Dr. Kelly Brogan:Hi, everyone. I am here with Ali. And we are going to just spend a little bit of time talking about her experience which has brought me to tears many times because I think she is one of the most inspirational women I’ve ever had the privilege of working with.
And I think that her experience and her courage in sharing it will leave an indelible mark on everyone’s consciousness who is exposed to it.
And it’s mostly because she defies so many of the myths and assumptions that are really driving the current psychiatric treatment model. And so, I just wanted to begin, Ali, by thanking you for being here and for taking this time.
So, I’d like to share with everyone. Tell us a bit about how it was that you became a psychiatric patient, what treatments did you ultimately undergo and how it was that you ultimately ended up crossing my path? You have a very unusual story.
Ali:That’s a loaded question. I started out, I think, going through my life and looking back on it now with much more clarity than I’ve ever had in my whole life, there were a lot of what I call “missed opportunities” by the healthcare system and by doctors that were treating me to really help me to heal my body.
And so, my first I think “missed opportunity’ would have been when I was in college. I was really stressed out as all of us get in college. I got very overwhelmed. I did not have any coping skills whatsoever coming from my family of origin.
So, it came to a point where in order to deal with the stress, I would not let myself go out or go to class unless I had lost a pound or was losing weight. And so that was my way to control the chaos around me.
And one weekend, it really just became a real break for me. And I basically told my parents I thought I needed to go to the hospital.
So, they drove me down to Wichita, Kansas to a treatment center there. And based on my eating—I was limiting eating, I was over-exercising and this control pattern—they said I had an eating disorder.
So, all of a sudden, I got thrown into this world of psychiatric hospitals with an eating disorder. And automatically, I remember, a new drug was out called Prozac.
They said it was going to be great. They put me on that. There was zero focus on diet even though I had an eating disorder.
I was put into therapy groups. And I was really kind of terrified because there were some really hardcore addictions going on in that center. I was there for I think 10 days maybe. I got out and was told to continue the Prozac.
That was the defining moment for me really because that labeled me as having a mental illness. And so moving forward was “I’ve been on Prozac. I had mental illness. Therefore, I must be mentally ill.”
And continuing on through my life, I went off and on the Prozac. I think it was maybe a 7- or an 8-year span before I got back on something. And it would have been around the time that my husband and I were married, going through a lot of stresses, a lot of marital issues, very stressful. I went back on Prozac because that was the go-to that supposedly worked before.
I started seeing a therapist that was really pushing me to stay on the medication. My life just continued as everybody’s does to get more and more stressful. We had more children. My husband and I were still going through some very stressful times in our marriage.
And there was a point where, again, I was placed back on the Prozac and it was “You’re mentally ill. You need to stay on this all the time.” Really, it’s been a span of, I’d say, 25 years of just this “[…] I don’t feel right.” Every day wasn’t necessarily a struggle, but there was just this underlying struggle and energy flow of just chaotic energy. It just was hard.
Things were hard for me. I always struggled. And daily, I would struggle with my mood, not being able to cope with things, not being able to get over things. That was a really big thing.
I’ve always felt like I was a really big grudge-holder. I would really just hold on to something and not be able to let it go.
Then my husband and I again moved ahead. I had a job change. He was unfaithful to me. We moved across country while I was about eight months pregnant with my son. All of a sudden, I was in a new home town and I had all these things going on in my lap.
I was seeing a doctor who had me on the Prozac. And one day, he switched me to Lexapro. There was no taper. And that was really like a life switch. It was just like, “I don’t want to be here anymore.” It made sense for me to kill myself. That’s the only way I can describe it. It wasn’t like, “Oh, woe is me! My family will probably be better off without me.” It really was “This makes more sense in all things—with my life and my family’s life—for me just not to be here.”
Dr. Kelly:With an addendum, right?
Ali:It was literally like a switch. It really was.
And so I did attempt suicide. I was put into a psychiatric treatment center. I think that was only like a 4-day or 5-day event there. They put me back on the Prozac I believe and was told to continue that.
I’m still seeing the same therapist. She’s continued to tell me “You’ve got to stay on these medications. You’ll be on them for the rest of your life, blah-blah-blah.”
And so now, I’m approaching my mid-thirties and something is not right. I know something is not right.
I’m gaining weight. I just don’t feel good. My mental status is through the roof. I cannot cope with anything. I cannot get past my husband’s infidelity. That time, I really started seeking more just what’s wrong with me.
When you talk about somebody relentlessly looking for a doctor and something to fix me, that was me. I was doing tons of googling trying to figure out what could be wrong. Is it hormones?
I knew at that time that I had polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), so I was seeking doctors to help me with medications on that. I was put on metformin, spironolactone, all types of medications for that disorder.
And then I’d say, my early 40’s, that’s when I kind of really started to fall apart. Before then, I had been “functional” in this world, whatever that means. But that’s when I really started the decline.
I actually ended up getting a really bad infection on my face in June 2014 that was there for a long time. It was there for about a month. The doctor misdiagnosed it. And basically, it really just developed into this huge kind of ulcer cellulitis that basically ate a really bad hole into my face.
Now, I see it was the beginning of my healing. But in my mind, I couldn't cope with having this thing on my face. I couldn't cope with it.
I literally fell apart. The doctors tried to put me back on Prozac. I couldn't deal with it. I became very jittery on it.
And really, this is where my memory starts to really fail me. It was basically two years of complete hell on earth where I was trying to get over what happened to me. Still, for 15 years, my husband, his infidelity, I’m carrying that baggage with me, not being able to cope, not functioning with my children.
At that point, I know I had gotten some Xanax from my mom. I still had some prescriptions for myself too. I was using those just to get by.
And it was in June of 2014 that I got the infection. And then, coming into 2015, I’m still taking the Xanax. I’m not coping at all. I’m basically existing at that point. I’m doing a lot of lying in bed, crying all day long, not getting up, not being able to leave the house at all, just basically a non-functional person. I was not suicidal though. I was not suicidal. I just couldn't cope with anything.
I’d say it was in August of just last year, I was really just trying to exist again. I’m trying to get back. I went there. I just ran out of the Xanax prescription I had. I just thought, “It’s probably good that I’m not on that. It’s not a big deal.”
That was a Friday night. Saturday morning, I am not a big drinker at all, but Saturday morning, my body was so on fire that I found myself in the kitchen at like 10:30 in the morning on a Saturday morning pouring myself a glass of wine because somehow I knew that I could not get my body to calm down, my brain to calm down.
I can’t explain the feeling of this. It was like being on top of a rollercoaster at that top level where you have such a heightened fear, but it was just constant. It just would not calm down.
So, obviously, I was trying to self-medicate with the wine to get it down, which I knew was really strange at that point.
I had friends come over, my doctor even came over. I was screaming. It was like somebody had died. I was crying out of my skin. And that began like a week-long of basically coming off of the Xanax, not really knowing that’s what it was.
We’re all like, “What’s wrong with her?” I’m saying, “What’s wrong with me.” At that point, I started hallucinating, heart palpitations, diarrhea, involuntary muscle movements. I was hearing voices. I was definitely seeing things, seeing people in my room that weren’t there, some days that I’m blocking out.
And I’m not taking any medications at this point. I’m on nothing.
It was a 7-day period where I went off the Xanax. So, in the seven days, I slept a total of four hours. At that point (it was a week later), we all decided, I decided I need to get some sleep. So let’s go to the hospital and at least they can give me something to help me sleep.
So that’s what we did. I checked into the hospital. Right when I got into the emergency room, they were basically saying, “How much Xanax were you on?” I told them, “one milligram.” It was really a very small amount. They’re like, “That’s too small.” There’s no way it is not Xanax withdrawal. So I was there thinking, “Okay, it must not be.”
And so, I check into the psychiatric hospital. The doctor sees me the following Monday and basically asking me questions. I’m definitely paraphrasing, but he’s like, “Do you enjoy it fast? Do you enjoy rollercoasters? Do you like extreme sports?” “Yes, yes, yes.” And then, at the end, he’s like, “You have bipolar. This is bipolar disorder.”
Of course, I’m like, “Great! At that time.”
I really felt like I believed him because I had been through such hell, and so now I know it’s going to get better. It was like, “I had a label. This is fine. You can give me a medication for it. This is great!”
And I will add that one way they wanted to help me at that point was to give me more Xanax to, I guess, back taper, do something. I was like absolutely not because I literally went through hell. I was like, “I will not ever go through that again. I don’t want the Xanax.”
I think I had four or five drugs I was on at that time. That was in August of last year.
For people in their 40’s, back pedaling a little bit (actually, I got out of the hospital in August), we started to notice that my really, really bad times would coincide with my period. And so we reached out to my psychiatrist and said, “Hey, I’m getting extremely suicidal—even on the medication, I’m extremely suicidal—around my period.”
My husband, it was like a switch. And then, the ranges would vary. But some days, it would be two days before my period would come. And then, I would get really—it’s like immediately when I got my period. But it started to fluctuate where it would be maybe three days into my period, I would get some relief. But it was always somewhere around my period.
And so we started telling the doctor that. He was like, “Well, yeah, there definitely could be some hormonal component to it.” Never once did he do a blood draw. Never once did he do a hormone panel on me. He just basically said I needed to stay on the medication he had me on. It was just I had premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
So coming into January of this year, I had surgery on my face. I felt a little bit better. But still, every day, it was a struggle. I will tell you that if there’s anybody out there, it would be like my brain was on fire. That’s really what it felt like.
And it would be from the times that I would pass out from sheer exhaustion, I would be up at 3 or 4 in the morning, not able to sleep. Obviously, I was no fun for anybody in my family. But then, my brain would be on the second my eyes would open. It would literally just automatically—
I would think, “There’s no way someone’s brain can function at this high of a level before I strike out or I just black out or I pass out. My brain can’t do this for very much longer.”
So, I’m seeing a therapist here in Kansas City, a holistic practitioner that a holistic psychiatrist referred me to. My psychiatrist was a regular, conventional psychiatrist. I had found a holistic one though, and she referred me to this lady that I started seeing her I think in March. I would just go sit in her office and cry basically.
I would tell her that “I wanted to kill myself. I couldn't do it anymore. Too much had happened to me in my life. I couldn't do it.” And again, it’s where it just kind of made sense for me to just kill myself.
And I’d say that started ramping up probably February of this year, and it came to just a full peak in May basically right before I got into your office.
So, through God’s grace and a higher being, definitely, I made it to this practitioner. And she started talking to me about how she thought it was diet related.
She started talking to me about Kelly Brogan, there’s a doctor in New York that has a book on Amazon. “You need to see her. I really feel like this is going to be your best bet.”
We’re like, “This is crazy! I’m not going all the way to New York.”
My husband, at that time, honestly, had been on the phone with our insurance company trying to find a long-term care facility for me because I wasn’t safe, I attempted suicide again in April of this year. And that was in the hospital actually.
My period came one day, and again, it was this heavy, heavy suicidal feelings. I told my sister, my husband and my brother-in-law I needed to go to the hospital. So we did check in there. I was there for 10 days (it was a long time).
And the doctor there, I will give him credit, he at least did recognize the pre-menstrual disorder component. He said that’s very powerful because, one day, I was talking to him and I was wreck, screaming, crying on the floor, crying around. And then, three days after my period came, I walked in and said, “It’s nice to meet you.”
He goes, “Wow!” It’s just this change that was crazy. It was evident to him that there was definitely a hormonal component to it.
So, we came out of that hospital. That was in April. I go back to my therapist in Kansas City. She’s like, “You’ve got to get to Dr. Brogan.”
And so I made a call to your assistant, Leela. She really whittled me out. I really don’t know. It was pretty intense to even get in. It was very easy to get in with you, but there’s a lot of screening. And I understand why.
But it was like, “I don’t even know how I got through all that.” Honestly, again there was a higher power at work through that. I wasn’t able to form words. I don’t even know how I was driving around honestly. I was so bad.
But a week before we were to come to you, I started feeling very bad again. And the therapist here was like, “You’ve got to go. You can’t cancel this. You’ve got to get to her on time. I have a feeling this is going to work.”
So, the weekend before we went to you was my son’s graduation from West Point, a military academy. It was a really big deal to our family. I spent most of that weekend in the car crying, not able to get out of the car. My husband could not get me out of the car. That’s how bad I was.
So Tuesday, we walked into your office. This is where I get all emotional. And you were the first doctor in my entire life that gave me hope. Instead of labeling, you told me, “You know, you’re not bipolar. You don’t have mental illness, Ali.”
My whole life, I felt like such a weirdo, like something was wrong with me. I was a flawed individual. All these doctors have told me, “You have mental illness. And you always will, Ali. And you’ll just have to live with it for the rest of your life. You need to take your medication.”
You were the first one. My husband and I just said, “No… uh-uh.” You said, “No, it’s your diet. A big component of this is going to be your diet. And I really feel like a lot of the medications that you’re on are causing a lot of these symptoms for you.”
We were desperate. And thank God for my husband. I have such an incredible husband because at that time, I was just going with what he wanted to do. He looked at you, and he was like, “My gosh! This is like an angel. This is like a second angel from heaven telling us this.”