Minutes of Meeting of Tentative List Expert Advisory Group – 14 November 2008.
Attendance:
Lord Donald Hankey (Chair) / President ICOMOS UKJoe Crockett
Dr. Brendan Dunford / Local Authorities
Member of Heritage Council
Professor George Eogan / Retired Archaeologist
Peter Cox / Vice President ICOMOS Ireland
Brian Lucas / DoEHLG – Heritage Policy
Anne Costello
Mr Finian Mathews / DoEHLG – Heritage Policy
DoEHLG - National Monuments
Dr. Rebecca Jeffreys
Mr. Martin Colreavy / DoEHLG – NPWS
DoEHLG – Chief Architect
Dermot Burke / OPW
Dr. Claire Cave
Mr. Adrian Phillips
Mr. Charles Stanley Smith / UniversityCollegeDublin
IUCN
An TAISCE
Apologies:
Dr. Jukka Jokelihto, UNESCO Expert; Mr.Ciaran O’Keefe, DoEHLG (National Parks and Wildlife Service); Brian K Duffy DoEHLG National Monuments; Eugene Keane (OPW)
As a number of group members were unable to attend the last meeting the Chair invited all members to introduce themselves and indicate what area of expertise they were representing. The Chair summarised briefly for those members attending for the first time the actions undertaken by the Group to date and a number of the key issues which have been identified for further consideration.
Agenda Item 1 – Adoption of Minutes of Meeting of 23 October 2008:
The Minutes were adopted with some minor amendments.
Agenda Item 2 – Examination of the Terms of Reference (TOR) of the Expert Group:
The Terms of Reference for the Group were considered by the Group. It was agreed that the TOR drafted by the DoEHLG were comprehensive and covered the issues to be considered by the Expert Group. The TOR document was validated by the Group.
Before moving on to Agenda Item 3 the Chair invited Mr. Adrian Phillips to present his thoughts on the Tentative List Review process being undertaken by the Group to date and in particular to provide his views on the natural heritage as this element was not represented at the initial meeting of the Group. Mr. Phillips indicated that he considers the approach to be taken as set out in the Research Document is a good one and in line with the UNESCO Operational Guidelines and best international practice. He indicated that he works with IUCN and provided an insight into IUCN and its approach. He informed the meeting that opportunities for natural sites are substantially less than cultural sites. IUCN assess such sites against 4 of the 10 criteria and in a global context. He went on to provide examples of natural heritage sites, mixed sites, and cultural landscapes. Mr. Adrian Phillips, when asked for further clarification by Mr. Finian Matthews on cultural landscape referred group members to the definition of cultural landscape on page 47 of the Operational Guidelines.
The Chair in referring to the reports provided by group members indicated that there is a need to order our thinking in the reports. The Chair recognized that there were administrative problems in that reports were received too close to the meeting to allow an examination of the reports by the Secretariat or the Chair and that the reports were drawn up in a variety of ways some of them did not address whether the site has OUV. To this end the Chair presented to the Group a proposed format document which will ensure that the information required to assess the OUV and other relevant information such as significance, authenticity and integrity of potential sites will be provided in a manner that will enable the Group to identify in an open, fair, and transparent manner those sites with the attributes most likely to attain inscription on the WHL.
Agenda Item 3 – Review of Reports on Sites on Current Tentative List:
(a) The Boglands of North-West Mayo and Clara Bog - Ciaran O’Keefe
Ms. Costello indicated that Ciaran O’Keefe decided that we should discount the boglands. He said that while in the past the North Mayo Bogs were indeed of outstanding quality, however, currently Ireland is fending off imposition of fines by the European Court of Justice for overgrazing on Owenduff Bog. The site is currently not of outstanding quality or sufficiently protected. Putting the bog onto the Tentative List would be an indication of its importance and could enhance its protection into the future. It may be possible to examine the case for this site in future years. Commenting on this the Chair suggested that the DoEHLG may need to commission a study to see if a restoration Programme is required or a protection programme to be put in place.
Agreed Action:
It was agreed that Ciaran /Rebecca draw up a report on the Boglands in line with the Format Document drafted by the Chair to enable the Expert Group to assess the potential of the boglands properly as to whether they can be considered for inclusion on the Tentative List.
(b) The Burren - Brendan Dunford
The report indicated that the Burren would ideally be a cultural landscape site. The report also identified a need for a strategic integrated approach to the management of the Burren. Adrian Phillips pointed out the importance of the integrity and management of such sites in terms of OUV. He also said that glaciated Karst is quite unusual and Adrian indicated that he would email the contact details of Karst experts to Brendan to assist with a comparative analysis with other Karst landscapes around the world. The management issues in an evolving landscape if the nature of interaction is giving rise to change can be very challenging. There is a need to be confident that you can manage the change perhaps from peripheral development. Preserving the context poses a great challenge and the Buffer Zone is critical. How to manage change in an empathetic manner is the challenge. Dr. Claire Cave indicated that she had a thesis which addresses the issues of where to draw the boundaries for the Burren were it to be nominated for WH status and she will make it available to Brendan for the purposes of the report. The benefits of Academic Research and input was welcomed by the Group.
Agreed Action
Brendan will explore the comparative analysis in respect of the Karst landscape and in relation to Biodiversity to see if criterion 8 applies as well as criterion 5. The report will need to identify whether the Burren will be a mixed site or a cultural landscape.
(c) Rock of Cashel – Dermot Burke
The report on the Rock of Cashel indicated that it is a cultural site. Brendan Dunford indicated that there is a surfeit of cultural sites already on the WHL. Dermot Burke said that the site could also be considered as part of a Kingship thematic nomination with the other 4 High Kingship sites in Ireland. The Chair again indicated that the Group needs an Anthropologist on the Group to identify the significance of the interaction of such sites with the communities, the connection with pagan ritual and the influence of historic qualities in the Development of Christianity. That especially meant uniquely Irishness, the essence of what it means to be Irish and the impact that has had around the world. This may well be a part of a serial nomination.
Joe Crockett then spoke of Irish Christianity and its impact in a European context as well as in America. This may well involve the synthesis of many sites such as Glendalough, Armagh, Kells and Clonmacnoise and the question is how can we draw them together and identify OUV from an Academic perspective.
Agreed Action
A comparative study needs to be done. Also a small group of Experts (3) should be established to examine the Tangible Historical and Anthropological aspects of the Christianity theme. Dr. Cave ageed to contact the School of Archaeology and History to identify experts for the Group.
(d) Céide Fields – Dermot Burke
The report on the Céide Fields which was drafted by Gretta Byrne Archaeologist and Neolithic Specialist, was considered. The report states that the system is unique in the world and is the best manifestation of this type of farming system. Comparing it to a small system in Denmark but nothing on the scale of Céide Fields. This site does not just deal with farming but also with the ritual aspects as well. There are megalithic tombs which have been excavated. Contemporary yet undiscovered expressions of field social habitation and stone remains. While there is much known of the cultural heritage more surveys and information is needed.
Agreed Action
Dermot is to carry out more work. A proper comparative analysis is required . A need to consider the planning consequences of what you intend to designate. Dramatic Climate Change appears to have caused the vegetation to grow over the system and form bogs etc what was actually happening all around Ireland at that time. We need to see how this impacted on society in those times and the result of the interaction.
At this point Adrian Phillips mentioned that there was a sub-category of the organically evolved type of cultural landscape as set out in Annex 3 to the Operational Guidelines page 88 – which may be appropriate in this context: the relict or fossil cultural landscape when an evolutionary process came to an end at some point in the future.
(e) KillarneyNational Park (KNP) – Rebecca Jeffreys for Ciaran O’Keefe
Whilst KillarneyNational Park is unquestionably of great national significance the report suggests that OUV is questionable. However, there are other similar national parks around the country such as Glenveagh in Donegal. Why Killarney? While it has designated EU habitats protected status etc nothing of significance on a global basis.
Agreed Action:
A report in line with the Format Document drafted by the Chair needs to be prepared insofar as KNP is concerned. The report will ensure that the reasoning of the Expert Group is focused and that an informed decision can be made on whether there is any OUV and should it be included on the new list or not.
At this point there was a discussion about the removal of sites from the 1992 list. The Chair and Adrian Phillips indicated that there must be generic reasons for removing somesites or indeed adding other sites. When the 1992 List was established the idea of cultural landscape was not available. The WH Convention has moved on now with the Global Strategy we need to identify what is new. In order to nominate potential sites a more mature understanding of what the Convention is about is now required. This can lead to exciting new ideas.
(f) The Western Stone Forts: - Professor George Eoghan
No report was submitted at this point as clarification was sought in relation to information which was to have been sought from a researcher working on the Discovery Programme on the Western Stone Forts. There are over 40 such forts and research is needed on identifying the best representative sample. Discussion on the forts ensued. It is not clear as to why they were constructed (was it to keep out a common enemy), they exist all along the coast and do demonstrate such consistency over such a wide area. Were they constructed against maritime enemies. It was suggested that Peter Harbison has written about the chevaux de frises, which is a characteristic of such forts. There is also a Documentary by Quinn. These references may be of assistance. It was agreed that there appears to be potential for a transnational site. However we should be aware that management difficulties in one country can affect the overall nomination.
Agreed Action
Professor Eogan to liaise with Claire Cotter of the Discovery Programme to draw up a report on the Forts in line with the Format document drafted by the Chair to enable the Expert Group to make an informed decision on the OUV if any of such Forts. There is a need to draw up a distribution map of such forts. More generally we need to understand what they represent in terms of Bronze Age/Iron Age informing us of a system in that age and how it is relevant to the rest of Europe and wider world. All important forts need to be recorded. There is a need to identify, if there is OUV worthy of designation. These themes are complicated and it was suggested that Paragraph 73 of Operational Guidelines could assist the process.
Agenda Item 4 - Review of other Sites and Previous Public Suggestions:
BlasketIslands – Dermot Burke
An interesting report was provided on the Blaskets and its island life and literature. However we need a comparative analysis with other island examples such as St. Kildas and other island communities around the world. There is a need to look at its characteristics and identify an OUV. Both the Chair and Mr. Phillips agreed that it is very difficult to justify literary tradition. When using criteria VI another criteria must also be used to support it.
Agreed Action
A revised report in line with the Format Document drafted by the Chair needs to be prepared now so that any OUV can be identified and to enable the Expert Group to decide whether it qualifies as a potential site for WH designation.
Aran Islands – Brendan Dunford
The report indicated that the Aran Islands might be considered as a microcosm of the Burren. How unique are they is the question. Again a comparative analysis needs to be carried out. No site can be put forward until its OUV if any is identified. Brendan Dunford stated that Aran Islands has less management issues than the Burren.
Tara – Brian KDuffy
No report was submitted to the Secretariat. The site can be considered either as a stand alone site or part of the High Kingship Theme.
Agreed Action
Brian K Duffy, Finian Matthews and Dermot Burke will draft a report on this site in line with the Format Document drafted by the Chair.
Phoenix Park, Birr and Achill Islands
The report/discussion in relation to these sites found that there is no OUV and that they are not sites with world heritage potential.
Agreed Action
Dermot has been asked to draft reports in line with the Format Document drafted by the Chair for the next meeting setting out why it is considered that there is no OUV for these particular sites.
At this point of the meeting the Chair invited CharlesStanley Smith to address the Group and provide information on the role of An Taisce. Mr. Smith explained that An Taisce is the National Trust for Ireland. It has Properties and holds buildings in trust for local communities. An Taisce has a higher profile role in Advocacy for the Environment than the UK National Trust. It receives funding from DoEHLG. An Taisce has 20 local Associations.
Agenda Item 5 – Consideration of Possible Serial/TransnationalNominations
Under this item 4 possible serial/transnational options were identified for consideration by the Groupas follows:-
- Early Christian Built Heritage and Christian Monastic Heritage and that “essence of Irishness” the Chair indicated that he would speak to Jukka Jokelihto about his thoughts on this
- The Stone Forts there could be a difficulty extending management of sites to isolated monuments eg monument remains we need to exercise judgement here.
- The Walled Towns with Derry Walled Town
- An Islands Theme with the Blaskets
Agreed Action
The Chair said he will write a note on how we will deal with Serial type nominations and will report back to the Group on possibilities for serial transnational nominations. This should inform us on what we can and cannot manage. It will be useful to have good examples of serial nominations to assist us.
Agenda item 6 – Consideration of Themes and Thematic Approaches:
Viking Ireland
The Irish experts on the Group were requested to identify any appropriate potential Viking sites that might possibly be included in a Viking theme with other countries. The opinion of the experts is that there is very little if any Viking sites left in existence in Ireland. The Chair suggested that we consider how it finds expression in records of excavation.
Agreed Action
Ms. Costello will clarify with Brian K Duffy and Dr. Patrick Wallace, the Viking expert in Ireland to clarify if there are any suitable Viking Sites that may have OUV to be included in a thematic approach.
Royal Sites
This theme was discussed under Agenda Item 4
Agreed Action
Brian K Duffy, Finian and Dermot to consider
Christianity
Iconography, religious themes how unique are they what are their universal qualities, they need to be more than just unique. The Chair stated that work needs to be done to express these themes. Agreed Action under Agenda Items3 and 5
Georgian Dublin – Peter Cox
The report here refers to 4 well-known Squares however OUV was not proven. Reference to the Literary aspects but lacks proof or evidence of connection. OUV not proven. The Chair said that there is a need to identify OUV or not.
Agreed Action
The Chair requested that Peter complete his thoughts on this site and see if an OUV can be established or not. There is a great need to protect the urban grain.
Ireland’s Walled Towns – Brian Lucas
Jacqui Donnelly drafted a paper on this topic. However the report needs to be done in line with the Format Document prepared by the Chair. An international comparative analysis needs to be undertaken. With 56 Walled Towns does this contribute to a theme. Do they express a unique mode of settlement in a specified period.