DRAFT MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE ON MONDAY 2nd OCTOBER 2017 IN THE MARKET HALL at 2.30pm
Present: Cllr L. Jardine, Chairman
Cllr R. Plant ex officio
Cllr P. Dunnett ex officio
Cllr. P. Ewart
Cllr J. Fisher
Cllr J. Smith
In attendance: Maddie Gallop, Town Clerk/RFO
Cllr Miss P. MacKay
1. TO RECEIVE DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST:
· To receive amendments to the register – None declared
· To receive declarations of pecuniary interest in respect of items on the agenda – None declared
· To receive declarations of non- pecuniary interest in respect of items on the agenda – None declared
· To consider full/partial dispensations for pecuniary interests declared – None received
2. TO RECEIVE APOLOGIES FOR AND CONSENT TO ABSENCE: All present
3. TO APPROVE AND SIGN AS A TRUE RECORD THE MINUTES OF MEETING ON 4th SEPTEMBER 2017 - Cllr Fisher required amendment to number 4 1st bullet point after skate park… add “Cllr Fisher thought that this allegation was unfair”. Cllr Fisher also requested amendment to number 7- 3rd bullet point- delete the first sentence. After amendment Cllr Smith proposed the minutes as correct, seconded Cllr Plant. Motion carried on majority. Cllr Fisher abstained.
4. TO APPROVE THE VARIOUS INVOICES RECEIVED FOR PAYMENT FOR THE TOWN COUNCIL, SAX IN BLOOM AND
THE MARKET HALL: papers to be circulated.
Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that she and the Town Clerk had liaised all morning regarding the budget forecast. Cllr Mrs Jardine went through all payments on both the Town Council and Market Hall that required payment. She advised that objections were made at the last meeting regarding payment of salaries and pensions. The only way to do this without putting all individual names is that as there are two signatories who will check payment they could sign the cheques. Cllr Dunnett advised that we employ three personnel and at the beginning of the year when the budget is set it was felt that meant the authorization by full Council has already been made and can clearly be seen in the documentation. Cllr Plant advised that salaries are not part of the data protection act because it only relates to medical records. Cllr Fisher stated that at this point payments have been made in accordance with what we have already agreed.
However Cllr Fisher expressed concern over the payments to the Architect as he stated that the work should be agreed before it has begun. Cllr Miss MacKay explained that it was talked about last November and various amounts were discussed. Cllr Fisher advised that the amount for the work on the Market Hall for the Architect and Surveyor had not been put into the budget and even if it had been put into the budget the payments had not been agreed. All work should be agreed before it commences. Cllr Mrs Jardine proposed the invoice payments as correct, seconded by Cllr Ewart. Motion carried on majority. Cllr Fisher objected. Cllr Dunnett advised that he had some sympathy with Cllr Fisher’s comments on this particular subject as this item constantly causes us trouble in so much as how the bill is presented to this Town Council. When you deal with public money we have to have a clear process. Cllr Smith thought the process is flawed and the working party group must get authorization before any work commences. Procedures have to be tightened up and every job must be minuted by the Council. Cllr Plant advised that these fees will increase and until we have a Feasibility Study which often costs around 10% of the project a planning application cannot be applied for. Cllr Dunnett is not disputing this fact but emphasized the need to obtain an estimate and agreement from the Town Council before the work is commenced. Cllr Smith is very concerned the VAT issue on the Market Hall which could amount to half a million pounds and is not on the agenda. He went on to say that it has not been dealt with in the appropriate way and our Consultants did not understand what he required. Cllr Smith thought that at some point we need to discuss this in detail. The problem is that whether this is wholly a Trustee matter or whether it impacts on the Market Hall. The Clerk informed the Councillors that she had contacted our Consultants regarding the VAT and they are trying to organize what Cllr Smith had requested , a Conference call with a Barrister which would cost in the region of £3,500 to £3,750 for preparation and advice on the call depending on the volume of paperwork to consider. Elysian would also participate in the call to consider the VAT aspects of the Barristers advice which is included in the fee quoted. The Town Clerk said that she had been advised not to reclaim back any VAT at present on the Market Hall .
Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that Community Action Suffolk had informed her that if a Town Council are running a Market Hall as Trustees they can claim back the VAT and issued a paper, no 8, for advice. After much discussion Cllr Ewart advised that he would contact a Barrister, known to him, for clarification on this subject. The Barrister known to Cllr Ewart has worked in this field. Cllrs Mrs Jardine, Ewart and Smith will meet as clarity is needed for this proposed project on the Market Hall. A response is needed by February as the Lottery funding application has to be put in.
Cllr Smith stated that he had not been enthused by our present Consultants or with the way they have transmitted his views to the QC and the answer to date is not satisfactory. It is necessary to apply for Heritage funding for over £2 million and VAT recovery on monies spent is essential to the project. Cllr Smith thought one meeting with the Barrister known to Cllr Ewart would be beneficial. Cllr Fisher thought that the relationship with the Trust and the VAT matter is very important.
5. TO CONSIDER THE EXPENDITURE OF ROAD CLOSURE FOR THE CHRISTMAS IN SAXMUNDHAM EVENT: The Town Clerk had informed Cllr Ewart that the cost of road closure without gatemen is £379.65 plus VAT. Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that this cost could come under the events budget but the Town Council still has to pay for the large Christmas tree and the two small ones from this budget with additional costs for the erection of the trees. Cllr Ewart proposed the Town Council accept the cost of the road closure, seconded Cllr Plant. Unanimously agreed. Motion carried. This event will be held on Saturday 2nd December. Cllr Dunnett explained that as our budget is tightly strained we need to think about next Christmas and other projects as soon as possible. He went on to say that maybe we should set up some fund raising for Christmas e.g. boxes in shops for people to put spare change in. Cllr Plant reminded everyone of the cost of Christmas lights which is an agenda item at next Monday’s T.C.meeting.
6. TO AGREE THE EXPENDITURE FOR PROVISION OF “3D WALK THROUGH” FOR THE CONSULTATION WITH THE COMMUNITY ON THE 16th NOVEMBER 2017 REGARDING THE MARKET HALL DEVELOPMENT: Cllr Miss MacKay advised that a good presentation to update projected plans with a walk through 3D Artists impression would be very beneficial. The cost is at a rate of £100 per day to produce a number of computer generated images drawn from the plans provided by the Architect to explain the plans to the community. This will probably take five days to produce but a simple digitialized presentation is essential for everyone to see and understand. The Market Hall working group are asking for authorisation from the Council for this expenditure between £300 to £500. A written estimate will be requested when Cllr Miss MacKay attends a meeting later on today. Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that this can be discussed when we come onto the budget sheet item number 9. A visual presentation was shown to most people present from Cllr Smith. Cllr Mrs Jardine requested Councillors look at the latest budget update circulated by the Clerk, other grants is £13000, charitable grants will probably be £10000, one outstanding for £1000 CAB. We could allow £3000 for Market Hall re-development which is the only budget category the £500 could be placed under. Cllr Mrs Jardine proposed a limit on a 3D presentation for £500, once the written estimate has been received. Cllr Fisher voiced a number of queries which Cllr Mrs Jardine answered. Cllr Ewart seconded. Motion carried on majority. Cllr Fisher against. However this expenditure will be ratified at the Town Council meeting on Monday 9th October 2017.
7. TO DISCUSS THE ACCOUNT OF MEN IN SHEDS:
The Town Clerk advised that a bank account was originally opened at the onset of this project. However the Clerk has opened a Town Council bank account for this project and for clarification purposes she will liaise with Cllr Turner. Men in Sheds needs to progress and we will give this until the end of the financial year to progress.
8. TO AGREE AN EXTENSION OF THE CURRENT YOUTH PEOPLE SERVICE AGREEMENT: Cllr Plant advised that our Service Level Agreement for Young People expires at the end of December. Cllr Plant had previously circulated some explanatory documents for the Councillors to consider and requested support from the Finance committee to take it forward to the Town Council to confirm that there is £20k in the budget. We need to decide whether we are continuing with our SLA provider and extend it for another 12 months or whether we are going to start again and go out to tender. Cllr Plant stated that as long as the £20000 is confirmed for expenditure the SLA provider can be discussed on Monday. He confirmed that we have renewed our planning application in perpetuity and we own the building which is on the Memorial Field. Cllr Plant advised that we had not received any complaints whatsoever about ACT who received good attendance from our youth. Cllr Plant explained that If we go out to tender it will cost a further £3 to £4k when our present providers ACT have done nothing wrong and it would be unjust not to agree an extension. However Cllr Fisher said the money is not there – what we have got is £10000 which is for a further six months. Cllr Smith said that in the SLA there is no criteria for evaluation. Cllr Plant explained that ACT should continue to seek funding from elsewhere and they already have. The terms agreed before were in conjunction with Rachel Rowe at SCC and we began the process with an Ormiston Trust report. Cllr Plant advised that he would hate us not to provide this service to our youth in Saxmundham. A number of issues were debated and Cllr Plant re-emphasised the need to bring it to the Council. Cllr Smith said he agreed in principle but this is a grant and we set a framework for grant aid. He said that albeit it is high priority one as we need to provide services to young people. Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that we have budget setting to do in November and we have to decide about the provision of £20000. Cllr Fisher agreed that when we set this SLA up we had agreed 2 years but he thought we needed a review of who is actually providing the service and whether we want to put it out to tender and that is a major consideration. Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that if we put it out to tender it would a further £3k to £4k as this is what it cost last time and it is a long process. Cllr Mrs Jardine re-iterated that she personally did not have any problems with ACT. Cllr Ewart said that as ACT have not done anything wrong he queried whether we had the grounds to go out to tender other than it costs £20k. ACT have regularly reported to us of their progress. Cllr Plant said he brought this up so that we could agree to renew the tender or go through a costly process of going out for a new tender. Cllr Smith that this is a grant we can choose to give it to ACT or not. Cllr Smith instincts on this are providing the amount and conditions are right he is entirely in support of this. Cllr Ewart stated for continuity he agrees with continuing with ACT as it is a waste of time and money to do otherwise. Only last month ACT did a presentation on how they are going to enhance their services. Agenda item on Monday. Cllr Smith proposed that In principle we agree to funding at this amount into the future for this purpose. Cllr Fisher explained that he was not questioning the amount of money but whether we have got the right choice of provider. Seconded Cllr Mrs Jardine. Motion carried.
9. TO CONSIDER THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF THE UPDATE TO THE BUDGET SHEET 2017 2018: Cllr Mrs Jardine advised that there are some amendments in the latest circulated sheet and everyone will need to look at them. There are categories in the budget which should not be in. On this budget sheet for expenditure the category for new office Police Station with forecast costs at £15k should be placed under property maintenance. Similarly, there was a category for H & S but as it is a policy we have deleted it. LG137 has also been removed as we use the Power of Competence for giving grants. The skate park remains but any works to the skate park would be under property maintenance. Last years info is on this sheet and the forecast has been put into property maintenance. Eventually the skate park will be deleted from the expenditure sheets. We have added a category for Consultants fees for the Neighbourhood Plan. We have put in £3500 to go into the budget. Cllr Fisher requested that this category has the name changed to Neighbourhood Plan Consultant fees as we have other consultants for various projects. Property maintenance has obviously gone up due to the change in various categories. The present forecast is not complete. We allowed £6.5k for the asbestos survey and there is also the outstanding RoSPA work on the play areas and we agreed most of the work last year. The Town Clerk requested the work to be carried out immediately but because they haven’t completed the work we are unsure fully how much this will cost. The Town Clerk advised the committee that there has been a change of personnel and they are now catching up with the outstanding work. Cllr Mrs Jardine with the Town Clerk went through the forecast this morning and the categories are important for the new finance system as they have to be altered by themselves. The largest category of expenditure now is property maintenance. We do need a committee structure that looks after the estate and assets but we need to look at this in the new financial year. Cllr Mrs Jardine requested everyone to look at the revised forecast and if any amendments are needed to get in touch with the Clerk. More expenditure will come through. Hedges need to be trimmed on the Memorial Field. Cllr Fisher advised that the hedge near the driveway of the Memorial Field needs trimming. The hedge near the water works needs doing as does the back hedge this year. The remaining two ditches can be cleared next financial year. General reserves – £1.4k CIL money gets moved to earmarked reserves for now but in the new year it gets moved to property maintenance. Full Council need to agree this. £1.6k retention fee on the skate park – we have to wait to hear about this.