NANDTB Meeting Minutes
Qantas Meeting Rooms Melbourne Domestic Terminal
Wednesday 28th March,2012
- Opening: RQ opened the meeting at 1000.
- Present: Jason Maitland (JMa), Ron Quirk (RQ), Colin Hockings (CH), Gary Martin (GM), Gavin Smith (GS),Garrett Booth (GB), Tony Collier (TC), Shane Wilson (SW), John Michael (JMi), Neil Joiner (NJ).
Observers: Richard Allen (RA), Geoff Lowden (GL),
Apologies: Peter Virtue (PV), Garry Bowden (GJB), Malcolm Oakey (MO),
Guest: Bob Park -CASA
2(a)RQ welcomed new members Shayne Wilson and John Michael.
Shane and John introduced themselves to members.
3. Adoption of the agenda–GS/GB
4. Disclosures of interest – Nil
5. Acceptance of previous minutesof November and Action Items - JM/GB
Nov 7. Correspondence –Responses to be made to Boeing’s offer of Board membership and the request for recognition of qualifications from Mr. Min Woo Kim.
OK
Nov 10CH to revisit question for NJ re AINDT AffiliationOK
Nov 10.1 Review of the Strategic Plan- A review of the Board’s Strategic Plan was discussed. NJ wanted more time to consider the document and it was agreed that member’s comments should be sent to CH (copy to all members) by COB 18/11/2011, and the document would be finalised. All
10.2.CASA web site should have a link to the Board’s site. CH to write to RA suggesting same OK
Datasearch web management training is to be undertaken by SF, GB and CH. CH awaiting common availability of SF and GB. Open
10.5. RA to prepare some guidance material to explain the transitional situation regarding NDT certification responsibilities in the mix of old and new regulations. OK
CH Noted the errors in CAAP 30-4 (1) Appendix 8 and is to send RA a summary for correction. OK
Clarification required from CASA of Level 2 as the minimum qualification for NDT shown the CASA Licensing manual OK
CH noted the CASA deed required a procedure for dealing with CASA’s enquiries. CH to prepare a procedure OK (NA-9)
10.7.Recognition of Level 3 –RQ to prepare draft amendment for circulation to members. OK
MOU with AINDT – (a) Review the MOU and provide comment to RQ (copy all members) before COB 18/11/2011 AcceptedGM/GS
(b) Consider comments and draft amendments
(d) Revisit board minutes to locate previous discussions on AINDT affiliation in regard to insurance coverage UTL
CH to review NA 013 for suitability and circulate any proposed amendments. OK NTR
CH is to request clarification from the AINDT CB re L3 general examinations OK
NJ is to contact Standards Australia to clarify what is the necessary process to have AS3669 reviewed and reissued. OK
NJ Reported his telecom with SA. NJ to write to SA requesting that AS 3669 be added to their list of standards for MT-7 to review and amend. NJ to circulate the letter to other members, and CASA who will use it to solicit support from their own organisations and others.
12.1 CH is to contact AINDT to correct website re aerospace certification. OK
12.2Thermal imaging approval- CH to respond to the AWI and RA will contact him directly to clarify CASA’s position OK
Actions from January Telecom
6.1CH to pay deposit, investigate alternate dinner venues, summarise exhibitor information OK
All members to suggest two potential seminar speakers Open
6.2 New and existing members to be advised of renewed membershipOK
7.1 CH to update procedures as agreed.OK
7.3 CH to contact AINDT re notifications of recent member deaths.OK
6. Business Arising not included in the main agenda-
AS 3669
7. Correspondence– CH tabled a summary of correspondenceRQ/JM
CH tabled a correspondence summary
8. President’s Report –
RQ reported on the work of the Board during the previous year. Predominately the preparations for the seminar and using the event to raise the profile of the Board. Level 3 Recognitions for the period were 4 bring the total to 18 including 5 outside Australia. The latest application for L3 recognition was from Singapore last week. Board members requested that all members receive notification of L 3 recognitions when found to be acceptable. CH to modify the procedure to reflect this and other changes noted later in these minutes. Action CH
9. Financial Report –
CH tabled a revised budget and reconciliation with bank statements.
SF/JM
CH tabled the projected finances for the next periodfor approval
SF/JM
CH to prepare a Financial report to CASA after this meeting’s expenses and other approved payments have been made, arrange receipt of the next CASA funding, and repayment of the surplus from the earlier period as per the Deed of Agreement. Action CH
10. Reports from AINDT FC/CB
SF reported the CB questioned the use of the term General when describing the Aerospace exam. In future this will be known as aerospace and will include an inspection scenario question. NJ asked what was the source of these exams, and SF noted that they came from the Canadian NDT Society database and local aerospace industry. These are reviewed and updated each year. NJ asked by who and SF stated suitable aerospace persons. Despite the move to ATOs running the exams, the CB will retain the control of the examination base.
11.General Business
11.1 Review of the Business Plan and Strategic Plan
GS noted that AS 3669 was omitted from some sections and is to be included where appropriate such as in the vision statement.
SF noted that the Board should have a performance assessment. CH noted that recent revisions to the procedures included such a measure, and also the audit requirement of the Deed agreement and Chairman’s Reports constituted a form of performance assessment.
CH to amend the Business and Strategic plan accordingly.Action CH
11.2.Web site –Comments/Improvements/Management
It was agreed that a Level 3 Aerospace syllabus, Human Factors aerospace case studies, full list of recognised Level 3s.and other items in these minutes be included on the web site. ActionCH
CH, SF and GB to undertake the Datasearch web management training.
ActionCH/SF/GB
11.3.Acceptance of CASA Funding Deed
RA noted the CASA processesfor reviewing and renewing the Deed are more efficient now, and he noted the need for the return of surplus funds prior to the issue of the next funding grant. Action CH
The Deed document was signed and exchanged.
11.4.Renewal of CASA NDT Airworthiness Authorities
SF introduced the subject of obvious variances the processes and requirements from different CASA AWIs around the country when dealing with the issue and reissue of NDT Airworthiness Authorities. He suggested the Board offer guidance to CASA to update their licensing manual section 9.6 NDT Authorities, to align with industry qualification standards and best practice, which should minimise AWI variances in interpretation and process.
RA agreed to accept the Board’s guidance on this and also seel input from the Board on the LAME penetrant examinations, and present it to the licensing group for its consideration. Amendment to the licensing manual needed.
RA to provide Word © document to TC, SF and SW for their amendment and circulation to members for review. Action RA
SF also noted when visual acquity tests did not align with AA reissue date, this also could cause problems and would be included in the advice offered.
SW noted his experience finding some individual’s AAs had been granted based on training which does not meet the training minima shown in the qualification standard referenced in the CASA licensing Manual.
TC added comments that further complexities are being generated with the introduction of Part 145.
TC, GS, SF to draft amendments to the CASA licensing manual for circulation to members, by 30/5/12. Action TC GS, SF
JN asked for a CASA view on maintenance documents (such as a recent Lycoming SB) which state that the NDT is to be done by Level 2. RA noted that the standard of personnel (who) stated in SBs is not recognised, only the instructions (what and how). More clarification from CASA to the industry is needed. The exception is for ADs where all instructions are to be followed, but even then these may still be reviewed by CASA. He also noted that owners and maintainers should be aware that there may be some problems if an aircraft is maintained under CASA authorisations and exported to a jurisdiction which does not recognise such authorisations.
11.5. Progress with November Seminar
The following aspects of the seminar were raised and determined.
Seminar Budget - Agreed
Content of the Registration document - Agreed
Dinner venue (Greek restaurant) - Agreed
Advance payment to the hotel and dinner venue - Agreed
Contributions to the draft Speakers list – Action All
Suggestions to enhance the Seminar.
Members are to be observant to opportunities for sponsorship and support. Action All
Additional promotional opportunities
CASA Safety Digest
AINDT Web site and Journal
AAOP
AMROBA
Gliding ClubsAction CH
CH to purchase two “roll up” NANDTB Posters for use at this seminar and other events. Action CH
11.6. CASA Report – including status of CAO 108.8 and 108.10,
and revised CAAP 30-4 (1)
RA reported that Amendment to CAO 108 is still within the CASA processes, and the CAAP 30-4 amendments have been introducedas a consultation draft, available on the CASA web site.
11.7.Revision of Board Procedures – Comments and input
a) Recognition of Level 3 and Certificate to include an expiry date of 5 years from the date of issue to align with the expiry date shown on the web site Level 3 recognition listing. And include a statement that the certificate validity can be checked on the NANDTB web site. Web site to show all Level 3 recognitions and the Procedure changed to remove this as an option.
b) Board elections procedure to be amended to permit the automatic appointment of nominees as members, when the number of nominations are less than or equal to the number of Board vacancies.
c) MOU with AINDT- As determined from discussions in Agenda Item 5 (November 10.7), submit the amended MOU to the AINDT for their consideration.
d) Membership/Representations current procedure to be amended to remove limitations on sector proportional representation.
All items GS/NJ
Action CH
11.8. Human Factors training requirements under Part 145
TC introduced the HF discussions. CASA Part 145 audit requires the AMO to follow the MOS, and its HF training is to be tailored to the organisation’s activities and needs. GM moved that TC prepare some support material for inclusion on the web site identifying case studies and other information useful for HF training for NDT operations. Members finding similar material to forward this to TC. GM/TC
Action TC & All
RA to seek comment from CASA SSI on the strictness of interpretation of the Part 145 MOS. RA also suggested that any disagreement at audit could be referred to Certification Management Team for resolution. Action RA
SW noted that a recent CASA 145 course, CASA stated that it will publish some HF syllabus options to assist AMOs.
11.9. RAAF Report
GL to send summary ofRAAF activities since the last meeting. Action GL
11.10.Opportunities / Initiatives for the Board
a) The Board to enter into discussions with CASA to determine the nature and content of NDT awareness training it could provide to AWIs and other CASA staff as nominated. Action GB
b) Assess the success (or otherwise) of the November seminar and if positive, undertake to organise and run subsequent seminars in response to identified industry priorities.
c) Participate in the current round of Ageing Aircraft Airworthiness initiatives by CASA and industry.
TC reported on his attendance at the Perth Ageing Aircraft seminar recently. Relatively low attendance and TC was identified as a visiting NDT SME. Some factual NDT errors identified at an earlier presentation were repeated at this event. There was no allowance for questions and discussions. Timing was poor (Midday Saturday) and the promotional effort was limited and not well directed. Members to offer comments on the Bob Holdsworth presentation to CH for consolidation and forward to RA.
Action CH & All
d) Develop some qualification and competency guidelines for CASA to consider when processing requests for NDT AAs for new inspection methods like thermography, shearography etc.
12. Election of Chairman, Deputy Chairman, and Secretary/Treasurer.
RA acted as a returning officer for the election.
Nominations for Chairman: GB and TCGB elected
Nominations for Deputy Chairman: TCTC elected
Nominations for Secretary/Treasurer CHCH elected
It was noted that a succession plan for the Secretary/Treasurer is required and a nominee is to be identified by March 2013 to commence a smooth transition.
Action All
13. Other Business –
13.1AS3669- GL noted that he has reported to his management that AS3669 is nearly dead and other NDT qualification standards need to be considered, and that NDT national competencies are still to be published. He suggested enterprise competencies could be used as an alternative. He asked if the Board still finds AS3669 acceptable.
SF noted that in this regard Defence was directed to align with industry, and that the changes to the Standards Australia standards management model will now allow the retention /revision of AS3669. The relatively long timeline to amend the standard makes the RAAF position of using AS3669 difficult. GL noted that there are no Defence regulations which require the use of 3669. He suggested RAAF will use enterprise competencies yet still comply with the other NAS/EN standards.
SF gave as short overview of the national competencies. The advent of the Skills Council had taken control of competencies and appear to be managing these without suitable industry input.
GL asked if the Board will support amendments to AS3669. The Board agreed and noted that some board members are on the MT7 committee and will be included in the process when it happens. Revision of the standard should include amendment to the appendix to change to enterprise competency rather than national competency.
13.2 NJ offered IT advice to use the bcc feature when sending emails to avoid viruses.
13.3 GS noted the extensive contributions of RQ as Chairman during the past two terms. All members heartedly agreed, and expressed their gratitude for all his efforts.
14. Agreed Actions –
14.1 Modify the procedure to reflect agreed changes to Level 3 recognition and certificate. Action CH
14.2 Prepare a Financial report to CASA after this meeting’s expenses and other approved payments have been made, arrange receipt of the next CASA funding, and repayment of the surplus from the earlier period as per the Deed of Agreement. Action CH
14.3 Amend the Business and Strategic plan.Action CH
14.4 Level 3 Aerospace syllabus, Human Factors aerospace case studies and full list of recognised Level 3s to be included on the web site. ActionCH
14.5 Undertake the web management training.ActionCH/SF/GB
14.6 Seek comment from the Board on NDT questions used in LAME examinations and providea Word ©file of the CASA Licensing Manual section 9.6 to TC, SF and SW for their use. Action RA
14.7 Draft amendments to the CASA licensing manual for circulation to members, by 30/5/12. Action TC GS, SF
14.8 Offer CASA suggestions for improved questions related to penetrant inspection when examining LAMEs Action TC
14.9 Offer to CH suggestions for seminar speakers Action All
14.10 Direct any seminar sponsorship opportunities to CH.Action All
14.11 Follow up seminar promotional optionsAction CH
14.12 Purchase two roll-up NANDTB postersAction CH
14.13 Amend the Board procedures as agreedAction CH
14.15 Forward the proposed AINDT MOU to the AINDT for review and discussion. Action CH
14.16 Prepare some support material for inclusion on the web site identifying case studies and other information useful for HF training for NDT operations.
Action TC
14.17 Send NDT HF material to TC.Action All
14.18 Seek comment from CASA SSI on the strictness of interpretation of the Part 145 MOS in regard to HF training. Action RA
14.19 Circulate a summary of RAAF activities to members.Action GL
14.20 Enter into discussions with CASA to determine the nature and content of NDT awareness training the Board could provide Action GB
14.21 Offer comments on the Bob Holdsworth presentation to CH for consolidation and forward to RA. Action CH & All
14.22 Identify a nominee for Sec/Treas by March 2013Action All
14.23 RQ to arrange transition to GB. Action RQ
15. Schedule of the next meeting – November 2012
16. Close – 1450
Colin Hockings
Secretary