ROMANS CHAPTER 10 - STUDY LED BY 75
WALT HENRICHSEN - HONG KONG - MARCH, 2000
CHAPTER 10 OVERVIEW AND OUTLINE
WALT - Let me note with you that chapter 10 is not a break in thought, because the keys words of righteousness, faith and law, continue, especially at the beginning of the chapter. Thus in this chapter, Paul shows that the gospel has been extended to all nations. So, verses 1-4, as in Romans 9, are conciliatory, setting the reason for the Jews rejection. I entitled it "consolation for the Jew." In verses 5-10, he shows that the gospel is accessable to the Jews and Gentiles alike, so I entitled it, "Christ's message is accessable to all." And in 11-17, he notes that since the gospel has been adapted to all, it should be preached to all, so I simply titled that, "Christ's message is preached to all." Finally, verses 18-21, Paul closes with the Old Testament prediction that the Gentiles would be included. So I entitled it, "Calling of the Gentiles predicted in the Old Testament." Now, when we get to the last paragraph, one of the things I want to wrestle with, with you, is Paul dealing with the rejection of the gospel? Or is he dealing with the call of the Gentiles?
SOMEONE - Could you repeat that please?
WALT - Yes. The way I titled this, I say the calling of the Gentiles is predicted in the Old Testament. I'm asking, is that really true? Is that the theme? Or, is the theme the rejection of the gospel by the Jews? And it depends on how you understand a couple of pronouns.
LEE - The early Roman Catholic Church thought that they were there because the Jews had rejected. But if you change a pronoun, then it's a different story that God all along intended to call the Gentiles. The Gentiles did not get called just because the Jews rejected. Had Jesus Christ not been crucified by the Jews who rejected him, then we would not have a Gentile church.
WALT - I'm not sure that's accurate.
LEE - If you believe the last paragraph of Romans 10 is Paul postulating that God called the Gentiles, not because the Jews rejected, but that he called the Gentiles, right? Then it would have implications to the gospel, how Jesus got crucified, right?
WALT - I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's true. When we get to that, let's work through it and explain why the dots have to be connected.
LEE - If God ordained it, God had the Jews crucify Christ. And if Christ clearly said that he was Messiah, and he's accepted as Messiah, there's no room for the Gentiles.
WALT - See, the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man hit each other in those kinds of points. God determined from before the foundation of the world, "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated." But does that mean that Adam and Eve had to sin? If Christ died from before the foundations of the world, were Adam and Eve set up? The answer is no. Jesus made the offer of the kingdom to his generation, and they rejected him (Matt 12). What if they had accepted him? Would that have precluded his going to the cross? And the answer is no. So there is simply no way you can get those together. So we say that the Jews should have never rejected him, but if they had not, we'd have been in a pickle. We'd be in serious trouble. We are simply left with the tension between the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. Before we go to lunch, let me ask this question. Is there any relationship between chapters 10 and 4, and if so, what is it?
LEE - In chapter 4 it talks about Abraham being called before he was a Jew, and this is a similarity here.
WALT - OK, anything else?
STUDENT - Both talk about salvation by faith.
WALT - All right, yes, the centrality of faith. The importance of faith as a condition. And we talked about the fact that the content was not the important thing. Believing whatever God revealed was the important thing. Here we find the Jews refusing to believe what God revealed. So we come back again to the same issue we talked about on more than one occasion, the peril of picking and choosing revelation. Is that clearly ambiguous?
STUDENT - [a question on content - couldn't understand]
WALT - The content of faith is not critical. What is critical is that you believe whatever the content is. Abraham was not required to believe what the Jews of Jesus' day were required to believe, because God did not reveal to Abraham what...... So with the privilege of revelation comes the responsibility of believing. What Abraham and the Jews of Jesus' day had in common was that they could not pick and choose. The content itself is not important. It's that I believe whatever content God gives me, that is the important thing.
VICTOR - With more revelation, there will be more responsibility, and this is how chapter 10 differs from chapter 4.
WALT - Yes. Yes...... (lunch break).
VERSES 1-4 - CONSOLATION FOR THE JEW
WALT - In verse 2, where he says they have a zeal, but not according to knowledge, the Greek word was the word that was used to put "zeal" into the English language. What exactly was their problem?
ANTHONY - They had a misdirected zeal trying to establish their own righteousness.
HK Romans, Ch 10, page 2 76
WALT-Howdoesamanhaveamisdirectedzeal? Isitwillfulorisitignorant? ParticularlyinthecaseofIsrael,isPaulchargingthemwithamisdirectedzealthatcouldhavebeenavoided? Ifso,how?
VICTOR-InChinesewehaveawordfortrueknowledge,butIsay,forexample,Paulhimselfthoughthehadtheknowledgeandthathewasprotectinghisfaith,andhehadzeal. That'sthereasonhepersecutedChristians.
WALT-Excellent,Victor. Wouldyousaythenthatthere'snodifferencebetweenthemisdirectedzealofPaulandthemisdirectedzealofthepeoplehe'sreferencingintheseverses?
VICTOR-Idon'tknow.
WALT-Howabouttherestofyou? We'retalkingaboutzealforGod,butnotaccordingtoknowledge.
RICHARD-Zealoftheflesh.
WALT-IsthatdifferentfromthezealPaulhad...... Paul'szealfortherighteousnessofGodbeforehisconversion...... anydifferencefromthezealofthesepeoplehe'saddressing?
RICHARD-TheonlydifferenceisthatPaulwasunderregeneration,whilethesepeoplewerenot,becausetheirheartswerehard.
WALT-WellRichard,whenPaulwasconfrontedontheroadtoDamascus,Jesusneverchargedhimwithawrong. Hesimplysaid,"Whydoyoupersecuteme?" Hedidnotsaythathewasinunbelief,orthatheviolatedanyoftheexpectationsofGod. Isthattrueforthesepeopleaswell?
LEE-Ithinkhe'ssayingthesepeopleareonfireforGod,yettheyjustdon'tknowthattheyaremissingit.
WALT-Thattheyaremissingthemarkisobvious. That'sthepoint. ButishesayingthatthesepeoplearejustlikeIwasbeforeImetJesusontheroadtoDamascus?
SOMEONE-NeverdidJesussayPaulwasnot( ?? ).
WALT-Yeah,there'sgottobeadifferencehere. Thethingyouhavetowatchoutforwithzealisthetemptationtodefineitonyourownterms. Menwhoarezealousforacausetendtofeelthattheirzealgivesthemlicensetoparticipateastheyseefit.
ANTHONY-Butthemotivationisgood.
WALT-Right. Imissedthepointthatyouweremaking,Calvin,pleasesayitagain.
CALVIN-Thereareafewthatthemotivationisgood,andGodpassesjudgmentonmymotivation. Ifmymotivationisgoodorcorrect,thenwhycondemn( ?? ).
STUDENT-Soareyousayingthathereisonlythebehavior,action?
WALT-Whatwereyougoingtocommentonthat,Thomas?
THOMAS-Tobezealousistobeferventforacause. ButthemotivebehindcouldbemorethansimpledesiretoserveGod.
WALT-Well,thezealisforGod,hesays,doesn'the?
SEVERAL-Yes.
WHENZEALBECOMESAPROBLEM
WALT-I'dliketosuggest,paradoxically,Israel'szealforGodbecametheirproblem,theirbarrier. It'sallrightforyoutobezealousforGod,butifyou'reunwillingtoallowGodtoestablishtheparametersfortherelationship,thenyoucouldfeelthatalliswellbecauseofyourzeal,andthatzealwouldblindyoutoyourunbelief. Let'ssayyourchilddefendsthefamilyname,andinthedefenseofthefamilyname,kindatakesthingsintohisownhands. Youmightjustifyhimdoingitbecauseit'sforagoodcause,andassumesthatyouwillbepleased,eventhoughhetookthingsintohisownhands,byvirtueofthefactthatthecausewasright. And,gentlemen,thatisatrap,Isuggestthatamancaneasilyfallinto.
LEE-Theendjustifiesthemeans.
WALT-Itisaformofthat,yes. SoMosesisfilledwithrighteousindignationandhitstherock,whenGodsaidspeaktoit,andthinkshewillgetawaywithit,butfindsoutthathepaiddearlyforit. UziahgrabstheArksothatitwillnotfalltotheground. Itwasanoblecause,andGodkilledhim. Itisthattendencythatyouhavetobereallycarefulof. Andwethinktoourselves,butit'sforagoodcause. Theheartisintherightplace,andwho'stosayUziah'sheartwasnotintherightplace? It'sjustthatherefusedtoobey. Hethoughtthatbecausehisheartwasintherightplace,hecoulddefinetheparametersoftherelationship.
LEE-Isthatwillful?
WALT-It'swillfulinthesensethatyou'rebeingwillfulwithGod,butunderthepretenseofbeingzealousforGod. Mosessaid,"Godyou'vegottograntthatIhavearighttobeangrywiththem,becausetheywerebeingdisrespectfultowardyou,nottowardme. Theirattitudetowardyouwasbad. SoIwasfilledwithrighteousindignation,andIdemonstratedit. Now,grantedIdemonstrateditcontrarytoyourexpressword." Godsaid,"Forthatyoudonotgointothepromisedland"...... WecannotdothatwithGod. ZEALCANNOTCOMPENSATEFORDISOBEDIENCE. Isuggesttoyou,gentlemen,thatyourloveforChristcanleadyoutotakelibertieswithhimthatyouhavenobusinesstaking.
BART-Negligencewouldbethesame?
WALT-Noticethecontrastinverses2-5. Verse2,"I." Verse3,"they." Verse4,"Christ."Verse5,"Moses." IandChrist,theyandMoses. SoPaulsaysinverse3,"TheydidnotsubmitthemselvestotherighteousnessofGod." TherighteousnessofGodisby
HKRomans,Ch10,page3 77
faith. Faithrequiressubmissionratherthanworks, SubmissionisonGod'sterms. Worksareonyourterms.
BART-Submissionrequiresknowledgedoesn'tit?
WALT-Yes. TherighteousnessofGodrequiresfaith.
RICHARD-Andfaithrequiressubmissionratherthanworks.
WALT-AndBart,itwasn'tthattheydidnotknow,it'sjustthattheyfeltthatzealwasanexcusetomodifyit. LetmesuggestthatthefatalerrorcommitedbytheJewswasthesameerrorcommitedbyallmeninallages,evenbythoseofuswhoprofesstoacceptGod'sgrace. ThepeopletowhomJesusministeredunderstoodthegraceofGod. That'swhythe( ?? )said,"WehaveAbrahamforourfatherandItellyouGodisablewiththesefivestonestoraiseupchildrenofAbraham." Don'tgivemetheargumentthatyou'reprotectedbythegraceofGodintheunconditionalcovenantgiventoAbraham.
VERSES5-10-THEGOSPELISACCESSABLETOJEWSANDGENTILESALIKE
WALT-Inverses5-10,hesaysthatChrist'smessageisacceptabletoall. NowfromwhereisPaulquotinginverse5? Lev18:5,yes,andwhatisthecontext? ThecontextistheLord'sdesirethatIsraelnotemulateEgypt,fromwhereshecame. NorisIsraeltoemulateCaanan,whereshe'sgoing. Rather,sheistokeepthelawofGod. SoPaulquotesthatpassagehereandinGalatians3:12,tosaywhatwasnotimmediatelyapparenttothosetowhomMosesspake,namelythatifyougotherouteofthelaw,you'reobligatedtokeepthewholelaw. SoJamessayswhoeverkeepsthewholelaw,butoffendsinonepoint,isguiltyofall.(Jas2:10)Nowinverses6-7,hequotesoutofDeuteronomy(30:12-13). Whatisthepointheismaking?...... Gentlemen,whatishesayinghere?
LEE-ThereisnomorelocalizedpresenceofGodonearth. Youdon'thavetogoanywhere. He'severywherenow. Christhasrisenfromthedead.
WALT-Allright.
LEE-Thelocalizedpresencewasthetabernacleandthecloud.
WALT-ThepointthatMosesmakesinDeuteronomyisthatWHENITCOMESTOTHEWILLOFGOD,THEREISNOTHINGOFTHEDIFFICULTINVOLVED. Youdon'thavetosendanambassadortoheaven. Youdon'thavetogodowntothedepthsorbowelsoftheearth. Youdon'thavetosendsomebodyoverseas. It'srighthere. Thewordisnearyou,inyourmouth. There'snothingofthedifficult. Paulquotesitheretomakethesamepoint. Godreveals,manmustbelieve. Everyrelationshiprequiresreciprocity. BeliefisthekeytotherelationshipwithGod. AndPaulsaysthereisnothingofthedifficultinvolved. Godisnotaskingyoutodosomethingthatishard. SothewholeideaistodiscouragethenotionthatGod'swillrequiressomethingthatisdifficultoroutofreach. Allyouhavetodoisbelieve. Sonoticetheconditionofverse9. Andwhatisthecondition,gentlemen?
CONFESSIONANDBELIEF
LEE-Seemsliketwo,confessandbelieve.
WALT-Allright.
LEE-Theconfessionatthesamelevelasbelief,givemeabreak.
WALT-Allright.
LEE-SoundstooBaptist.
WALT-Notonlythat,buttheconfessioncomesbeforethebeliefintheverse. Whydoyouthinkthatis? Hesays,"Ifyouwillconfesswithyourmouth,andbelieveinthineheart." You'vegottwoconditions,confessandbelieve. Andifthat'snotbadenough,confessioncomesbeforebelieving. Whydoeshesayitthatway?
LEE-Youneedtoshowwhereyouarepublically,whosesideyouareon.
ANTHONY-Soitisaprideissue,inthatwearetoconfesswhenwebelieve?
WALT-Yeah,Ithinkso. ButIthinktheconfessioncomesbeforebeliefinverse9,becausethat'stheorderinwhichitisgiveninDeuteronomy30. Butinverse10hereversesandputsitinitsproperorder. Sowiththeheartmanbelieves,andwiththemouthconfessionismade. BUTTHETWOHAVETOGOTOGETHER. THECONFESSIONATTESTSTOTHEBELIEVING,PARTICULARLYWHENDONEINAHOSTILEENVIRONMENT.
LEE-Somechurchesreallypushbelieversupfront,requiringthemtogivetestimony. Theyusethisverseasabasistopushpeopletopublicallyattest. Isthisalegitimateversetoteachusthat?
WALT-Well,Iwasgoingtoaskyouthatquestion,Lee. Wouldyousayit'sagoodideaorabadidea,andwhy?
LEE-Ithinkit'sagoodideainthatapersonwhoissoafraidtosaysomething,thatwhenhegetspushed...... I'veheardalotofmensay,"Ihatedtobepushedlikethat,butafterwardsIwasgladtogetthatoverwith...... therightofpassage. Ithinkit'sabadideainthesensethatyoupushpeopletomakeapublicprofession...... youcouldbedoingitbeforetheyarereadyforit,itcanbemanufactured. Yousayyea! You'reaChristiannow...... soIdon'tknow. There'sthispersonthatpreachesatourchurchallthetime,andheusesthispassage,andIthinkhesharedacoupleoftimesintheUSA...... Giveyousomemoney,givemesomemoney,andthepersonhegavemoneyhidit,andthereasonhehiditwasthathewasafraidofthesecondcoming,thoughtitwasgoing
HKRomans,Ch10,page4 78
tohappensoon...... wasafraid( ?? )wasgoingtokillhim. ButIthinkcomingfromaBaptistbackground,Iknowapartofthatwas,youcan'tbeashamedofyourfaith...... youcan'tbeashamedofJesus,you'vegottostandup.
THOMAS-Butasaconditionofsalvation,that'stough.
WALT-Well,definitelyaconditioninverses9and10.
LEE-Andconfessmeanspublicallyopenyourmouth?
WALT-Well,Jesusonmorethanoneoccasionsaid,"Ifyoudonotconfessmebeforemen,IwillnotconfessyouwhenwemeetbeforetheheavenlyFather."(Mt10:32-33)
STUDENT-Howpublicispublic?
WALT-Idon'tknow. ButIshouldbewillingtomakeitaspublicasProvidencedemands. RememberwetalkedinRomans1:16,Paulsays,"Iamnotashamedofthegospel,foritisthepowerofGoduntosalvationtoeveryonethatbelieves." AndnotbeingashamedofthegospelisacentralideaintheNewTestament. PaulsaystoTimothy,in2Timothy,"Iwasnotashamed,Onesiphoruswasnotashamed,andTimothydon'tyoubeashamed." Sofromyourownperspectiveonthat,Tom,towhatdegreewouldyousaythatthereisaconnectionbetweentheirreluctance,andbeingashamed? Ordoyouthinktheyaretwoentirelydifferentissues?
THOMAS-Ithinkinsomecases,it'snotbeingashamed,it'sjustexperience,notthattheydon'twantotherstoknow. Butyoudon'thavetostandupineveryCommunistPartymeeting,andtelleverybodyyouareaChristian.
WALT-WhatwouldbetheirresponseinaPartymeeting,ifsomebodysaidIaccuseyouofbeingafollowerofChrist?
THOMAS-Hewouldnotdenyit. Hewouldadmitit.
WALT-MayIsuggestthat'sprobablythedifference...... thatyoudon'thavetobeprecipitous. Ontheotherhandifsomeonecalledyouonit,Ithinkyourhandisforced. Idon'tthinkconfessingheremeansgoingoutlookingforopportunitestogetkilled. Ontheotherhand,iftheoccasionarises,youcertainlyhaveanobligationatthatpoint. Verses11-17areprobablythemostfamiliarportionofthebookofRomans.
BELIEFINTHERESURRECTION-LINEARV.CYCLICALWORLDVIEW
JOSEPH-Walt,couldIaskaquestion? Inverse9,"believeinthineheartthatGodraisedhimfromthedead,you'llbesaved." IsthatthesameasbelievingthatJesusdiedformysins?
WALT-Pang,howwouldyouanswerthat? Pangisourresidentscholar.
PANG-No,I'mlearning. Ithinkitincludesthat,butbeliefthatGodhasraisedhimfromthedeadismorecomparabletoAbraham'sfaithofbelievingasoncancomefromadeadwomb,andit'safaiththatisahopeagainsthope. Idon'tthinkthatexcludesJesusdiedonthecrossformysins.
JOSEPH-Whenweaskayoungbeliever,oranunbeliever,doyoubelieveinJesus,wedon'tsaydoyoubelieveGodraisedJesusfromthedead.
WALT-Lee,youweregoingtocommentonthat.
LEE-Thedifferencebetweenraisingfromthedead,anddyingforyoursins,isthedifferencebetweenEastermorningandgoodFriday. NowofcoursewehavetobelievethatJesusdiedforoursins. Anyfoolcoulddothat. Whenyou'resayingGodraisedJesusfromthedead,you'resayingGodhasacceptedthesacrificeofamannamedJesusChristasaperfectsacrificeformysins. Withouttheresurrection,nomatterwhodied,youdon'tnecessarilyknowthatthatisefficatious,orsufficientforsin. BelievingGodraisedhimfromthedeadassumesbelievinghediedforyoursins......
WALT-IthinkthattheresurrectionismoreofanissueintheOrientthanitwouldbeintheU.S.,simplybecausemostpeopleintheU.S.viewhistoryasbeinglinear,andmostintheOrientviewhistoryasbeingcyclical. Andsoinacyclicalworldview,theresurrectionbecomesparamountbecauseitcutsrightacrosstheassumptionofthecyclicalphilosophy,namelythathistoryisirrelevant,thatthebodyisbad,andthatfreedomfromthebodyisthedesireofthesoul. Ofcourse,GreekphilosophywasHinduinitsworldview. Mostofthephilosophers,Socrates,Plato,etc.believedinthetransmigrationofthesoul. Toviewtheworldascyclicalisreasonable. Toviewtheworldhistoryaslinearrequiresrevelation. Andthat'swhatmadetheresurrectionsocentraltothemessage.
JOSEPH-Whenyousaycyclical,whatdoyoumean?
WALT-Well,inEcclesiastes,Solomontalksaboutthefactthateverythingrepeats. Thesuncomesupintheeast,setsinthewest,andrepeats. Theseasonsrepeatthemselves. Waterevaporatesoutoftheocean,fallsinthemountains,gathersinthestreams,dumpsintheocean,gathersintheclouds,etc. Soeverythinginlifeappearstobecyclical,goesaroundandaround. Soreasondictatesthatamanisborn,helives,hedies,he'sreborn,helives,hedies,andsothephilosophythatflowsfromthatworldviewsaysthatwhenyougetitright,youbecomeonewiththerestofthecreatedorder,andyoudon'thavetodoitanymore. Butthetruthofthematterishistoryisirrelevant,notimportant,andcertainlythebodyisnotgood. Itisbad. Ithousesallthatweconsidertobedetrimentaltowhatitiswewanttodo. Sotheresurrectionjustcutsrightdowntheheartofthat. SoIthinkthatwhenthelinearviewofhistoryisunderstood,thenthetendencyistodrivehomewhetherornotamanunderstandshisneed,andiswillingtotrustChristforthemeetingofthatneedoftheforgivenessofsin. SoI'mnotsureoneisbetterthantheother,althoughIcertainlywouldagreewithLeethattheresurrectionismoreall-encompassingthanChristdyingforoursins. ButIcanonlyguessastowhyPaulcallsattentiontothe
HKRomans,Ch10,page5 79
resurrectionasopposedtothesubstitutionarydeathofChrist. IfIweretoguess,Iwouldimagineithastodowiththeuniquenessofthatworldview.
VERSES11-17-THEGOSPELSHOULDBEPREACHEDTOALL
WALT-OK,let'stalkaboutthenextparagraph,verses11-17. Anyquestionsorobservations? WeweretalkingaboutthesovereigntyofGodandtheresponsibilityofmanthismorning,andverse13istheresponsibilityofman,"WhoevercallsonthenameoftheLordshallbesaved."(Joel2:32) Nowgentlemen,thatisaquotefromtheOldTestament. Weweretalkingearlierwhetherthequotewasincontextoroutofcontext. Howaboutthisone? Whereisitfound? Andwhatistheargumentoftheauthor,vis-a-vistheargumentoftheApostlehere?
BART-ThebookofJoel.
WALT-Allright. AndaboutwhatisJoeltalking. IsJoeltalkingaboutsalvationfromsin?
PANG-He'stalkingaboutsalvationattheendtime,atthedayoftheLord,aboutthesurvivorsoftheremnantinIsraelincontext. AndJoelisreferringtotheremnantthatcallsontheLordatthedayoftheLord,andtheywillbesaved.
WALT-Allright,savedfromwhat?
PANG-Deliveredfromthenations.
WALT-Yes. SalvationanddeliveranceintheOldTestamentisalmostalwaystemporal. Almostalwaysithasreferencetothenations. Aswetalkedtheotherday,thePassoverwascelebratingthedeliveranceofGodfromEgypt. WhenJesusintroducesitbeforehisbetrayalanddeath,hetakesitoutofthecontextoftemporaldeliverance,andputsitasdeliverancefromsininarelationshipwithGod. ThePassoverwasneveroriginallyintendedtobethoughtofintermsofGodpassingoversin. SohereinRomanschapter10,Paulsays,"WhoevershallcalluponthenameoftheLordshallbesaved." Andthecontexthereissavedfromoursin. ThecontextinJoel,aswe'vealreadynoted,isdifferent. Anycommentonthat? Andsoinverses14-15,wehavefourqualificationsforbelieving. Youcan'treceiveChristwithoutbelieving,youcan'tbelievewithoutamessage,youcan'thaveamessagewithoutamessenger,andyoucan'thaveamessengeruntilGodsendsone.
BART-Walt,ifyouwereazealousJew,wouldthatnotdriveyoucrazyifhewastakingthosequotesoutoftheOldTestamentandapplyingtheminanewmanner? Imean,wouldthatnotjustaddtoyourdislikeoftheguy?
WALT-Probably...... Probably.
THOMAS-Seeitthisway. DeliveranceisfromthewrathofGod. Thenationsare( ?? ).
WALT-Yes.
THOMAS-AndnowthedeliverancefromthewrathofGodbecauseofoursin.
WALT-Yes.
PANG-TheonlydifferenceisthatintheOldTestamentthenationistheinstrument. IntheNewTestamentyouaredirectlyconfrontingGod.
WALT-Yes,andIthinkthat'sanimportantdistinction. AreweinagreementthatIsraelwasledtobelievethatiftheybehavedthemselves,theywouldneverbethreatenedbyanaliennation? Andfurthermore,areweinagreementthatthecommitmentofGodtothenationofIsraelwasinviolable. SoeveninthedayoftheLorditwasinpreparationforthefullfilmentofGod'spromisethatitwouldn'thappenagain(theJeremiah31:31-34passage). SoIwouldthinkthateveninthedayoftheLord,thesamewouldholdtrue. Arewereadytogoon?
VICTOR-WhydoesPaulbringupthesefourqualifications?
WALT-I'mnotsureIunderstandyourquestion.
VICTOR-Idon'tunderstandwhyheputthesefourqualificationsinhere. Whatishetryingtogetat?
WALT-HowwouldtherestofyouanswerVictor?...... Gentlemen,Godcangetthewordoutanywayhewants.
VICTOR-Hewantedthismessagetobeunderstood,soI'mtryingtounderstandwhat'sthelinkbetweenverses13-17.
WALT-BecauseIthinkthathe'ssayingherethatGodhasordainedthatthewordgetsoutbythepreacher. Thenormalnaturalflowofhowamancomestofaithisintheproclamationoftheword.
VICTOR-Butit'sinterestingenoughthatverse16indicatesthehardnessofheart.
WALT-Yes,ofcoursehe'squotingtherefromIsaiah. Ithinkwhathe'ssayingisthattheuniversalavailabilitydoesnotresultinuniversalism. Thatwhenthegospelismadeavailabletoall,thatdoesnotmeanthatallwillbelieve. "Lord,whodoesbelieveyourreport?"(Isa53:1) Now,whenIsaiahissayingthat,hesayswhenthewordgetsout,peoplestilldon'tbelieve. Neverthelessforthosewhodobelieve,theybelievebecauseoftheproclamationoftheword. Now,wehaveestablishedbefore,aswithAbraham,ifGodwantstogetaman,he'lljustgogethim,butthenaturalnormalwayinwhichGodbringsmentofaithisthroughtheproclamationoftheword. Butunderstandthattheproclamationoftheworddoesn'tbringallmentofaith.
STUDENT-WoulditbeanydifferentifGoddidithimself? LikeSaulontheroadtoDamascuswasconfrontedbyGodhimself? WoulditbeanydifferentifsomeothermessengerhadgonetoSaulandtalkedtohim?
HKRomans,Ch10,page6 80
WALT-RememberinLukewhereJesustellsthestoryaboutLazarusandtherichman?(Lk16:19-31) Jesussaidtheywon'tbelieveevenifamanisraisedfromthedead. SoIthinkthattheraisingofLazarusinJohn11adifferentLazarus,buttheraisingofLazarusisagreatillustrationbecauseanumberofpeoplewhowatcheditwantedtokillhim. Youthinktoyourselfhowintheworldcouldpeoplewatchamiracleofthatmagnitudeandreactthewaytheydid. Idon'tknow. It'sspeculationonmypart,butitseemstomethatwhatGoddidtoPaulontheroadtoDamascuswasverysimilartowhatGoddidtoJonah.
BART-DoyouhaveanyspeculationastowhytheywouldwanttokillJesusafter...... ?
WALT-Ithinkthatwasthereasonwhythedoctrineofelectionbecomescentral. Ilookbackonmyownconversion. AlthoughIbelieved,Iconfessed,GodputmeinapositionwhereIreallyhadnochoice. Idon'tknowabouttherestofyouinyoursojournwithChrist,butIwanttotellyouthatIdidn'tthinkabout: Let'sseewhataretheoptions? Isthisreallythebestthingtobedoing? WhenGodgrabbedme,therewasnodebate. Thatwasit.
LEE-Isthatwhyyouhavesuchalousytitleforyourdiary?
WALT-Whydoyouthinkthat'salousytitle?...... (alllaugh)
LEE-Anyway,that'swhatyoumeanbydesperate?
WALT-Yes. Andthat'swhatthetheologianmeansbyirresistiblegrace. Ilookbackandsay,Ibelieved. Thetruthofthematteristherewerenooptions. Itwasnotaphilosophicaldecision. Itwasnotevenanintellectualdecision. Godbreaksaman,thensays,wouldyoulikesomehelp? Andyoulieonthegroundbrokenandsay,youknowIdothinkIneedtheGreatPhysician.
VERSES18-21-CALLINGOFTHEGENTILESPREDICTEDINTHEOLDTESTAMENT
WALT-Verses18-21. Nowinverse18,thisiswherewewereinteractingbeforelunch. "Havetheynotheard?" First,isyourtranslationthesameasmine?
LEE-"Surelytheyhaveneverheard,havethey?"
WALT-Allright,whoisthe"they?"
SOMEONE-Israel.
WALT-Wouldyouallagree?
LEE-Oritcouldbethoseinverse13.
WALT-Thatmyfriendisthequestion,isn'tit?
LEE-Verse19issupportforthe"they"beingIsrael.
WALT-Isit,orisitsupportforthefactIsraelknewthatGod'smessagewasgoingtogotoalltheearth? "Thewordstotheendoftheworld"(vs18). Whatthinkye?
LEE-Iwithdrawmyargument.
STUDENT-Whatdoesendsoftheearthmean?
WALT-ItcouldmeanrightwhereIsraelis,thedispersion,particularlyofthetentribes. Idon'tknow. Ireallydonotknow.
JOSEPH-That'stakenfromPsalm19.
WALT-Psalm19:4. WithPaultamperingwiththecontextthroughoutthispassage,thecontextofPsalm19doesn'thelpusallthatmuch. SoIaskedmyselfinverse19,whatwasIsraelsupposedtohaveknown? ThatGodwouldgetthemessagetoallIsrael? Or,weretheytoknowthatGodwouldcalltheGentilesandrejectIsrael? Thelatterissubstantiatedbyverses20andfollowing. Anycomment?...... OK,thenIwouldsuggestthatyoucan'tbedogmatic. Itseemstomethathe'stalkingabouttheGentiles,i.e.that"they"referstotheGentiles. ButIsraelshouldhaveknown. Andtheresult,verses19and20,"AfoolishnationIwillusetoprovokeyou."...... Anyothercommentsonchapter10?
MAN'SDREAMOFUTOPIA,ANDHISTHIRSTFORAUTONOMYCOMPARED
STUDENT-WhydidGodchooseIsrael?
WALT-Asamatteroffact,heseemstodispelthenotionthatthereisareason. Letmedrawalittlediagramforyoutokeepyouawake. PaulissayingthatintheeconomyofGod,intheOldTestamentitwasprimarilyanIsraeldispensation,andthatasyoumoveintotheNewTestamentitbecomesprimarilyaGentiledispensation. ThatdoesnotmeanthatintheJewishdispensationnoGentilesaresaved. Butthisiswheretheactionis. IfyouwanttofindthefootprintsofGod,thisiswhereyoulookforit. ThereareGentiles,notableGentiles,Ruth,etc. Here,theprimaryactionoftheHolySpiritistheGentile. Thatdoesn'tmeanthattherearenoJewssaved. Butthisiswhereyou'llfindtheemphasis. Andtheninthelastdays,wegobackuptoIsraelagain. InthemillenniumGodfullfilshiscovenantpromisestothenation. SothenIaskedmyselfifwecarrythisonovertothemillennium. IfthelandisforeverandthelandwillbetheJews'inthenewheavenandnewearth,thenwhatisthepurposeofthemillennium? Icannotbedogmaticonthis,butletmeofferforyourconsideration,allofhistoryisforthepurposeofdemonstratingboththestupidityandfutilityofrebellingagainstGod. Manhasalwaysdreamedofthedayhecancreateautopia. Andthephilosophyofmansaysthattheenvironmentshouldbeabletobecreatedinwhichmenwouldliveatpeace. Andofcourse,communismwassimplythemostrecentutopianexpression. Plato'sRepublic
HKRomans,Ch10,page7 81
wasestablishedforthepurposeofoutliningtheutopia. AndmenhavebeenenamouredwithPlato'sRepublicfromthebeginningoftime,becauseit'stheblueprintforcreatingutopia. SoGodsaid,I'llgiveutopiatothepeople. Whatwe'lldoisestablishaperfectworldorderinwhichrighteousnessshallreign. TheDevilwillbeboundforthat1000years. Thecommongoodwillbedividedamongthecommonmen. Wehaveathousandyearstowashfromourmemoryallthatbadstuff,sothattheeducationprocessispure. AndI'llgiveittoyou-1000years. Andgivenachance,maninstinctivelyrebells,andthenGodclosesthecurtainonhistory. Soitdoesn'tmatterwhatGoddoesforyou,youwillrebell. Neartheendofthethousandyears,Satanisloosed,andwegorightbacktoitlikeadogtoitsvomit. Goddrawsthecurtainonit,andcreatesthenewheavenandnewearth.
LEE-Jesuswillbereigningatthattime?
WALT-Yes.
LEE-MenwillrebellevenwhenJesusisreigning?
WALT-Yes. Createtheidealsociety,ImeanasocietythatsurpassesanythingthatPlatocoulddreamof. AsIwassayingtheotherday,manwillneverbehappywithanythingshortofbeingGod. SoRomans9,10and11addresstheissueofthefutureofIsrael. AndthefutureofIsraelissecurebyelection,andrejectedbecauseofunbelief-chapter10,butnotfinal. AndGodhasafutureforthem-chapter11.