Town of Mantua Council Meeting December 7, 2017

The Town of Mantua Council Meeting

Held on December 7, 2017

6:30 p.m. at Town Hall

Council Members in attendance: Mayor Mike Johnson, Brett Kearl, Phil Facer, Nathan Blaine and Jan Palmer-Recorder

Audience in attendance: George Wouden, Bill Jeppesen, Brenda Dixon and Harper Johnson

Bill Jeppesen land remnant survey: Nathan thanked Bill for being here and asked if he knew Nathan was on the agenda about Bill’s land. Bill said he did hear something about it. The Mayor said Nathan has to recuse himself because the nature of the subject. Nathan said this is in regards to the piece of property that Bill was going to split between the Town and himself. He asked Bill if that was the understanding, that it would be split in half. Bill said Nathan is forgetting the south piece where Bill is adding footage to Nathan’s property which the Town didn’t get. Nathan said he remembered we were going to take the north line and pick a mid-point on that and then take the south line and pick a mid-point on that and then divide it. Bill told the people who divided his property where that line would be, he told them to include the land to the south in the division of the land. Bill reminded Nathan there was some discrepancies when Nathan bought the house from Bill, where some of Bills land went on Nates and it cut the corner, so Bill told him, since he is going across his he would give Nathan more property to the east also, just to make it right. Nathan said he is only talking about the property to the west. Bill said he did this on his own free will nobody talked to him about it. He just wanted to make it good for the Town and Nathan, so he decided to donate the land to both of them. Bill has spent a lot on Nathan’s side of the property where he put in the rock and twice he has had to move his survey and he has footed that bill. Nathan said he has only requested Bill to move the survey one time. Bill said in order to do the curves and everything else, he had to do it twice, he has got over $5000.00 invested in that. He just wants to make it right and make everyone happy, so that is what he did. The Mayor said we had talked to Bill sometime in the past regarding that section of property and we discussed that it would be a beneficial piece of property to the Town for various reasons. When it came to a point where Nathan had a conflict of interest with that property and we discussed it here in our meeting and the Council decided not to buy it, either I or Harper told Bill the results of that vote, and he can’t remember if Nathan was here for that vote or not. At that point no more was said to Bill. Billy came to the Mayor later and said he had decided to split that property and give half of it to the Town. But right now that piece of property Bill gave to the Town has been duly recorded and does belong to the Town, and he feels it was very generous of Bill to do that. Neither the Mayor nor anyone else from the Town went to Bill and made any suggestions as to what he should do. Nathan said he is not making any accusations. He went and got a survey done and that corner of the property the Town owns is in conflict with his piece of property. But his understanding is we were going to split that in half. Bill said he is going by what the surveyor said. What he did, added about a third of an acre to Nathan’s property. Nathan just wants to know if Bill could make it right and split the property on the west in half also. Bill said he already did with what land was given to him on the south of the property, they took the total square footage and split that in half. Nathan said that was not what his understanding was, he thought we were going to split just the west side in half. The Mayor said any conversations you have with Billy are of a private nature, so what do you have for the Council. Nathan said his understanding would be that the property would be split in half so he had a survey done that showed a center line. He said the corner line of that property actually overlaps with his property according to the survey he had done. The Mayor asked how many feet or inches are we talking about? Nathan said he is sure it is in feet. Bill asked if he could approach. Bill said it doesn’t matter because it is part of the land he just donated to Nathan. After looking at the map Bill thinks they need to talk to the surveyors because there are some discrepancies on where Nathan’s and the Town’s property line is. Nathan said he still understood that Bill was going to split that west piece in half. Bill said he did but he included what he gave Nathan on the south side of his land also. He said he is not charging Nathan anything for the land,so you know, look a gift horse in….. He is giving him the same amount of land with the west and south as he gave to the Town. Nathan said on the GIS it shows that line goes onto his landscaping. Bill said that is why he has another deed showing they are getting that corrected. Bill pointed out to Nathan on the east side he has tried to correct an area that was a problem. The Mayor asked Nathan where he thinks the Town is encroaching on his property. Nathan pointed to an area on the map. Bill thinks one of the surveyors were wrong. Harper thinks a lot in doing those surveys is someone understanding Mantua. Bill showed Nathan on the map where is was split equally but Nathan is concerned because that is not his actual property line. Bill said they took it off the deed. He said he had it all surveyed then cut it in half. The Mayor said we need to cut to the chase, what can the Town do for you Nathan. The first thing he was concerned about the corner, but that will be up to the surveyors, the other thing is he was hoping we could cut that area in half. Bill feels he did it fair for both parties. Nathan just wanted to get a feel from the Town as to what they thought the agreement was. Brett said, that is just the point, there was no agreement, Billy approached the Town to donate the land. There were no negotiations. Billy said the Town did not approach me, this was all my own doings. The Mayor asked Nathan if he feels the Town’s property is encroaching on his legal property and does he feel the Town should pay for a survey or should Nathan. The Mayor doesn’t have a problem with the survey himself. Bill thinks it might be different with another surveyor. Harper thinks it is our obligation to get a survey done. Phil said then we get a survey and it is different than what we have now then they will still have to work it out. Brett thinks the surveyors need to go back to each other and figure it out.

Nathan said apparently there was no agreement with splitting that land in two. Bill said the Town didn’t know anything about it until he came in to present the Town with the land. Nathan said the Mayor said you said something before that. Bill said he told the Mayor he had a solution for both parties, that is all that was said, he never told him what he was doing. The Mayor asked if the Town did another survey would Nathan accept that as a compromise. Nathan said he spent a lot of money for his survey, he would be surprised if it came up with something different. Bill said he did too, he paid a lot for his survey. The Mayor said he is looking at those line and can’t for the life of him see why there should be a conflict. Phil said they look straight to him, he knows living here his whole life, that property lines that have been off over 40 feet in the north end of Town. Brett asked Nathan if he has a legal description of that land. Nathan said he does but he looks at legal descriptions and doesn’t understand what it means. Brett said your surveyor should be able to tell you. Nathan said the way the surveyor was talking he thinks the discrepancy is about three feet. Bill said that is the part he can’t understand, since there is 60 feet we are talking about and you are saying we have already encroached on your property three feet. Nathan said no, the property is 30 feet. Phil asked why this discrepancy wasn’t caught the first time the property was sold to Nathan. Nathan said because it was deeded with the title company with a legal description but there was no survey done at that time. The Mayor asked Nathan, do we have an answer yet, what do you want the Town to do, he doesn’t think we are ready to say one survey is right and one is wrong, he is not qualified to do that. Nathan said the surveyor said there was enough play in it that the whole line in the deed could be moved over, he doesn’t know why he did that. Nathan asked the surveyor why he did that in an email yesterday but he never heard back from the surveyor. The Mayor thinks we need to table this until we have a full Council here to decide if we want to spring for a new survey. But right now without a quorum since Brett had to leave we can’t make a decision. The Mayor thinks it would be highly unusual to have the property line 60 feet out whack. So unless Nathan has another suggestion we need to move along. Nathan said it doesn’t sound like the Town wants to budge on giving up any property. The Mayor thinks that property would be beneficial to the Town, there is a lot that can be done with that extra strip of property. There are quite a few options that are available for the Town, to use that piece of property, but he doesn’t want to get into tonight. As Council Members they are obligated to do what is right for the Town, not necessarily what is right for another Council Member. He knows Nathan has recused himself on this none the less Nathan is still a Council Member and he thinks that should be our primary objective is to see what is best for the Town. He thinks if the Town decides to pay another survey that is more than fair. He doesn’t have a problem with the lines that are on the map currently, but if there is a legal conflict then we may be obligated to move our line one way or another, but if there is not we aren’t obligated. That is his position. Phil feels the same, we are here to serve the Town’s people, we have a survey that has been done and paid for by Nathan and one done and paid for by Billy. So we have two surveys that apparently can’t be agreed on, so do we get a third that will cost us again, what would we do then flip a coin. We would need a three headed coin at that point. Bill said he did not do this in the intent to make problems, he just wanted to benefit both parties. Phil said the Town does appreciate the land Bill donated to them. The Mayor thinks as far as the Town’s business is concerned that the Council would be remised to not accept and keep that parcel of land that was donated to the Town, it will be of benefit to the Town. Nathan will have to talk to the surveyor, for some reason he thought he could move the whole line over. The Mayor thinks maybe if the two surveyors got together they could work it out.

Insurance: Brenda gave the Council a handout on the insurance. She explained we have already renewed our liability insurance for the year, but they said they can adjust it. Right now we have a two million dollar liability limit but the governmental immunity, which is the amount a person can sue a government entity, is at 2.5 million right now. It keeps going up it used to be 2 million and that is why we have had a 2 million dollar policy but now it is 2.5 million. So if someone were to sue the Town for 2.5 million we would have to come up with the other half a million. So they are suggesting that we raise that limit, but they don’t have a 2.5 policy they only have a 5 million dollar policy. Their reasoning for doing this is in the handout, showing claims that have happened in Utah, but there were some that surpassed the 2.5 million. It shows an automobile accident and a third party injury and a civil right violation went up over 4 million dollars. These are actual cases in Utah, so he is suggesting we do the 5 million dollar policy. It does show that is a $3500 increase per year for the Town. But what the agent told her is you get 150% more coverage for only a 25% increase. Harper pointed out that a lot of time in a lawsuit they ask how much insurance you have. Brenda said right and then go after what you have.

Phil asked what the TAP Grant was on the information sheet. The TAP Grant is called a trust accountability account, they are trying to sell it to Brenda by saying you have three requirements you need to fill they are, you have to have a safety committee, you have to provide motor vehicle records to the insurance company for all employees that drive our vehicles, the Police department has to subscribe with Lexi pool or some other company that will oversee their policies, manuals and updates and do incident reporting. She had them send her the information, it is 19 pages, the application alone would take hours to complete. You would need a safety committee, you would do trainings, you would need to train employees on safety issues, you need an Executive Safety Accountability Report and an office safety audit performed monthly, you have to have a return to work program for anyone who is injured, you have to have property damage and incidents investigation reports if anything happens. Brenda was talking to Chief Zilles and they were doing this at his last job and it cost them more money just to do these reports in wages than they saved. The Mayor said he is not in favor of it. Brenda sees it could be a bookkeeping nightmare filling out all of their reports on a monthly basis. Nathan thinks if the cap is 2.5 million then at 5 million you are paying for a lot of service you don’t need. He would like to know if it is 2.5 per year or insistence. It is a liability for the Town to have that extra open liability, for an extra $3500 he thinks it might be worth it for the Town to take the risk. Brenda doesn’t understand why there isn’t a policy at 2.5 million. Phil asked if we can shop around for insurance. Harper thinks we should check with some other cities. Brenda explained we have already paid for this coming year, so we have a year to shop around. The Mayor said there may be some other options out there. This same company was exposed for a bunch of fraud so he wouldn’t mind if we shopped around. He agrees with Nathan, but on the other hand what if the Town got sued and had to come up with that much money. The Council agreed they should look around for another insurance company.

Brenda said we talked about insuring the water tanks at one time and she is not sure what we decided on that. Nathan asked would it be on property damage or if someone hurt themselves on it. Brenda said it would be on property damage. Nathan thinks our Water Enterprise Fund is pretty well funded if there was damage he thinks we could cover it. Brenda said they could insure it for $1000 annually but they need more information on it. Harper said we could get all that information from Chris Wight, he has that on file. That was to cover both tanks. Brenda will get the information to Harper and he will get it to Chris. Harper wondersif that includes earthquake insurance since that is where we would incur the most damage. Brenda said the estimate they gave us is a rough estimate they want all the information before they give us a firm estimate.

Brenda said at the last meeting she was at, where we talked about insurance, she said something that was incorrect. She said we insured the contents of this building for $200,000, that was not right we insured it for $100,000.

Conditional Use Permits: The Mayor said he would like to plan a work meeting to discuss these. We will hold a meeting on January 25, 2017.

Departments:

Financial: Brenda has been asked a couple of times about how many people are paying online. She knows there are over 100 people she is emailing and most of those are paying online. To date in 2017 we have collected over $48,000 in credit cards and have paid just over $1300 in fees. The Mayor asked if it saves that much work. Brenda said it does save a lot of work, she would say that $1300 is covered in just her and Jan’s wages.