Briefing on Developments in the Great Lakes Region
Senator Russell D. Feingold
U.S. Special Envoy to the Great Lakes Region
U.S. Embassy PretoriaAfrica Regional Media Hub
Media Roundtable
Tuesday, November 5, 2013
MEDIA:Maybe you could just fill us in on what the next steps are going to be after this summit last night for negotiations between the army and the rebels and how what happened last night is communicated to the rest of the parties.
SENATOR FEINGOLD: Well, there’s two different aspects to the question of negotiations and further process. One of course is the immediate goal of concluding the Kampala talks and then the second is the need that clearly was understood by the people at the Summit for about a broader dialogue, a political process that would address the broader issues that go well beyond the M23. So I’m happy to talk about either one but those are two distinct things that have to be dealt with as we go forward.
MEDIA:Can you give me a little background looking at this military offensive that the army launched in the last couple of weeks, what did that do to sort of push the negotiations forward, or how has that changed the dynamic?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: Before the military offensive an agreement was very close. There had already been two intensive rounds of negotiations as part of the Kampala talks which were created and led by President Museveni and eight of the eleven provisions or titles that had to be resolved were already initialled before the fighting. When the fighting occurred another round was initiated during the past few days, the past weekend and during that weekend they were able to resolve the remaining issues in terms of the substance so there was really no specific or substantive issue between the parties. What was important was the need for a sequence of things to occur to get to the point where this agreement could actually be finalised. First and foremost the M23 has to renounce the rebellion. After all, that’s the only reason there were Kampala talks. I don’t think President Museveni in his wisdom of creating the talks thought that the rebellion would continue as a result of the talks, so clearly that’s step one. That needs to happen, it needs to happen now, it should have happened Sunday. If it had happened Sunday perhaps this complete military activity would not have occurred, I don’t know. All I know is that was to be the first step, it needs to happen now. Then it’s incumbent on the Democratic Republic of Congo to make it clear that have concluded their military activity against the M23 so that the arrangements that have been worked out for disarmament, demobilisation, reintegration for those, reintegration into society of those who are properly reintegrated can occur. Making clear that there are those who cannot be given amnesty of any kind and those are people who have been guilty of serious crimes. The international community can’t accept that, the United States can’t accept that. Most importantly that is a red line for the Democratic Republic of Congo and we support them in this regard and I believe the agreement will reflect that,but none of this can happen until the sequence of events occur. These events should occur in the next few days.
MEDIA: [Unclear] Sir, one of the big issues, you said eight out of the eleven issues that were initialled at the time – one of the big ones was the amnesty provision in a sense that certain leaders felt that they deserved amnesty out of the deal and the government was not willing to go ahead. How do you then prevent these people from continuing the fight from the bush in some sort of guerrilla war if they are not given amnesty? What’s to bring them to the table and actually make them conclude this once and for all?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: I was personally a witness to the effective resolution of the amnesty provisions. Frankly even though three provisions hadn’t been initialled, that was effectively taken care of through very tough negotiations where the Democratic Republic ofCongo, I thought, was reasonable. The result of this will be that there would be amnesty for individuals who are only guilty of having participated in the rebellion. So when you talk about the top leaders who may have been guilty of serious crimes they are not given amnesty but their troops will be given the ability to renounce rebellion and I think that can be a very effective approach while the accountability is pursued. We would hope that the Democratic Republic of Congo would be very strong in pursuing accountability and justice for those who’ve committed serious crimes. So I don’t think it would be terribly easy for the M23 to reconstitute after their rank and file have been given appropriate amnesty for rebellion only, not for serious crimes.
MEDIA:What are the reasons for the fact that they are still fighting. This agreement was reached on Sunday morning but fighting continued yesterday?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: A situation like this involves of course a little bit of mutual distrust. One party has to go first, take the first step. I don’t think that there’s any question that it’s appropriate that the rebellion be renounced immediately. Of course the M23 wants to know if the Democratic of Congo will follow suit and also stop military activity. So I believe that the efforts of the Kampala facilitator with the strong leadership of President Museveni as well as the personal involvement of the special envoys over the course of three different periods of time have given a sense of confidence for the M23 that we are not going to witness some kind of an agreement and stand away. We will be watching every minute to make sure that each piece of this is followed. That MONUSCO and the intervention bridge and the people involved in the disarmament deal with the demobilisation do what they’re supposed to do, and that all of the parties involved follow through on the agreement. We’re not just going to allow people who’ve made this agreement to have to fend for themselves.
MEDIA:In the past, let’s say if you take the example of 2008 of Laurent Nkunda – that battle was won. And then in 2012 sort of M23 was then formed. What’s to prevent that from happening again? What’s to prevent this cycle of, you know, groups taking on different names but basically fighting a similar cause and in similar direction?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: There are two differences with regard to the Kampala talks from what happened in 2009 and then the broader issue of the international commitment and the African commitment to broader discussions and dialogue to solve the problem. One difference is there is going to be no amnesty whatsoever for serious crimes. That is a problem that has occurred in the past. The second is, military reintegration to the extent that it occurs at all will not be allowed the way it was done in 2009. The whole units and organisations were reintegrated in the same part of the country. The only kind of reintegration that I think makes sense and I believe the Democratic Republic of Congo agrees with is individuals who are appropriate can be reintegrated in the Congolese army on a case by case basis but they have no right to stay in one part of the country. They are part of the military like any legitimate military would require. So those are two very significant differences that I believe would be an outcome of this. Now more importantly, this is not going to be able to be the same story again because the African nations under the framework and the international community are committed to staying involved in this. This isn’t some kind of a process of a secret agreement where nobody knows what was decided that comes out later and nobody can enforce. This is an internationally monitored, African-led effort that will lead I believe, to political dialogue where the root causes of this problem are considered. Remember that M23, as problematic as it has been, is only one of dozens of armed groups that are operating in that part of the country. There can be no external support for such armed groups and there must be a credible Congolese government that reforms itself democratically and ensures reforms in the military so that it won’t happen again. This is easily one of the toughest problems in the world. But there has never been this sort of sustained attention to the problem. If we can sustain the attention, what I see is more and more countries appointing special envoys and wanting to be involved. What I’m seeing is all the different African leaders here at the summit - it was an impressive show from all across the major regions of Africa about this topic. So I know people have been disappointed and even crushed in the past by the failures in the past to solve this but I think we’re all giving it our best shot.
MEDIA:Can you tell us a little bit about Rwanda?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: Sure, what do you want to know?
MEDIA: What can you tell us? Have they stopped backing M23, and did you put pressure on them to do so?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: The United States has consistently asked all countries who signed the framework agreement to live up to their agreement and that agreement is clear, and that is to give no support whatsoever to any illegal armed groups which of course M23 is one of those groups. We have in every opportunity we’ve had, made it clear to Rwanda that any support for the M23 is against that agreement. We have seen in the past a credible body of reporting that that sort of support has been given. Now whether or not that sort of support was given in the last few days, we don’t know. It’s my hope that it has not been but we don’t know. We will at any time that we see that sort of reporting indicate that we are strongly opposed to it, the United States is strongly opposed to it and so is the international community. On the other hand if it becomes clear that the support has stopped it would be appropriate to say so as well but that will depend on what we find out.
MEDIA:We’ve got a lot of eyes on the ground though in this area, why don’t you know if Rwanda is backing the rebels right now or not?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: This is happening so quickly that it would be irresponsible of me to not make sure that I have a chance to see what reports are available. It is a very active military situation and I just honestly have not had the opportunity, I don’t know if anybody has had the opportunity to really know exactly whether external support is being given to the M23 at this time or not. It’s just an unknown. I think we will know in the not too distant future but we’re just not there yet.
MEDIA: [Unclear] ....Rwanda has always said that the reason why they’re, well it has always been clear the reason why Rwanda is kind of supporting various groups in the Eastern DRC is they have a fight against the [unclear] militias that are running around there. Is there any step now to take against the other militia groups – you yourself mention there’s a dozen of other militias? Is this going to end with M23 or will there be political movements against other militias?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: It will be a failure of the international community and MONUSCO if it only ends up going after the M23. And I know, having worked hand in hand, face to face with Martin Kobler, the United Nations Special Representative that that’s not his plan. In fact, my understanding in New York at the ministerial meeting in July, I had specific conversations about this, was the hope was to first work for the FDLR. Now that was prevented by the actions of the M23 in August. It was necessary given the active situation for the focus to be on the M23 but it has never been the intention of MONUSCO and its intervention brigade to focus only on the M23. No-one should think that would be an appropriate use of the intervention brigade in any event. So there are at least two groups that need very strong attention in the not too distant future. First the FDLR in part because of its background and because of its continuing activities but also because Rwanda has a right to say if the intervention brigade is true to its purpose, then it will pursue under MONUSCO, of which it is part, the FDLR. It is also fair to say that the ADF is a disturbing organisation that has certainly announced its intentions vis-a-vis Uganda as an illegal armed group. It needs to be disarmed as well. So I believe that you will see this happening. These operations are not simple and what’s going on right now working between the FARDC and MONUSCO is a very serious operation so these things require planning but I for one, as Special Envoy to the Great Lakes, representing the United States will be pressing MONUSCO to do this with regard to the FDLR at the first reasonable moment.
MEDIA: You said that the M23 should stop its fighting in the next couple of days. Do you think that Rwanda is encouraging them to take that step or…
SENATOR FEINGOLD: I can’t speak for Rwanda but the point here is not simply that the M23 stop fighting, they actually offered a ceasefire on Sunday. That isn’t what’s needed, they need to renounce the rebellion and I have never heard a statement from the Rwandan government that is contrary to the desire to have them renounce the rebellion. That is the official position of Rwanda. That is what they committed to in the framework agreement and I actually take them at their word, that they support the renouncing of the rebellion by the M23.
MEDIA:If you set some sort of precedent here in terms of the sort of systems that are in place to start tackling these armed groups, what, as you move on to the other groups, what are the weakest parts of that chain? Is it corruption and the Congolese army slipping back into its old ways? What do you think?
SENATOR FEINGOLD:Well there are a lot of problems with this because when you’re dealing with dozens of groups like this they’re not all the same. The M23 is a more conventional military force, others are more guerrilla-type forces if you will, others are more sort of local. So taking conventional military action as was done by the FARDC and MONUSCO through the intervention brigade against M23 is one kind of an undertaking, going after a group like the FDLR perhaps in different locations. Other groups are able to sort of just melt back into the villages and communities. So each group has to be approached in a different way. The hope of course is if you can eliminate these larger groups then other groups will see the handwriting on the wall, that it will be easier over time for the Congolese military and Congolese government to simply assert authority as they regain ground, assert governmental authority over regions. People see the benefit of peace that it will have in effect a good domino effect. But I think it’s a mistake to think that each action against an armed group will be the same. It will have to be tailored and I know that Mr Kobler and the force commander are frankly an excellent combination of people who are very sensitive to this.
MEDIA:Are South African troops making a big difference?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: The contribution of the various countries that have assisted in the intervention brigade is tremendous. It is a very significant thing for another country and in some cases people have paid the ultimate sacrifice so the United States and the international community express our gratitude to the nations that have contributed to the intervention brigade.
MEDIA:Can I ask you the role, I understand the role of the FIB was to go in behind the…that they weren’t in the front line, that were holding positions that were taken by the Congo army, is that correct?
SENATOR FEINGOLD: The intervention brigade has a mandate that allows them to function under the MONUSCO military in different ways. They can function in co-ordination in military activity as was done in August with the FARDC. They can play a more background role as they did during parts of this recent operation and focus on civilian protection but they can also act on their own in terms of certain offensive operations to disarm and demobilise certain armed groups. So they have some flexibility in terms of it. But they are not an offensive military organisation. Their job is not to conduct the war. Their job is to use what force they are allowed to use in order to disarm and demobilise groups. But they are not a conventional military force that’s supposed to simply take ground and push groups over a border. They’re supposed to disarm and demobilise.