Southwark Safer Neighbourhood Board (SSNB) Meeting
Tuesday 2nd June 2015, 6pm – 8pm
Beormund Community Centre
Minutes
Attendees
Elena Noel / Co-Chair/Southwark Hate Crime NetworkChief Superintendent Zander Gibson / Borough Commander, Southwark Police
Inspector Jenny Donaldson / Inspector Southwark Police
Abby Taubin / Neighbourhood Watch Chair
Colin Hartridge-Price / North East Ward Panel Cluster
Lee Bartlett / SSNB Member
Ella Matheson / Peace in the City
Councillor Kath Whittam / Rotherhithe Ward
Rob Harper / Community Safety Southwark Council
Charles Stewart / Surrey Docks Ward
Althea Smith / CIRAG
Roda Mbonde / Community Action Southwark (Minutes)
KiriPieri / B.T.A
Sheila Taylor / Cherry Gardens TRA
Amy Aeron-Thomas / RoadPeace
Councillor Damian O’Brien / Grange Ward
Rev. Emmanuel Oyewole / Southwark Resident
Runa Uddin / Victim Support
M. Choudhury / User Voice
Ian McInnes / Chair Dulwich Society
James Hatts / SE1 Website
Robin Crookshank Hilton / Chair Dulwich Ward Panel Chair
Joanne Tattersfield / Practice Group lead, Southwark Youth Offending Service
Q.S. / User Voice
Tamera / User Voice
Clare Armstrong / Southwark Living Streets
Councillor David Noakes / Cathedrals Ward
Pat Hickson / Bonamy/Bramcote TRA
Gloria Brown / Southwark Council
Darret Tomlin / Southwark Resident
SteveBarbe / Peckham/Nunhead
Charity Iyamu / Southwark Resident
Margerite Weedy / Village Ward SNP
Winfred Annor / YOS
Cllr Catherine Dale / South Bermondsey
Steve Smithson / Chaucer Ward Panel
Simone Powderly / Victim Support
Apologies
Louise Doherty / Southwark Youth ServiceAvril Jones / Co-Chair SSNB
Sarah Richardson / MOPAC
Cllr Sandra Rhule / Nunhead Ward
Cllr Anood Al-Samerai / Riverside Ward
Cllr Michael Situ / Cabinet Member for Community Safety
Simon Taylor / Chair Village SN Panel
Cllr Stephanie Cryan, / Cabinet Member for Adult Care and Financial Inclusion
Cllr Peter John / Leader of the Council
Mrs GertrudeNeville / Southwark Resident
Jeff Barnett / Chair S.N.T Newington Ward
Stephen Bourne / Vice Chair Stop and Search
Eileen Conn / Peckham Vision, Southwark Multi-Faith Forum
Dave Walker / Southwark Mediation Centre
- Welcome and Apologies
Elena warmly welcomed all attendees especially the young people present, Board members present including the Borough Commander, Chief Superintendent Zander Gibson of Southwark Police, and Inspector Jenny Donaldson. She read out apologies from her Co-Chair Avril Jones and others.
- Minutes of Last meeting/matters arising
Elena touched on some action points from the last meeting.
- On information requested about crime trends (page 5) she said Sarah Richardson confirmed that the MOPAC dashboards do provide a wealth of information about different crime types. Also, MOPAC are working in partnership with GLA to producea London Landscape data visualisation tool that will be easily accessible online, to be published later on this year that will provide long term trend data on demographics, crime levels and a wealth of other data broken down to ward level.
- Robin said that herself and the Borough Commander have sorted the misunderstanding in the last minutes quoted on page 6. She said that her understanding from their conversation with MOPAC was that the Police annex in Dulwich Library would be a community safety annex and that the Police were allowed to use it.
Charles pointed that mentioning a particular segment of the community for their nuisance as in page 5 and 6about rubbish bins is unfair as there are many communities across Southwark. Elena clarified that the community has not been confirmed but the information was sent from the Secretary of North Peckham and Commercial way North TRA.
- Policing and crime performance report (MOPAC data pack)/ Questions
Mr Gibson talked about Stop and Search and went on to answer questions. He said Stop and Search is very close to his heart in relation to how the Police have done it here in Southwark. He continued that 14 months ago Southwark had the largest number of Stop and Search interactions in all of London. This alarmed him because they were not arresting as many people as they should do from this exercise. He did not feel that he had the mandate from the community to do that. They took a lot of time looking at it and all his officers were questioned in relation to their performance in Stop and Search. They stopped routine stops and focused on more intelligence led approach to ensure they were stopping and searching the right people. And there was previously a higher proportion of drug searches and less of weapons.
They worked hard and this exercise helped reduce Stop and Search by over a third in Southwark. The arrest rate has increased significantly and Southwark are now higher than the Met Police average. They have increased their weapon searches as well as some of their neighbourhood crime searches. He is now looking forward to the time when his officers will be able to use body videos to capture their interaction with people.
He further said that not all will agree with what has been done because there has been a knock-on effect of that; for instance knife crime has gone up over that time. However, arrests in Stop and Search are better now than they were before, they need to keep a focus on that but he wants Stop and Search to be more intelligence led. Stop and Search will continue in high crime areas in the borough, but will also happen in other areas as required.
He acknowledged that they don’t always get it right and he and his officers are looking forward to body cameras that will record stop and search interactions. He personally thinks they have come a long way in the last 11 months
3.1 Questions
Some questions were emailed and others asked on the day
1)Winfred asked why Stop and Search results in violence?
Mr Gibson started by appreciating the young people present for coming along to the meeting because young people don’t always get the chance to have access to him.
He continued that all officers know what they should be doing and there is no excuse for Stop and Search interactions to be unprofessional and disrespectful. He said the police don’t always get it right and can sometimes misinterpret responses and they need to work on that. This is why he’s looking forward to the body-worn videos cameras because they will have an audit trail. He added that quite often it’s not always clear in the first interaction why the Police do Stop and Search. For instance it could be as a result of direct intelligence about someone who regularly carries a weapon.
2)Tamera – User Voice, asked why police officers treat suspects like animals. There was a similar question about what the Borough Commander is doing as to the illegal practices by Police Officer?
Mr Gibson went back to the point that officers need to be respectful and responsible, that the police are the ones wearing the uniform thereby need to act professional. He further said that if someone is arrested and is at the back of the van they can now try the CCTV on the Police van. As soon as a suspect leaves the Police van they are in the custody scene. By the end of the year they will have true distinctive features where every single interaction will be recorded on one of their systems. He added that he and his officers want this to happen as soon as possible.
3)Tamera also asked why suspects are kept in a cage in the police van.
Mr Gibson explained that it is to take away confrontation because sometimes people get violent, some throw up, etc. The cage is a safe place where suspects can’t harm themselves or anyone else and the officer can observe from the other side of the cage without either person coming in contact with the other. He added that CCTV exits in vans, everything is recorded in every cage in the police van, inside and outside and that is why they no longer do strip searching which stopped two months ago.
4)Southwark Youth Council asked how Community Police Officer’ are allocated as they don’t seem to be visible on estates where there are still a high number of phone robberies, where young people are the perpetrators and the victims?
The Borough commander said he is aware of the issue and he totally understands it and explained that every ward has a dedicated PC and that Southwark Neighbourhood Team covers some areas more often. 10 out of their wards have an extra dedicated PC. He said he cannot say whether they have the same level to the ward as there no longer appointment cars, he also said that as at this week they no longer have SNT PCs to investigate actual bodily harm. Also that as of yesterday they freed up a significant number of neighbourhood cops. Those cops are not dedicated to a ward, but to a cluster.
5)Considering the stigmatisation of being seen as “informer, snitch, grass etc." How do the Police ensure that young people who report crimes are protected by the police?
The Borough Commander said it is worrying that so few people want to tell the Police what happened. A lot of 14, 15 and 16 years old get stabbed or assaulted, their friends are the ones to tell the Police what happened.
As far as reporting crime is concerned, if it’s a serious crime the police can involve the assistance of a Family Liaison Officer, they offer great confidentiality to people who report crime. There is also Crime Stoppers. He said if someone witnesses something and reports it, they might be the only person that would secure conviction for the victim. He also said that at some point the victim will be asked if they are prepared to make a statement and go to court because criminals cannot be convicted except when people are willing to give statements. The Borough Commander said he was open to suggestions and if anyone can tell a better way of doing things he would support it.
Elena asked about Safe House Protocol where in certain cases families can be relocated. Mr Gibson responded that this happens only for very high risk cases
Joanne from Young Offending Services told everyone what their organisation does and asked
6)How young people can be made to feel safer in Southwark because some of their users say that young people carry weapons for self-defence.
Mr Gibson responded that carrying a weapon to protect oneself is not an excuse the in law. There are different things going on in the borough for young people, but the Police cannot do this on their own. They need people to tell them what is going on. He said the best drugs and firearms team is in London and they are busy investigating and arresting people as well and carrying out search warrants. They have achieved massive success in the past years. They will continue to respond quickly and disrupt criminals.
7)How accurate are the body-worn cameras and what happens if the officers don’t use them.
Mr Gibson said it has crossed his mind because when something happens and sometimes the cameras are not working then people would say they have been set up. He said if an officer fails to use it for the first time they can be advised, the second time it will be more clear what is acceptable and if they fail to turn it on a third, there is no acceptable excuse. He added that the feedback he’s getting from his officers is that they are looking forward to the cameras.
8)Abby asked if some of the young people at the present could tell why young people are not ‘snitching’.
There was no immediate answer but Mr Gibson said he knows why. It was suggested that Joanne from Young Offenders Service take this back to her young people and feedback at the next board meeting. She agreed.
Action: young people/Joanne, YOS to bring back information on why young people are not reporting crime ‘snitching’ – at the next board meeting on 1st September 2015.
Mr Gibson offered to the young people present that he would be happy to sit down with a group of young people to answer any questions they have. However, he warned that his answers may not be what they expect or want to hear.
9)Cllr Noakes asked that with the Government being re-elected, there will be certain cuts, and there are rumours about Borough mergers and shared Borough Command. Can the Borough Commander reassure the people of Southwark about how Southwark Police would respond to the cuts that have to be made and how it would minimises impact on policing in Southwark.
Mr Gibson’s response was that the police have taken a sixth off their budget already since the Olympics through police buildings and police staffing costs. In 2016 they have to save another £800m which may take a third of their budget. This amount can’t be saved through closure of further police stations nor can they make these savings with the same number of Police Officers; other alternatives have to be explored. They have to cut back on wastage, they only send about 1% of their officers to respond to issues in other boroughs and they will need to be smarter. He further explained that they are looking at centralising some of their functions, but will keep neighbourhood to the heart of what they are trying to achieve.
10)Cllr Noakes also asked if there is be consultation around this.
Mr Gibson said he does not know, that timescales are very tight and he doesn’t think they have the luxury of a consultation.
11)Robin asked what the community can do to help the police.
Mr Gibson answered that they just need to make their voice heard through the right channels like the Councillors. He informed all that Neil Coyle MP had a talk about this just the previous day and they are still working through the plan.
Elena read out questions from Amy (Road Peace) asking
12)What are Southwark Police doing to make the road safer especially for vulnerable people, who are walking and cycling and a similar question from Jo who cycles to work in Southwark about what the Police are doing to improve safety for cyclists referencing the fatal incident that took place on the 28th May 2015 in Camberwell Green.
Mr Gibson said it was an incredibly sad and tragic scenario and mentioned that there have been 7 deaths in roads in Southwark in the first five months of this year which is utterly awful. It was seven in the whole of last year. What that has done is brought a lot of support resources from central London road safety unit to Southwark. Southwark is seen as an area that needs a lot of support, it’s got the Road Traffic Team supporting them full time at the moment. They have some road safety hotspots in busy junctions, they stop road users and point safety issues, speak to cyclists and people who are driving on the boxes that shouldn’t be. They recently had a programme ‘exchange places’ sponsored by someone from north of the borough where 33 cyclists were taken around the borough and showed them pictures of places to avoid. He highlighted that Southwark is getting a lot of support and are very high on the Mayor’s agenda and the Police are taking this seriously. He added that without pre-empting ongoing investigations, it seems that accidents are more due to a lack of awareness than speed.
Abby informed all that there is going to be a demonstration in the corner of Camberwell Green because of increase in cyclist deaths. She agreed that there is an awareness issue but cyclists are getting the blame although in her view the drivers have more power of control than the cyclists. She continued that this is more a road policing issue and there has to be more emphasis on the issue. It’s not just cyclists who are killed; lots of children are killed too. Some who have been knocked down are now disabled and in wheel chairs.
Mr Gibson said it is by no means to be blamed on cyclists and the police are very quick to arrest motorists. He highlighted that awareness on both sides is very crucial.
13)Cllr Cryan asked: Whilst it is encouraging to see a reduction in the majority of the MOPAC 7 recorded crime data it is very worrying to see an increase across all areas of violent crime and hate crime. Can you please provide an in depth response as to why there is such a marked increase and also as to what is being done to ensure that this increase does not continue. Can you also provide details of what measures are being put in place to address the causes of the increase and what reassurance is being given to the public that sufficient resources are being allocated to prevent violent crime escalating whilst ensuring this does not impact on the work being undertaken to reduce the recorded crime figures for the MOPAC 7 recorded crime data