European Group of Organisations for Fire Testing

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European Group of Organisations for Fire testing,

Inspection and Certification

EGOLF TC2 Fire resistance

Draft report of the EGOLF TC2 meeting held on 31 March 2009 in Gent

1 / Opening of meeting
Prof Vandevelde welcomed EGOLF delegates to the meetings in Gent.
2 / Approval of the agenda– N508rev2
This was agreed with updates to TG discussions noted.
3 / Approval of the report of the last meeting – N505
Thereport of the previous meeting held on 15 October2008 was approved.
4 / Matter arising
Test method for cavity barriers –This document had been completed, a copy sent to EOTA, and was now published as EA 09. It had also been submitted to CEN/TC127 for consideration as an EN.
Revision of TR 2 Instrumentation for fire resistance tests, N515 – This document had been prepared following discussions at the last meeting. No comments had been submitted and it was agreed for publication as EA 07.
action Secretary
5 / Work in CEN/TC127 on fire resistance test methods – N510rev1
This document was noted.
6 / Industry sectors covered by members, N516
This enquiry amongst members was mainly undertaken for the reaction to fire area, but data was also collected for fire resistance. The Chairman was not proposing any new areas should be opened for discussion by TC2 at present, but areas could be requested for future discussion if needed.
7 / Actions agreed on Helpdesk items in 2007, N511 & 2008, N512
Following discussions on this at the last meeting these document gave information on the outcome of helpdesk discussions, in the format requested by members. A new folder would be created on the website for such information and in the next update of the website it would be possible to undertake a word search on these documents to trace discussions and decisions on required topics.
Members were reminded that EGOLF Recommendations were to be followed by all members.
8 / Fire resistance round robin, N529, N530
27 labs were now participating, final details had been agreed and initial tests undertaken, with acceptable results. All the test materials had been purchased and would shortly be dispatched to participants.
It was hoped that all participants would complete, and report, their tests by the end of June so that the results could be studied and reported at the next meeting. All results were to be sent to the Secretary General who would then allocate a number and pass on the results, anonymously, to the steering group.
Details of the testing were then considered and all queries answered. Any queries during the round robin itself were to be addressed to Anders Drustrup.
9 / Revision of EN 1634-1 and consequent actions in EGOLF, N524, N523
With the revision of EN 1634-1 the Harmonisation Course was being revised. The original drafters, Ejnar Danø and Juergen Pennings had been joined by Lars Boström who would take over from Mr Danø on his retirement. The revised course material was under preparation.
N524 summarised the main changes to the EN. N523 proposed action needed on the EGOLF Recommendations addressing doors testing. Some were to be retained and some deleted. Withdrawal of these Recommendations would be indicated in the publications catalogue. Those withdrawn Recommendations would be retained on the website but with a clear watermarked ‘withdrawn’ on each page indicating their status. Unless any comments were sent to the Secretary by 31 April, the actions proposed in N523 would be undertaken.
action members, Secretary
10 / Revision of EN 81-58 Lift landing doors, N517
Document N517 was the revision of EN 81-58 prepared by the joint EGOLF / ELA Task Group. Members of TC2 were asked to check this document and submit any comments to the Secretary by the end of April. An approved document would then be submitted to CEN/TC10.
action members
The recent meeting of some experts from CEN/TC127 and CEN/TC10 in N526 was noted but it was agreed that EGOLF would concentrate on finalising the proposal in N517.
11 / Comments on EN 1366-8 Smoke extraction ducts, N518, N519
These two documents concluded all the actions from the duct and damper workshop. All relevant comments had been sent to the relevant CEN WG. The Secretary was asked to prepare draft Recommendations for approval by members.
action Secretary
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12.1
12.2
12.3 / TG discussions
The meeting then broke for detailed discussions in TGs which were reported as follows:
Note: a proposal from ZAG was not received on fire protection material (N483rev) so this topic was not discussed.
Doors, (L Bostrom)
Helpdesk 2009-01 Doors - evaluation of thermal insulation criteria, N514, N533
Depending on whether the glazing around the door is side and over panel or if it is an associated construction the thermal insulation criteria are different. If it is a side and overpanel the thermocouples on the outer frame only shall be evaluated by the 360 C criteria, i.e. thermocouples TC 18-22 in Helpdesk 2009-01.
A Recommendation was to be prepared action Secretary
Helpdesk 2009-03 Doors - discrete areas, N521
Question 1 and 2: The general line of the discussions was that also areas such as that of the photo in Helpdesk 2009-3 could be treated as a discrete area. Although, some more discussions is needed with CEN TC 127 WG 3 to define what to be treated as discrete areas. According to figure D28 in EN 1634-1 thermocouples can be placed on discrete areas > 0.2 x 0.2 m. On the other hand if the discrete area is a component of building hardware no thermocouple shall be placed within 100 mm from the centre and in this case the discrete area must be >0.4 x 0.4 m. Hence the answer is still unclear and some more thought is needed before a recommendation can be written.
Question 3: The whole test specimen is always evaluated. It is not possible to get different classification of the different areas of a test specimen. This can be written into a Recommendation.
A Recommendation was to be prepared action Secretary
Helpdesk 2009-08 door gaps, N534
EGOLF could not make a decision contrary to EN 1634-1 so gaps > 6mm could not be accepted.
Regarding question 2 in N534, the TG could not reach agreement as the method for calculation of the practical maximum allowed gap was too complicated and did not work in practice. The Chairman noted this but asked for the matter to be discussed further at the next meeting.
action TC2 TG October 2009
Helpdesk 2009-05 door gap declaration, N527
The solution proposed in N527 was accepted and a Recommendation was to be prepared. It was noted that this applied to Category A tests only and it was not thought that this could apply to category B tests, as in Helpdesk 2009-08.
action Secretary
Helpdesk 2009-06 interpretation of the scope of 1634-1 & 1364-2 for testing inspection doors, N531
No final solution had been reached in the TG, it was acknowledged that inspection doors were a difficult product to define. University of Liege experts were to prepare a further document, including possible solutions, for further discussion at the next meeting.
actionUniversity of Liege
Other Helpdesk items, (A Drustrup)
Helpdesk 2009-04 extended application of glazed construction, N522
TG: We recommend that Labs provide calculations / test evidences that the integrity and/ or insulation is maintained with thicker glass or increased area. This evidence will not be limited to stability at ambient temperature.
TC2 considered sight of the calculations used by DBI would be useful, Mr Drustrup would see if this was acceptable to their client. Further discussion was required at the next meeting.
action A Drustrup
Helpdesk 2009-02 thermocouple positions – air transfer grills. N520
TG: The air transfer grill is tested in the component as a normal feature in the test specimen with a minimum of one thermocouple on the grill.
The question was posed in TC2 as to whether EGOLF should draft a specific document for EOTA on testing air transfer grills. This item was to be raised at the next EOTA PT4 meeting by Dr Borowy.
action A Borowy
The Secretary was to establish which EGOLF labs had experience in testing air transfer grills.
action Secretary
Helpdesk 2009-07 furnace pressure conditions when testing columns, N532
TG: Take 20 Pa at the top of the exposed part to ensure positive pressure at the penetration point in the ceiling (otherwise there might be a cooling down due to fresh air penetrating into the furnace at this point).
A recommendation was to be prepared, including a figure to illustrate the solution.
action Secretary
Helpdesk 2008-11 queries on EN 1366-4, linear joint seals, N509
The TG did not fully understand Dr Rohling’s reply. Wfgent experts were to contact Dr Rohling to clarify the topic and agree what action was needed.
action wfgent
Uncertainty in volume flow measurement in ducts, N528
TG: Interesting, but we have to keep in mind that all the criteria have been defined arbitrary, and such minor impacts shall not push us to change the method (e.g. : we measure flow with devices calibrated with air : what with hot gases ?). This analyse is for information only. Short term answer: change nothing, notify CEN with our analysis for information; long term answer: observe these tests and come up with “more simple” solutions, in line with the aim of the test.
action Secretary
Helpdesk 20090-9 EN 1363-1 Determination of binder content for insulation materials, N535
TG Draft an EGOLF recommendation in accordance with the proposal in the helpdesk.
Tc2 agreed this should be considered for inclusion in the revision of EN 1363-1. As this was being completed now by Mr van den Berg, he was asked to include text based on N535. This could later be amended if any changes were agreed before publication of the ER.
action G van den Berg, Secretary
Loadbearing capacity and ad hoc EXAP, P Vandevelde
Helpdesk 2009-10 1363-1, definition of loadbearing capacity failure, N536
The problem is that the deflection of high beams reaches D=L²/400d, but not the critical deflection rate dD/dt =L²/9000d. In this way a very large deflection occurs without loss of stability.
Solution:
Add an additional criterion L/20 which in any case means end of stability.
So failure (= end of stability) occurs if :
D  L/20
or
D = L²/400d and dD/dt = L²/9000d (dD/dt measured after D  L/30)
TC2 noted this solution and Mr van den Berg would run some further checks before including this in the revision of EN 1363-1.
action G van den Berg
ad hoc EXAP, N513
This matter had been raised in both the previous TC2 meeting and in the GNB FSG. It had subsequently been discussed in the EC EGF and the FSG had been asked to progress to topic, ensuring that CEN/TC127 was informed. Under the FSG / EGOLF agreement, TC2 had been asked to consider the matter. The TG prepared a proposed procedure (N538) which was to be circulated to TC2 for comment.
action Secretary
13 / Any other business
circulation of documents for discussion in TC2 – several documents had been submitted very close to the meeting which had made it difficult for delegates to consult with colleagues beforehand. It was agreed that every effort should be made to submit document to the Secretary 2 weeks before the meeting and, at the very latest, 1 week before.
action all members
14 / Date and venue of next meeting
20-22 October in Berlin
Chairman – A Drustrup
secretary – R Boughey
Austria / IBS / apologies
MSW
Belarus / RIFS / Y Ivanov, D Zhitkevic
Belgium / ISSEP
LIEGE / E Wellens, J M Franssen, F Dumont
WFGENT / P Vandevelde, N De Klerck, P Tack,
P Poppe, B Sette
Bulgaria / RFSCPI / V Petkov, K Kanchev
Czech Rep / PAVUS / M Louma, R Hruska
Denmark / DIFT / A Drustrup
Estonia / TUV Estonia / P Suit
Finland / VTT / T Oksanen, T Ala-Outinen
France / CSTB / C Lemerle
Efectis / P Coget
LNE
Germany / BAM / S Hothan
DIBt
MPA St / apologies
MFPA LEIP / J Dahncke
MPA HANN
MPA B’WEIG / G Blume
MPA NRW / J Pennings
P HOCH
TU MUNC / E Berghofer
Hungary / EMI / M Parlagi
Israel / SII / R Gore
Italy / CSI / P Mele
DCPST / S La Mendola, L Mazziotti
I GIORD
ITC-CNR
IVALSA-CNR
LAPI / D Borsini
LSF
Latvia / FRD LAT
MeKA
Lithuania / FRC LITH / D Lipinskas
Netherlands / Efectis / G van den Berg
BDA / A Bron
Norway / SINTEF / A W Heskestad
Poland / ITB / A Borowy
Portugal / LNEC
Russia / VNIIPO / I Khasanov, V Yashin
Slovakia / FIRES / S Rastocky
Slovenia / ZAG
Spain / AFITI / A Garzón, S Lopez
AITEX
APPLUS / J Mirabent
Gaiker
Sweden / SP / U Wickstrom, L Bostrom
Switzerland / EMPA
SSI / apologies
UK / CIF / apologies
FRS / R Jones
BW / N Rowan
FM Approvals / R Zammitt
USA / FM Approvals / J Norcott
Observer
Netherlands / Peutz / S van de Wetering, J Mertens

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