. Is this a county standard?
A. No. The county standards are more stringent. Paving to county standards would at least double the cost. They would require us to remove all the current roads material & put in a subbase. The contractors we have gotten bids from will use our current road materials as a subbase.
· Q: Would the contractor come back and take care of any weak spots in the road after it is paved?
A: Prior to paving, the contractor will seek out problematic sections and prepare them in such a way to prevent weak spots. The surface will first be regraded. Specifically, the contractors would bring in a milling machine and grind it up, since the millings we have now have been rebonded. They will then regrade, then roll. There is no sub-base. There will be the base of stone or millings and then the topping.
· Q: Will there be more than one layer of compacted material?
A: No. Just one layer compacted to 3”.
· Q: Paving of the roads has been rejected before, so why is it coming up again?
A: We are responding to the community’s requests, according to the 2006 survey.
· Q: We are revisiting paving the roads because of a poll that was taken? What was the rationale for the poll?
A: The 2006 board wanted more information about what the community was concerned about. As we mentioned before, the majority of the responses showed concerns for 2 improvements: the boat ramp and the roads. The ramp is slated to be fixed. The other was the roads. Because of this interest shown, the community requested [at the 2007 Annual Meeting] that a committee be formed to investigate road options. At the 2008 Annual Meeting, the committee presented a summary of the information they gathered, and a vote was taken for them to continue their work.
· Comment: The speed bumps must be included if we go forward. Rollins was recently paved [going up the hill from Turkey Point Road ], and as soon as people hit the unpaved road, they do slow down a little. I have seen a lot of people speeding up that road since it has been paved. It is a big concern.
Response: Speeding is definitely an issue. Many people have expressed concerns that speeding will increase in our community if our roads are paved.
· Q: We currently have paved four areas in the community because of maintenance problems. They all solved the problems that they were intended to solve. What is the thickness of these paved roads?
A: The most recent paved road on Rollins was 3-inch thickness (heavy rolled). A 12 ton or better roller was used. The first area we paved, the roads on Bennett and Caldwell were done approximately 13 years ago, and have shown no signs of wear. There is still no crazing, and no cracks. The majority of the problems in the community are the hills.
· Comment: We paved on Bennett because of washboarding and potholes.
Response: The hills are consistently high maintenance area. We have had to spend at least one to two hours per week to keep them at condition they are now. Potholes are a continual problem with millings. (Although, pot holes are excellent speed bumps except they are reversed.) It is just getting harder and harder to get people to do the work needed to maintain the roads. The roads committee spends an average of 1-2 hours per week (each person).
· Q: Why can’t we continue with what we have and just pave the problem spots?
A: This will also be an expense. The hill on Rollins, paved last September, cost $11000 (paid out of community maintenance fees) This is an informational meeting, meant to provide people with the facts so they can make an informed vote. If you do not want to pave the roads, then vote no. If you do want them paved, then vote yes. It is up to you. We are not professionals. We have done as much historical research as we could, and we have contacted many experts to gather as much information as we could. If the community votes no, we will not pave, and continue in the same fashion that we have in the past. The method in which we perform maintenance may change, however, according to the availability of volunteers and materials. The committee will do the best they can with resources available.
· Comment: When you see trucks speeding, call the sheriff. Trucks have brand names on them, and the company can be called. Many have the numbers listed on the back of the truck. When we have trouble with the power, we called and got help. You need to make phone calls if you see a problem. We are a small area, but you need to be proactive and call that number.
· Q: Basin is used as a turnaround for buses and trucks. When looking at paving, have you addressed the width?
A: The paved road would be 20 feet wide, and 16 feet on road leading to the beach. There would be a 30-foot radius on corners, which is the largest area for vehicles to turn. Residents of Basin Dr. expressed concern that the road be made thick enough to withstand the weight of a school bus/tractor trailer.
· Comment: There are a lot of concerns with speeding and traffic, including golf carts. With what we have done with the current road improvements, there are even more golf carts driving around, especially by underage, unlicensed drivers. We have gone over this issue time and time again. It is a parental responsibility. We have called the police repeatedly, but by the time they get here, they are gone. But again, it needs to be stressed that it is a parental responsibility.