The Ertach Kernow Boardand Forum Has Been Created by the Cornwall Devolution Deal, Signed

Minutes

Meeting Title: / Heritage Kernow Forum (Ertach Kernow)
Date: / 23rd June 2016
Time: / 11.15am
Location: / Council Chamber, New County Hall
Chaired by: / Dan Ratcliffe [DR]
Membership: / See attached attendance list. Organisations indicated below where known or specified. Attendees can also sit in the Forum in their own right, and not necessarily as representing another organisation.
Apologies & additional attendees

Minutes

Action

1 Introductions

Dan Ratcliffe [DR] welcomed Forum Members to the meeting of the Heritage Kernow [Ertach Kernow] Forum.

Set out aims:

The Ertach Kernow Boardand Forum has been created by the Cornwall Devolution Deal, signed by Government and Cornwall Council in 2015, to ‘develop a local vision for heritage’.
The Ertach Kernow Board [EKB] consists of key sector partners (see forthcoming website for details) and forms an executive body.
Attendance to the Ertach Kernow Forum [EKF] is open to all with a relevant interest –although meetings will be necessarily limited by size of venue/admin.

Outlined format of meeting

A number of organisations had set up posters and information stations in the Long Gallery – hopefully members had already had an opportunity to look and undertake some networking prior to start of Forum meeting.
Both Board and Forum members had requested opportunity to present some emerging themes; the Board want to developthese in relation toCornishheritage
To be followed by open discussion session.

2

/ Boardpresentations
Dan Ratcliffe outlined wider environmental and cultural programmes within which EKF operates –in particularthe key CornishDistinctiveness project.
Simon Hickman(Historic England [HE])
Theme - what can HE do better?
Offered suggestions for discussion:

More open decision making
Collaboration on designation research
Collaboration/consultationon Scheduled Monument consent
Better promotion and offer of HE services and expertise

Brian Rogers(working in partnership with Kowethas, Cornish Language Partnership)
Theme - The Cornish language as part of Distinctiveness

Reported on a recent Breton/Cornish camp at Tehidy
looked toward chances to learn from Breton experience to place culture and history as a meaningful(educational) resource for the future

Additional comments by Loveday Jenkin (Cornwall Councillor [CC]) on central role of Cornish language as:

as intangible cultural heritage,
as a mechanism -history is mediated through language,
as tangible heritage - part of our everyday life [we all actually know some Cornish, even if only place names]
as the first thing that makes Cornwall distinctive

Urged every heritage project to engage with the language as a means of expressing heritage
DRagreed we want this to be part of Distinctiveness; Cornwall Historic Environment Record does record place names as part of the monuments dataset, interpreting the Cornish meanings to help interpret the sites and landscapes.
Collette Beckham (Cornwall AONB)
Themes –

Outlined the historic environment aspects of the recently adopted Cornwall AONB management plan:

Local distinctiveness is key element of what AONB is all about – management plan highlights 3 key themes
Designation
Scheduled Monument management (24% of SMs at risk in Cornwall are in the AONB)
Local character
AONB policies give opportunities
to improve designation
for Sensitive interpretation
to understand value of historic environment sector taking natural capital approach
to understand contrasting character –using HLC and seascape as tools
for conserving the everyday
Issue is that AONB is equivalent status to National park, but do not necessarily see that reflected in decision making by statutory authorities

Wanted to promote the idea of developingthemes of natural capital into heritage capital
And promote theimportanceof research, understanding, investment, education, interpretation, bringing at risk features back into beneficial use = The virtuous cycle –understanding leads to investment

DR response –AONB have provided a good template for a 1st draft for HeritageStrategy for Cornwall
Delia Brotherton - Gorsedh Kernow

Gave notice of Annualconference – concerned with‘border at risk’ - the issue of Devonwall
Also raised issue of ‘The Heritage Presence’ in Cornwall, in particular the lack, or apparent lack, of any heritage organisation at the Royal Cornwall Show – in part because of the poor location offered within the show; as a sector we need to up our presence
Gorsedh are looking to create a culturalhub for theRoyalCornwall Show – needs to be at the centre of the show, as in the centre of Cornish cultural life.

There was broad agreement in the Forum that this was worth us all supporting and contributing to.
Wil Scutt - English Heritage [EH]

Outlined EH role post divide:

now purely a charity
Given a dowry from government as part of the start-up–but not enough to fill £250m backlog needed to maintain sites
A few major sites like Stonehenge make money and subsidises the majority of other sites

Aim is to keep economicactivity local, and to engage local communities

Bert Biscoe CC

Set out issuescoming out of his research prompted by events at Tintagel, but more widely applicable:

Lack of public scrutiny on Scheduled Monument casework
HE/EH split – the apparent Chinese wall is insufficient –trustees of English Heritage appointed by Historic England.
SM/SSSI/AONB conflicts in policy and legislation – which takes precedence if one application affects different types of constraint? Are they in practice of equal strength? Is there adequate cross-consultation?
Lack of clarity and transparency around the split between EH & HE, the money, the governance; DCMS reluctant to give terms and conditions of HE-EH transfer- unlike CC and local government which all has to be transparent and accountable

BB suggests Ertach Kernow partners join together to go to Government and require reform in process/scrutiny/access to information to comply with standards of public scrutiny already required locally.

There followed an open discussion session, much of which centred on the issues of the role of HE/EH, and the effective use of existing local powers(the following commentary incorporates all the speakers’ comments, although not necessarily in the order presented).
Craig Weatherhill

has seen no devolution –just bits of delegation
Where did the money come from for the Tintagel debacle? Lack of transparency in how projects affecting Cornwall are set-up and funded.
scheduling – no new site scheduled for 29 years – significant sites remain completely unprotected – designation reform needs to be prioritised.

Ian Saltern
Cornwall is the only protected nation in UK that doesn’t enjoy devolved powers fromthe Palace of Westminster
Sarah Tresidder [Gorsedh]

The names Historic England/English Heritageremain a barrier to acceptance in Cornwall
A devolved organisation or section that became ‘Cornish Heritage’ may help both HE/EH in Cornwall.

Colin Roberts [‘off the streets’]

names are to some extent cosmetics, power to act is what’s needed

So what power does the Board and Forum have?
Does Board and Forum have a vison which will be shared to get powers to Cornwall

Collette Beckham

It’s as much about us locally taking power as it is HE/government giving us power
Heritage board and Forum should be pursuing CC as much as HE

Julian German[CC]
There appears to be a sense that many of the decisions and issues we’re talking about are ‘above our pay grade’ –if that’s the case, we need to have the people at this table who can make the decisions, who can answer questions about the long term nature of HE/EH/ nationalpolicy etc. – senior officers from both national and CC organisations need to be here.
Brian Rogers

Assets are not just buildings/sites, but people and their emotions and responses too
Assets, in the sense of what people bring with them, are crucial to future success

Loveday Jenkin [CC]

there is a perceived issue with Planning not giving the weight to decisions that heritage specialists are giving
Because it is not ‘statutory,’ heritage advice seems to be ignored
We need to increase the value of that advice – may be the Board can do something
Also need to focus on different understanding of historic environment, picking up theme of people as assets:
Dichotomy between the focus on structures and the wider landscape/community/cultural/ intangible heritage
Money for repairing monuments only worth spending if people are engaged in the process
Very small amount of money spent on people understanding that heritage would go a long way
Cultural bias comes from central bodies that don’t understand the importance of the landscape to Cornwall
Protection of Cornish hedges and hedgerows
Carnmenellis – a whole corner of Cornwall with no discernible protection

Leslie trotter – pointed out that as well as making best use of local powers there are local resources that could also be made much better use of – Institute of Cornish Studies = a research body in Cornwall which can support the research; Cornwall Association of Local Historians; Od Cornwall Societies etc.
Responses:
Simon Hickman[HE],Ross Simmonds [HE], Will Scutt[EH] in response –agreed with manyof Councillor Biscoe’s comments:–

should be greater transparency in decision making and governance

communication had been ‘less than clear’
issues about separation - perception was an issue as much as the reality of the situation; apparent weak‘Chinese Wall’separation is in part a matter of timing -the 2 trusts are continuing to separate physically and organisationally and will eventually become much more distinct.
HE could improve enforcement response on SMs
name change/devolved local responsibility probably is something to be aimed for, but needs recognition by all parties that such change will not happen overnight (the problem being HE/EH being part of a national organisation).

DR response
Much of the problem here was not simply about what EH and HE did –there may be validcriticism about non-transparentprocesses and decision makingwith national bodies criticized for decisions and interference where often its only because existing local powers are not used to the full that HE become involved. The board has already raised theissue about greater use ofexistingpowers and controls locally:

Article 4 Directions
Local Listing
Local heritage @ risk registers
Use of enforcement powers
Conservation area designation and management plans demonstrably influencing decisions
WHSmanagement plandemonstrably influencing decisions
AONBmanagement plandemonstrably influencing decisions

In response as to where power lies in the Board/Forum – the power is in the people around the Board table– so the members have the powers not so much in the Board per se.
Simon Hickman added:

need also to think in longer term and coordinating strategies for managing historic environment in Cornwall – e.g. AONB management plan only lasts 5 years whereas Local Plan is 20years
issue is to have national resources to draw on irrespective of what the local organisation is called

in response to Councillor Jenkin’s comments – couldn’t agree more, Planning tends to see things in black and white; HE trying to change that by offering training; the other side of the coin may indeed be to review designation.

Ross Simonds –agreed with Loveday and Brian et al – we in a sense do have the power in this room - we can do something about it – need to use Forum/Board to focus that

Nick Cahill added by saying Historic environment team aware of issues of lack of resources, designations, weight in decision making – are pursuing use of local communities/neighbourhood planning groups etc. to harness local enthusiasm and engage greater locally.
Mike Chappell
–encouraged by what HE is saying
–people are the key to the way forward
–need to engage with our heritage to release the power for it to be transformative
–to quote a well-known phrase ‘Our future is history’
–need to create quality tourism based on the realities of our culture and heritage rather than destructive mass tourism
–We do need to seize power
–We canturn out thousands for our cultural heritage (people and pounds!)
DR – felt MC’s comments were an excellent place to draw meeting to aclose, thanked all for attending and contributing.
Date of Next meeting: TBC by email.

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