Oral History, Educating Harlem Project, Teachers College, Columbia University
Narrator:Laura Pires-Hester, Social Worker and Organizer with Harlem Youth Opportunities Unlimited, Inc (HARYOU) and the Women’s Talent Corps (“R”)
Interviewer: Nick Juravich, PhD Candidate in History, Columbia University(“I”)
Date:March 9, 2015
Location:Laura Pires-Hester’s home in Riverdale, New York City
I:So we are recording. Excellent. And I can see the dial moving, I can see the clock ticking. Could I ask you to count to five?
R:One-two-three-four-five.
I:Perfect. Uh-, and actually, one more time.
R:One-two-three-four-five.
I:Excellent. Well, in that case we'll be ready to begin. Um-, this is Nick Juravich uh-, recording with Dr. Laura Pires-Hester.
R:Pires. [corrects pronunciation]
I:Pires.
R:Pires. P-I-R-E-S. It's actually, it means saucer in Portuguese. And as you know, my own background is Cape Verdean. So um-, it is not Pi-. Well, I shouldn't say it isn't Pires because some of my family in Massachusetts pronounce it as Pires. And it's not Perez, P-E-R-E-Z, which is what I've gotten ever since going out of my own hometown. People just want to-, even after I spell it, people will spell it back, P-E-R-E-Z. I say, did you hear me say P-E-R-E-Z?
I:(laughter)
R:So-. It's Pires. I'm sorry.
I:That's quite all right.
R:That's OK.
I:Thank you.
R:Right.
I:And we-, we're here in your lovely apartment. Uh-, in Riverdale. And we're going to talk today about paraprofessional educators uh-, in many contexts. And thank you so much for being with me.
R:Thank you. And it's uh-, I'm delighted and honored to be a part of the process and hope that uh-, what I can share will be helpful to you. Um-. I guess just to start back, I was, as you know, born in Massachusetts [squealing of recording while speaking: in a small town] which is about 50 miles southeast of Boston. And as you know, since you've been to Westportand know Massachusetts, uh-, the closest city is New Bedford.
And I was born in, in a-, not only a small town but also a, a lesser well known part of the town in which many of the other households were basically part of my extended family. And I went to the local high school, uh-, public school. The only high school in the town. And I was al-, always a very shy student and quiet. A, a good student basically. Uh-. And during my sophomore year we had an influx of new teachers. Younger teachers who came into the town. And they sort of took the system and our class by storm. And at the same time, we also had a uh-, woman-. We also had someone come into the school system as a guidance counselor. We had never-. The school had never really had a professional guidance counselor. And she was working at uh-, Harvard School of Education with uh-, David Teeterman. And she took a particular--.
She was interested in everybody, particularly a lot of her work focused on the, on human potential, particularly in girls and females. A lot of her writing was there and she was particularly interested in what was happening with the Cape Verdean American students um-.
And one of the things which she told me much later – we became friends – uh-, was that as she began to know, know them more, the Cape Verdean American students and also know the larger culture of the schools and the faculty and, and educational bureaucracy, she was aware that this was a um-, an example of people not really -- when I say people, the professionals in the school systems -- not really looking with great expectations as to what was, what happened with uh-, and for the education of Cape Verdean Americans. Not across the board.
I have to say that basically my recollection of my own experience is pretty positive. But I also know that there were underlying-, there was underlying stuff um-. And she had, she told me later that when she came into the high school, she was told by a couple of the teachers, um-, watch or pay attention to Laura Pires. And uh-, she's bright and etc., etc., all these positive things about me as a student. And she needs--. Probably they-. They probably said she needs guidance or she needs your help or whatever. And one of the um-.
As I myself have looked back at my own formative uh-, years, I realize that there was critical decision points within my own life journey. And one of them had to do with this particular person. Esther Matthews was her name. She just, just died about two, three years ago in Oregon. Um-. I was in the, in the-, when we were-, came into the high school in the ninth grade, um-. I was I guess encouraged to go into the college course. And at the end of that year, I remember that I decided to change to the general business course. And I realized that my reason was that most, if not all but one other Cape Verdean American student, including my own cousin, a first cousin, uh-, were in the general business or the vocational.
So I didn't talk--. I don't remember talking about this with anyone. I don't remember talking about this with my family. And of course, my father was a, um-, an immigrant from Cape Verde. My mother was born here. Her parents were immigrants. So although they were very concerned that I do well, uh-, they didn't really know the specifics of the, of the educational system. So I just did this and I don't remember--. This was before Esther Matthews came into the high school. And I don't remember any teacher asking me any questions about it. It's possible, but I don't remember any of that.
So I did this year as a tenth grade student in the general business course. And I learned to type, which was (heh, heh) you know, probably one of the best skills that all of us can learn, even though we're now much beyond that with the technology. But it basically [laughing while talking: starts] with the uh-, the fundamentals. Um-. And at the-, toward the end of that year, I be-, I remember that I began to think: Well. OK. I now know the, the fundamentals of general business and ledger and typing and all of that. I'm not sure what, what else there is for me to learn here. So I switched back to the college course.
And again, I don't remember that anybody had any conversation with me about it. I just did it. Um-. But it was a, it was, it was a-, as I said, a critical decision point because I knew that that, there was some significance in that. And I also knew that some of my Cape Verdean friends were much smarter [laughing while talking: than the rest] of, you know, most of the other students in my classes. Um-. And so-. I also learned-. My, my guidance counselor also told me years after I graduated--. She left and she was actually asked to leave. Uh-, probably the next year or even the year following my graduation. And she said that when it came time for awarding the highest scholarship, which at that point was $500 from Theodore Barthe, it's-, that is a scholarship that I think is still continued. It was a long term endowment from some person. Um-. She was on the scholarship committee, of course, and there were, I think, two or three other people. And she shared with me that in that discussion, they were trying to decide who would be the person to receive this. And they were going names after names. And she said, well, you know, what about Laura Pires? She's already been accepted at Smith. She, by the way, had driven me to Smith with a teacher, one of these new teachers who was a Smith graduate. And the two of them took me up. I had no idea what Smith College was. Of course, my family didn't know. You know, it was a college. But--. That was it. Um-. And she's a top student. So why not her?
And the response was, she never told me, she never identified the person who responded. The response was: Well, we can't send her to Smith College. Then who's going to come back and pick the cranberries? As you probably know, cranberries is a, is one of the, the maj-, if not, well, I'm not sure. Probably is still, in terms of the actual economy, major industries in uh-, in that part of the town. Uh-. Ironically, or as history would have it, in 1997, one of my high school classmates asked me if I would be the graduation speaker for the high school class. And they had invited President Clinton, Hillary Clinton [laughing while talking: somebody else. And they didn't-, and] and I happened to see him at a class reunion. He said: You know, I'm, I'm faculty advisor and I don't, you know, I-, we don’t have anybody yet. And I said: Fine.
And I actually told that story which um-, gave me a-, it was, it was a-, a wonderful kind of uh-, vindication. Not in revenge necessarily. I-, I actually-. The uh-. What I was talking about is life lessons. And one of the things I was uh-, one of my points was that where you are today or what you are today does not define necessarily what you will be, can be and, and um-, need to work towards. So this was a perfect example of that. Um-.
So--. I went to Smith. And for the longest time, I, you know, was wondering myself why am I here? How come I'm here? Uh-. Everybody else was-. Not everybody. But most people, most of the, my classmates were coming from private school educations and um-, music lessons and, etc. etc. Having traveled, smoking, or reading the [laughing while talking: New York Times every day.] Two of the things which I thought were, you know, that's really the most sophisticated that you can be. And the New Yorker, um-, which was um-, a number of the students in my class -- I was in the scholarship house -- were um-, actually from New York. Um-. And that was, that was another critical, you know, part of my own personal and individual formation. Um-.
While I was at Smith, uh-, and trying to decide what to do next, I became a part of um-. I was invited to join something that emerged out of New York, the National Association of Social Workers. It was called the Social Recruiting-. Social Work Recruiting--. Something. Recruiting Network or something. And I came to New York while I was still in my junior year and was placed in a uh-, child welfare uh-, organization, which is still existing. It's now instead of just child welfare and residence and uh-, a uh-, rheumatic fever or heart patient, Irvington House in Irvington, New York. Um-.
So that was really an exposure to a particular field. I was an English major. And I was an English major because uh-, the sociologist whom I worked with at, in my junior year, it was the first class I had as a seminar group. And Michael Olmstead. And I loved him. And my plan was to do Honors work with him. And at the end of that year, he died of leukemia. Uh-. And I knew the other persons in the sociology department. It was a very small department. But I didn't really think that was, that was for me. So I went with probably [laughing while talking: 75 percent] of the other students became an English major and minored in sociology.
Um-, years later, when I was vice president of the New York Theological Seminary, one of the students happened to be his daughter. And when she was go-, beginning, when she was going to be ordained, she asked that I do the charge. And I met uh-, his, her mother and the family, etc. So-. It's always a small world. You know. So we know this. Um-. So I was thinking, OK. Maybe I'll, I'll go do social work in graduate school. And I spoke to the uh-, dean of Howard Parad at, at the Smith College Social-, School of Social Work, which is one of the first schools of social work in the country. And I kept going back to him and trying to decide, trying to decide. And he said: Look. I had him in a seminar also. He said: Look. We'd love to have you here, but I really think you want to be in New York. So--. (heh, heh) That kind of gave me, you know-. I was not betraying him and Smith. So I came to New York and did my work at Columbia.
During my experience with um-, social work recruiting, by the way, we had a cohort of people who were in New York agencies and one of those who was, became my friend, was Mickey Schwerner. And he and I and two others within that group all went to Columbia, at the same time, we were in the-, in that class. And Mickey and I became quite friendly and I remember a group work professor -- my concentration was group work – one day - he was my advisor as well – took me aside and said: I see that you're friendly with Mickey. And I said: Sure. He said: Uh-, you know, you should tell him that he needs to be careful. That some of the professors see him as – I don't think he used the word radical uh-, but that was the gist of it. So you should tell him that, you know, if he wants to do well or whatever. And he, I'm sure he meant very well. And, and I don't know why he would have, would not have spoken to Mickey directly. Um-. And I just-, you know, didn't say yes or no. I did share it with Mickey. Uh-. And I knew that, that he was thinking about-. That was-. He didn't finish. That was in '63. And that's when he went, he went south. And he had married um-, Rita, um-. And he had another friend who, she and I were also close and we roomed together in the first year. That was uh-. That was a tough-. That was very tough to (___?).
He was a wonderful, wonderful human being. Um-. Anyway. Um-. So, where, where am I? (___?) So I was in New York and my field supervisor was Kenneth Marshall, a faculty at Columbia. And he-. I was placed-. My-. I had two placements. One was a-, the first year placement was a community center in a, a housing project in the Bronx. And the second was in a more protected, like a group placement uh-. There were several of us in, in a in-, what used to be called the Institute for Rehabilitation. It's now some-, I think it's the Rusk Institute or something. Downtown, where we had a, a specific uh-, faculty member who was a supervisor on site. And we had six students.
So the first one was like jump in. (heh, heh) And do everything. That everything that everybody is doing, which I think is a wonderful, you know, the-, the, the two different experiences were, were excellent in tandem. And again, at the end of that when I was graduating, um-, I was trying to figure out where would I, where would I work, and most of my colleagues in the class were taking positions that were pretty much straight within the social work track. Uh-. Either doing case work at, at uh-, case work agencies. Um-. And Kenneth was one of the early developers of the um-, what became the HARYOU and then the HARYOU-ACT experience. That he and uh-, Dr. Kenneth Clarkand Dr. James Jones. And James Jones was my research professor at Columbia.
So Ken suggested-. He suggested first that I look into working at Spofford. That was one of the agencies that he had students in that was a um-, a detention center in the Bronx where the doors were locked and all of that. And I visited and I said I don't think [laughing while talking: this is what I want to do.]So I took-, I, I learned about HARYOU. And went to work with-. I was supervised by both him and the research professor. [laughing while talking: So my--]. I've always said an experience of slash, you know, like the Women's Talent Corps/proposed College for Human Services. I was program/research assistant. Um-.
So that kind of uh-, mushing of boundaries and some people would call it ambiguity or whatever has always been perfectly OK with me. Um-. I, I think it's the [laughing while talking: way to go, actually.] Um-. So and at HARYOU, it was, again, a major, major critical decision point. I was given, when I started-, actually the day before I graduated, uh-. We graduated on a Tuesday afternoon, and I actually started at HARYOU that Monday. And Kenneth gave me a sheet of paper that had a, like a half page, couple paragraphs on developing a leadership training program for that summer. And he said, OK. We're going to start this program in the beginning of July. So put it together. (laughter) (___?) So we started. And I worked in, with a, another person that he had working with him.
And basically it was a-, it, I used the social work model with-, it was to be a stipend program. And it was the um-, we had, I think 32-. We selected 32 young people between 14 and, and 18 or 19. And they-, we had them in four different groups where they would-. We would do seminars and, and sessions on Mondays and Fridays. You bring in speakers. And then Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday they would be at different placements. We had a group work contingent and that was mine as well as we had arts and culture and heritage and music. Music and art. Music and art. So we had a-. And that was a wonderful-. We had so many professionals who wanted to work within HARYOU. And Kenneth, in particular, had relationships with a number of these uh-, excellent professional musicians. Uh-. KennyDorham (sp?)and Bill Jones and Jackie McLean, and, and Julian Euell. And etc. So they worked with young people in the, in the arts and culture segment. And we had John Henrik Clarke - I'm sure you've come across his name – working with the young people uh-, teaching. That they would teach young people heritage sessions.