There Appears to Be Some Writing on the Note

7-3-06

There appears to be some writing on the note ...

-- Start log: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:10:18 am English MOO time --
Rich (asleep) has disconnected.
CynthiaM arrives from Classrooms (all)
CynthiaM (asleep) has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart CynthiaM off to bed.
Gillian arrives from Classrooms (all)
Gillian shares a URL. (
>.
Fawn arrives from Classrooms (all)
Gillian says, "Hi Fawn"
Gillian smiles
Gillian says, ":smiles"
Gillian waves
Gillian says, "I can use emote - oh boy!"
Gillian has a large grin
Alec arrives from Classrooms (all)
Alec says, "shoots off firecracker"
Alec says, "oops...that didn't work"
CynthiaM arrives from Classrooms (all)
Alec says, "hey Cynthia"
Gillian Shoots off lots of firecrackers
CynthiaM says, "Hey, Alec"
CynthiaM says, "What's up?"
Alec [to CynthiaM]: Any word yet on our grade from Locke / Susan?
CynthiaM [to Alec]: "No. Haven't heard anything. Since the class is officially a summer class, I assumed they would not give out grades until the end of the semester. Either that or it was so bad they don't want to tell us!
Gillian says, "[to Alec] It's like a Christmas gift - you can't open it until a certain date (Christmas in Aug.)"
Alec says, "Damn"
Alec says, "Oh well...guess we'll just have to be on pins and needles for another month or so"
Alec says, "where is everyone?"
Gillian says, "Well, like the old saying goes "You will die if you open this package before Christmas""
CynthiaM [to Alec]: "So you have time to worry over a completed project?
Alec [to CynthiaM]: LOL, nope. I'm already worrying about this project...
Alec [to CynthiaM]: Only one more month to go before the paper is due
CynthiaM [to Alec]: "I'm past worrying--I'm in panic mode.
Gillian shares a URL. (
>.
CynthiaM [to Gillian]: "Don't mean to ignore you--how's it going in NM?
Gillian says, "A little comic relief"
Gillian says, "Turn on your speakers"
Barbara arrives from Current Classes
Alec [to CynthiaM]: I started an outline and then just started writing some thoughts / paragraphs as they came to me. I felt a little better, but still panicking
Barbara waves hello
Alec says, "Howdy Barb"
Gillian says, "Are you seeing this, B?"
Barbara says, "seeing what?"
CynthiaM says, "You know, I never really cared for the Momma/Eunice characters. Too much yelling for me."
Gillian shares a URL. (
>.
Gillian says, "Here B"
Rich has connected.
Kendall arrives from Classrooms (all)
Barbara says, "I'm at home on dialup. Very slow"
Gillian says, "I'll send it to you later"
Barbara says, "ok"
Gillian says, "Sorry, Cynthia"
AlisonP arrives from Classrooms (all)
Alec says, "Hey Kendall, Dr. R, and Allison..."
Gillian says, "How are you doing, Barbara?"
Janie arrives from Classrooms (all)
CynthiaM [to Gillian]: "Oh, it's not that there's anything wrong with those characters, there were other characters that I like better.
Glenn arrives from Classrooms (all)
Gillian Waves at Janie
Glenn says, "howdy!"
AlisonP says, "Hi everyone."
Barbara [to Gillian]: pretty good
Janie waves at Gilllian
Janie says, "Hi Barbara"
Gillian waves at everyone
Barbara says, "Hi Janie"
Gillian says, "Emoting in NM"
Kendall says, "Hi all!"
Rich [to Gillian]: sounds like a sit-com
Janie says, "Hi Kendall"
Gillian says, "[to Barbara] This should be the BEST part of your day - you are with us"
Kendall [to Janie]: Hi
Alec [to Rich]: Hmmm..."Rich's Mountain?" :)
Barbara LOL...but of course
AlisonP says, "Gillian, my husband and boys just drove back from Red River by way of Springer and Clovis--and noted that there are more cemeteries than live people! Glad you're alive and well in eastern NM"
Gillian says, "[to Rich] Yeah, I'll pitch it to CBS"
Gillian says, "[to Alison] Your husband is right, NM is one big grave yard"
Rich says, "billy the kid buried there?"
Gillian says, "That's why they call it "the land of death""
Gillian says, "Billy is in a nearby town"
Gillian says, "Unless someone pulled a switcharoo"
Lennie arrives from Classrooms (all)
AlisonP says, "Some folks claim they've seen him in Graceland."
Lennie says, "Haya!"
Alec says, "Hey Lennie"
Janie says, "Hi Lennie"
AlisonP says, "Ho Lennie"
Gillian says, "[to Alison] Yeah, he and Elivs and giving tours"
AlisonP says, "Ha."
Lennie says, "Hi all around. "
Gillian says, "Hi, Lennie"
Barbara says, "Hey Lennie"
Lennie says, "Hehe..."
AlisonP says, "Does "Elivs" mean Elvis is still alive?"
Rich says, "Greetings to all. Much to cover tonight; if we don't get through everything, no worries. "
Gillian says, "[to Alison] Actually, if you believe the rhetoric in the National Inq., Elvis and JFK have a bakery in FL"
Rich says, "Time will begin, when he arrives."
Alec [to AlisonP]: Apparently he's alive and well and living around some McDonalds in Kalamazoo, Michigan...
Kendall [to Gillian]: don't you mean false rhetoric?
Janie laughs
Gillian says, "[to Rich] Are we wating for Elvis?"
Rich says, "How did the study group go?"
Alec says, "Is the MOO moving slow for anyone else tonight, or is it just me?"
Gillian says, "[to Kendall] lol"
Lennie curses the network lag.
Rich says, "MOOving okay for me."
Kendall groans
Rich says, "sometimes logging off and logging back in is helpful"
Barbara says, "it was great, good discussion"
Lennie [to Alec]: The moo says the lag is zero. Try @lag
Gillian says, "[to Rich] We had a great time - Janie, Lennie, Barbara and I"
Alec says, "We're having storms here, so it may just be my connection. In and out. Hopefully it'll pick up"
CynthiaM says, "I'm on dial-up at home tonight, but so far, so good."
Alec curses the network lag.
Rich [to CynthiaM]: some of the presentations tonight will take you time to load, fiy
CynthiaM [to Rich]: "Thanks for the heads up.
Rich says, "good study sessions?"
Gillian says, "[to Rich] Nice way to study together in a low-pressure atmosphere"
Alec says, "sounds like its just my connection then"
Rich says, "Yeah, timing tight in these class sessions"
Gillian says, "[to Rich] Only wish I had thought of it sonner"
Lennie [to Rich]: We had a good study-jam session.
Gillian says, "I meant "sooner""
Rich says, "Great. Nice to hear. This material is as thick as the humidity here."
Gillian says, "Of course, only the best people showed up"
Gillian says, ":)"
Rich is in Indiana this week.
Alec says, "where in Indiana are you?"
Rich says, "Spiceland."
Rich says, "will be in Indy tomorrow"
Rich [to Alec]: close
Alec says, "And where's Spiceland? And is it run by the Spice Girls?"
Rich [to Alec]: near New Castle
Alec says, "ahhh...okay, I know the general area"
Rich says, "not too far from Muncie"
Rich says, "well, we're missing some folk so far"
Alec says, "yep. you're about 4 - 4 1/2 hours from me"
Rich says, "Time...Joel..."
AlisonP says, "Is Fawn here?"
Gillian says, "They are out blowing up fireworks"
Rich types who
Kendall says, "Yes, Fawn did you get home ok?"
Rich says, "Fawn appears to be here; might have stepped away from her computer for a sec."
Gillian says, "Question"
Lennie says, "still missing Time. "
AlisonP says, "Kendall, did you two do some body-viewing?"
Rich says, "So we'll talk about the Phaedrus and Sophist first, then move into A."
Kendall [to AlisonP]: yes we did! It was greeaaaattt!
Gillian says, "Who is the "stranger" in the Sophist?"
Fawn waves at all
Gillian says, "[to Kendall] Dead bodies?"
Fawn out in the garden
Fawn looses track of Time!
Gillian Tapping her toes
Kendall says, "Yes at the BodyWorlds exhibit--plasticized cadavers."
Kendall says, "We're glad you're back."
Fawn says, "Yes, we had a blast - Kendall and I"
Gillian says, "I have seen the real thing (in anatomy)"
Time arrives from Current Classes
Janie says, "Time is having a big of a lag time with his computer. should be here shortly"
Alec [to Kendall]: I just saw the King Tut exhibit at the Field Museum in Chicago, does that count? lol
Janie says, "the he is"
Kendall [to Alec]: sure it does.
Gillian says, "[to Alec] Yes, it does"
Janie [to Time:]: HI again
Time says, "OK - Let's talk of cabbages and kings"
Rich [to Gillian]: stranger is ambiguous...often Plato (some say), often Socrates... I've always read him as an everyman. There are books on this.
Joel arrives from Classrooms (all)
Gillian says, "Okay, I have some other questions when we get to it"
Joel sneaks in...
Rich says, "we might talk more about it when talking about being today"
Gillian says, "Bad, bad Joel"
Fawn [to Kendall]: "had a quick flight and watched the movie - very interesting
Rich says, "Seem to have some late arrivals tonight."
Time says, "I'm ready"
Joel says, "hey, being...that's a perfect entrance"
Joel says, "me, too."
Rich says, "Okay, Time. You're on. Plato's Phaedrus."
Time says, "I realize we have quite a dfew folks tofday - so I'll try and cover this pretty quickly"
Gillian points her index finger at Joel
Time says, "Keep Hope alive ... err wait - That's not me"
Joel [to Gillian:]: better than the middle finger :)
Alec [to Time]: LOL...don't forget your quilt
Rich shares a URL. (
>.
Gillian says, "[to Joel] This is a clean course"
Gillian says, "[to Time] Should we move through the slides at will?"
Time says, "This first couple of slides are pretty explanatory - this is the overview and I will look at each of these sections a bit more closely"
Time says, "So, scan the Overview and let's move on to #3 Lysias'"
Time says, "Gillian/All - I'll tell you what slide I am on"
Time says, "#3"
Rich nods
Gillian says, "k"
Time says, "Mnnnn, I have little elsde here - un less there are questions, let's go on to #4"
Rich has no questions.
Joel says, "k"
Barbara nods
Time says, "o To keep the contest fair, Phaedrus insists that Socrates argue the same topic and side of the argument. As the focus is really about quality rhetoric, the victory goes to the superior arrangement and development, as opposed to the more clever argument - this supports Plato's emphasis on form and style over content."
Time says, "o Socrates criticizes the speech for its random arrangement (lack of a head that leads the topic). Thus, he brings organization/structure to his own speech. Also, he opens his speech discussing the importance of structure and that a speech should begin with a clear definition of the topic (which Lysias' did not)."
Time says, "2. Delivery"
Time says, "o Socrates is not impressed by the speech (other that Phaedrus' reading of it) and is increasingly unimpressed that it is written. We see again that Plato finds writing a poor substitute for the live, oral speech that is alive and with soul. In contrast to Lysias' speech, Socrates gives his speech impromptu."
Rich says, "What is an impromptu?"
Fawn says, "off the cuff"
Time says, "Imprompto - off the cuff"
Time says, "Makes it up[ on the sp[ot"
Lennie . o O ( sounds like Gorgia's style... )
Rich says, "It's something that is actually very well planned but APPEARS to be off the cuff"
Time says, "spot"
Alec says, "on the spot presentation...no prep"
Glenn says, "faked lack of prep "
Time says, "mnnnn - yea, I'd say that you could make a decent imporomptu speech if you knwew the subject"
Gillian says, "Time, are you still on 2?"
Alec [to Rich]: Wouldn't that be extemporaneous?
Lennie says, "I don't see P's critique here as definitely a slam on writing."
Rich says, "planning comes from knowledge ... perhaps of the topoi"
Time says, "Well, the was #4"
Time says, "that was #4"
Time says, "We can go onto #5"
Joel [to Lennie:]: I agree
Gillian says, "Okay, you put a 2 up there; I was confused"
Lennie says, "K"
Time says, "... when we are done dicussing #4"
Time says, "Wait"
Gillian says, "[to Time] I see, you meant 2 on 4"
Fawn [to Rich]: "is it knowledge of topoi or copia?
Time says, "Let's stay on #4 and I'll address Lennie - "
Rich is on 4
Lennie nods
Rich [to Fawn]: probably both, but that's tangential here
Time says, "The slam on writing, in part, is that it is suggested to be complete (since it is put down and presented). Also, the text can not engage in discourse"
CynthiaM says, "Why was there so much concern over appearing unprepared/unrehearsed? "
Rich says, "speech to text software would have blown Plato's mind."
Time says, "On the point of writing being sufggest as complete, Plato would have difficulty with this since things can change"
Lennie [to Time]: I think you are right to point out that P put higher regard on dialectic, but you can't ignore his "delivery" in getting that message across.
Joel [to Lennie:]: wasn't that part of the training in Plato's academy?
Rich thinks the dialogue, while appearing random, is well planned.
Janie [to Cynthia:]: to better address the subject/audience at hand
Gillian says, "[to Rich} sort of like a performance"
Rich nods.
Gillian says, "Hard work that is made to look simple"
Time says, "Ohhh, I see what you are saying - Yes, that is HUGE. True and true: he DID use the written message for his delivery."
Lennie [to Gillian]: Well put.
Gillian says, "[to Lennie] Thankss"
Rich says, "we're a literate culture peering in to a largely oral culture, of course."
CynthiaM [to Janie]: "Right. But it just seems odd to me that so much work went into looking spontaneous.
Time says, "OK, Onto #5"
Gillian says, "[to Cynthia] How so? Presidents do that all the time. EX.: Reagan"
Fawn [to CynthiaM]: "perhaps that was the way to look "cool"
Joel [to CynthiaM_Janie:]: that was a valuable skill - extemporaneous was part of intelligence/reasoning
Gillian says, "Reagan's jokes were certainly well-planned, but made to appear spontaneous"
Rich says, "being spontaneous, in a way, is the appearance of reacting to an audience"
Time says, "I have little else for this slide - consider it an overview of the Paliniode and let's go to #6 and look more closely at it."
Lennie finds Plato's metaphysics here a bit bizarre. I wonder what he had been smoking...
Time says, "#6"
Joel [to Gillian:]: except that "bombing starts in 10 minutes, one :)
Gillian says, "[to Joel] lol"
Time says, "o This is sort of a second half of the Phaedrus, separate from the three speeches"
Time says, "o However, to call the discourse the 2nd combines the three speeches as if the 3rd (palinode) were like the other two. Many scholars (notably Anne Lebeck) finds it more reasonable to consider the Phaedrus in three parts: the palinode framed on either side by rhetorical considerations."
Gillian says, "[to Joel] My point is that modern rhetoricians do the same thing"
Janie [to Gillian:]: I agree
Gillian says, "It makes it appear that they really understand the audience"
Time says, "To the 3rd bullet - o Thus, true rhetoric leads one to knowledge, as opposed to belief."
Joel [to Gillian:]: very true
Rich [to Time]: do you think the 3 evaluation criteria stand today?
Lennie [to Time]: Good point.
Joel [to Gillian:]: let me get out my jokes for tonight's presentation!
Time says, "OKay - allow me to introduce a bit more on the related topic of Truth:"
Time says, "o Related topic of truth - Also, knowing the truth of a topic makes for effective (and true) rhetoric. "
Time says, "o So, what makes for quality writing/speaking? According to Socrates (Plato), to speak well and nobly, one must know the truth about the topic that he or she is going to discuss. He suggests that rhetoric is an art (not just an artless practice)."
Gillian says, "[to Janie, Joel] This is one way to apply ancient rhetoric to modern day oratory"
Time says, "o But this, I think, is shameful: not speaking or writing well, but doing it shamefully or badly (258d4-5)"
Time says, "o Then, isn't it necessary for those who intend to speak well and beautifully to have before all else a discursive understanding of the truth about the subject he means to discuss? (259e)"
Rich likes the term 'artless practice'
Time says, "o Above all, my darling boy, there is only one way to begin for those who wish to deliberate successfully: they must know what they are deliberating about, or else completely miss the mark. (237c-d)."
Barbara says, "would this be the same or similar to Ari's special topoi?"
Gillian says, "[to Barbara] I think that is right"
Lennie says, ""All great art demands discussion and speculation about nature [ie Truth]" (162)."
Joel thinks Rich planned Phaedrus to lead into Sophists...very smartly
Rich says, "topoi are much expanded"
Joel Sophist
Time says, "Do I think the 3 criteria stand today? I think so. I mean, we can look at and evaluate speeches on a variety of diffrerent criteria. But, yes, I think these 3 are valid and useful."
Rich nods.
Gillian says, "[to Lennie] Yes, and you can find that in humor, or music, or any other way that people choose to communicate"