MINUTES OF MEETING (38)
CANADA WATER CONSULTATION FORUM
Date: 26th June, 2006
Venue: Alfred Salter School, Quebec Way, Rotherhithe, SE16 7LP
FORUM MEMBERS:
Cllr Lisa Rajan (CLR) Pauline Adenwalla (PA) Barry Duckett (BD)
Gary Glover (CG) John Hellings (JHs) Brian Hodge (BH)
Jan Goodfellow (JG) Janet Hodge (JH) Lisa Hollamby (LH)
Abuka Issa (AI) Ilkan Osman (IO) Ian Moore (IM)
Gareth Osborn (GO) Stephen Platts (SP) FAITH Rep
Kath Wittam (KW) Spencer Whitworth (SW) YOUTH Rep
IN ATTENDANCE:
Bold names above +
Shirley Anderson (SA) Minute Sec.
Anna Devlet (AD) BL-Canada Quays Ltd.
Adrian Whittle (AW)LBS Libraries & Culture
Dr Bob Muid (BM)
Dr Nicholas Falk (NF) URBED
Ruth Johnson (RJ) M & N
Cllr Paul Noblet (PN)
Rt. Hon. Simon Hughes MP(from 7.55) (SH)
Philip Baker, Martin Cakebread, Marion Carson(Vol.Centre), Steve Cornish, Jeremy Simons, Mike Foulds, Alan Halladay, Christian Junge, Len Hatch, Gary Magold, Christine McCarthy, Cllr. Danny McCarthy, David Meagher, Michelle Page-Jones, Derek Partridge (DP), David Pilkington, Sue Stewart, Lorraine Smith, Ann Smith, Chris Thomson,
APOLOGIES:
Cllr Lisa Rajan, Cllr Thomas, Cllr Columba Blango, Val Shawcross, Cllr Fiona Colly, Gareth Osborn, Cllr Hubber, Cllr Hook, Stephen Platts
1. WELCOME & APOLOGIES:
PA welcomed everyone and gave apologies received.
2. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING (27/2/06):
There were no comments on the Minutes and these were accepted.
3. MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES
Multi-modal Study - on table for people to pick up
Mellish facility: PA had no update. A Committee meeting is being held on Wednesday 28 June 2006.
Future of the Forum - to be dealt with under AOB
4. Audit of Rotherhithe Open Spaces by URBED – Dr Nicholas Falk explained that Southwark had commissioned URBED to do this audit in order to come up with a master plan/ investment strategy/ development proposals for Canada Water. He wanted to know if the Forum had questions/concerns. Concern of Parks Dept. re open spaces had been well noted. What was to be done to knit different parts of Rotherhithe together? Special desire to retain what is special about the area including wildlife. There was not enough for young people to do and the feeling that the area, although it has received a lot development was by no means complete. NF had noted lack of signage on arrival at tube station. Southwark need factual basis for proposals, to decide what sort of strategy would make most sense – linking together deserted parts, including space for walking and cycling. URBED would hold workshops with local people. URBED wants to go in with specific proposals so needs to talk to interested groups and in light of these talks would like to identify priorities. Need also to investigate how to resource and sustain improvement.
Q. PN: What is time frame?
A. Want to do this over period of summer – we should have come to decision by lst September 2006.
Q. GG suggested presence of URBED at large scale event on 8th July in Southwark Park
Q. BH said it would be helpful to have idea of boundary of the project. Could we have a map?
A. Whole of the peninsular but not including Southwark Park.
Q. BH was worried by Press Release re Section 106 and terms of reference – has the importance of these been discussed?
A. On numerous occasions - areas held in trust.
Q: PA Will your work have any interface with the Southwark Streetscape proposal?
A. Ideas in line with the proposals set out in the Streetscape document which includes principal of shared services.
Danny McCarthy reminded meeting that it was because of pressures on local Council we started pressure groups. Recommends NF does not miss Rotherhithe Festival. Would like to see copy of URBED Brief, adding that we guard our open land very jealously.
Derek Partridge: RC area is going to be designated a Cultural Area in the UDP. It is already a protected part of area.
SW – open spaces need to be safer, reflect heritage and be used by young people.
PN raised question of access to facility – is there anywhere for people to hang around near to where they live?
Steve Cornish mentioned the safety issue – we are not interested in passive surveillance, we need police and wardens.
BH thought this would be ideal for experiments on area management. It could well be a social enterprise as space is so clearly defined.
5. Sites A, B & Public Realm – amendments to applications BL-CQ – Anna Devlet
Planning application submitted in November 2005. Scheme amendments at August committee meeting as follows:
A1: drop back the building edge.
A2: Needleman Park redefined
A3: Pump House Link in line with A2 and A1 – increased paved area
B1: taken out site for restaurant, put in children’s play area with ground
B2: swapped usage between Maple Mews and side of B2 facing Plaza
On edge of A3 made it rounded and dropped to 8 storeys
Library shifted down, better use of civic square, more cycle parking and visitors’ parking
CD rom will be re-issued and Bob Muid (BM) will put details on website (www.canadawater.org). Plans will be available to view at Time& Talents and Rotherhithe Library in Albion Street.
Pump House: paving for better access – width maintained – it will be up to same standard as other pathways.
Height of middle building stays the same but becomes staggered at the top.
Jeremy Simons: Who is responsible for the cost of Deal Porter Square maintenance?
A: Either Council or management committee. We are including additional public space for the future
New plans finalised.
John Hellings: Who decides on naming Square or Plaza?
Steve Cornish: Parking ratio of places to apartments is down to 0.65 from what?
A. Can confirm no parking for library
Christian Junge pointed out the blank wall on the plans. What is going to be there now? (raised several items regarding the use of the ground level frontage of B2 facing/near the Plaza)…
A. It was for council offices, café etc. now it is going to be retail area. There will be sub-level parking.
Also mentioned was the viability of the raised gardens between the blocks - trees are shown on the plans but there will probably be a lack of soil depth in order to support tree growth.
A. Trees will be planted on all of the courtyards and we will speak to architect on these matters.
Len Hatch mentioned that the site is on a Flood plain yet BL-CQ are building on the ground.
David Myer: Regarding 24 hour access – has there been consideration of noise after hours in an open access populated environment?
A. Discussions will happen nearer the time – nothing is gated off.
Ann Smith: Is the office space still worth having, given that buildings might be left empty?
A. A lot will be used by the council
Ian Moore wanted to know names of all proposed retailers now being placed in B2.
A. AD will send through exact info.
BH thought there was a cavalier attitude to management. There is no point in having two public area strategies. There are cost issues and dealing with crime and safety has to be built in at the beginning or it is not going to work. Someone needs to think and co-ordinate these matters.
A. We have consulted with local police and Southwark Council – inclusion of these key issues has been constant since the beginning.
Danny McCarthy: There is still a lot of land on the peninsular which was never adopted by the Council and there are no funds – nobody knew what was where and who was looking after it – money must come from the development to the Council. A way has to be found to bring back the feeling of safety. We never see the police. It is a major issue; we want the community to be drawn into the area so safety is a major thing.
A. We have thought about it.
Len Hatch disagreed with AD that open space would be populated and asked how big was the park area?
A. Small
David Myer. This brings us back to my question about noise.
PA: Albatross Way; A1 is still a concern.
6. New Canada Water Library - Adrian Whittle (AW) LBS Libraries & Culture
AW’s presentation of initial feedback will also be at The Event on July 8th and Rotherhithe Festival on July 16th. In a survey of what people wanted, toilets were top of the list, followed by Cafe, pushchair/buggy park, child friendly access, disability access, opening early and late and longer in the holidays, family friendly, community and meeting rooms, chill out area. Then it was books, magazines and newspapers, computers for study and games, study facilities for homework, storytelling, book groups, music – listening and performance, access to other Council services, arts activities and exhibitions, drama, heritage and local history. Some of these were already happening such as homework groups, reading groups, advice sessions, music and drama, screenings and ICT.
Plans for new library were shown:
Ground floor “Lobby Library”, Cafe for 35 and Performance and exhibition space
Mezzanine will house main library floor which is open plan
Top floor has formal learning rooms and public access computers (100)
John Hellings: What will be future of Albion Street library?
A: no decision yet but may be used for youth facilities
Is this a more substantial provision than the present library?
A: Yes this is 2085 sq.m. – six or seven times bigger
Q: Will the community performance space be soundproof?
A: we are working with experts on this.
Derek Partridge: Expressed concern that the Pump House Trust had a heritage role and wondered whether there would be a problem in having a Heritage Centre above this library.
A. The library wouldn’t wish to replicate the work being done by the Pump House Trust.
Michelle Page-Jones: 1. What is happening to housebound reading services 2. What lessons have been learned from Peckham Library?
A: 1. This is a borough-wide service and is being relocated and expanded.
2. We will continue to consult people, deal with change and development, access issues, layouts/lighting especially maintenance
Christian Junge queried the design of the building and its glazing.
A: would put his views to the architect (Piers Gough) on Wednesday.
PN: Re opening hours – meeting rooms on top floor – is it still possible to get access?
A: Yes, the library will be staffed 24/7
AW. Access to library – pre-registration. Arrangements will be made for pre-registration as do not want thousands of people trying to register all at once.
GG: wanted to know the time scale for this library.
A: mid 2009
Danny McCarthy: Would there be security (lockers) for bags?
Steve Cornish: Would this replace the old Albany Street library?
A: Unknown as yet.
SH: Piers Gough needs to be exposed to real people.
A: Point made, he will do workshops with real people.
SH: What would be done about library being too hot, as many libraries were. Need for proper ventilation.
A. air conditioning is factored in, and we have windows that open.
SH brought up various other points: Libraries are usually too hot, they need proper ventilation – air conditioning should be factored in – also windows that open.
Regarding visits by school children – session led by librarian - could this library SSHSchools accommodate a class that could learn for themselves how to use the library and be able to move around and explore. Public toilets in library should be available for public.
A. Staff would be accessible and walking around the library.
Ann Smith: What security would there be to deal with bad kids?
Martin Cakebread wanted to know whether energy consumption has been included in the design.
Q. Marion Carson (Southwark Volunteers) asked if the Care would be run privately or by the Council?
A: This matter is still being considered.
PN put the view that the Cafe would be an ideal project for social enterprise.
There was general concern about the Walkway width.
7. Site C Conrad Phoenix/M&N Associates - Ruth and Spencer Whitworth
Presentation of visuals for Waterside View:
Residential 55,600,
community facilities 450 sq.m.,
Retail830 sq.m.
A3/A4
Residential Mix
55,600 sq.m. of residential
640 flats
35% affordable housing
Ecohomes
229 l bed 36%
323 2 bed 50%
88 units 3 bed 14%
Key amendments
Surrey Quays Road frontage
Service entrances at Surrey Quays Road and amenity space
External building treatment
Public realm
Service entrances – there is now l ramp and service entrances underground unlike confusing situation previously. Decathlon is not happy with this on grounds that none of their other stores have underground service access but SW visited their Paris store which does have underground service entrance.
External treatment of building –putting together a palette of materials to soften the buildings
View of waterfront shown with 2 paved areas for fast movement with inner quiet area for sitting.
1883 map of Surrey Docks
There will be a means of identifying wildlife and birdlife of Canada Water.
Everybody we asked has a different opinion re access to public spaces.
Main boulevard/walkway criticised as overdone but don’t agree.