April 14, 2009
The Board of Commissioners of Lorain County, Ohio met this day in a regular meeting, in the J. Grant Keys Administration Building,
226 Middle Avenue, Elyria, Ohio, at 9:35 a.m. with the following members present: Commissioner Lori Kokoski, President, Commissioner Ted
Kalo, Vice-President and Theresa L. Upton, Clerk. Commissioner Betty Blair Member, absent
JOURNAL ENTRY
Commissioners said the Pledge of Allegiance.
The following business was transacted ______
a.1 PUBLIC HEARING
ROTH DITCH, LATERAL #1, COLUMBIA TOWNSHIP
Clerk Upton said today was the continued final hearing on the Petition request to of property owners to clean approximately 300
feet of existing ditch beyond outlet of tile.
This petition was filed on March 28, 2008 in accordance w/Section 6131.07 of the Ohio Revised Code
The hearing was held on November 20, 2008 were many residents voiced their concerns in favor and objection to the project.
The County Engineer reviewed alternates and the cost would be around $34,200
February 10, 2009 Board adopted Resolution No. 09-90 finding for the improvement
March 5, 2009 Board adopted Resolution No. 09-153 amendment to finding for improvements to fix March 12, 2009 be date for filing of the engineer’s maps, profiles, schedules and reports
March 11, 2009 Engineer submitted the maps, cost estimates and preliminary assessment for the project
March 12, 2009 Board adopted Resolution No. 09-169 receiving and filing of maps, profiles, schedules and repot by County engineer and notify resident of their tentative assessments and schedule public hearing on March 24 at 9:30 a.m.
March 19, 2009 Board adopted Resolution No. 09-191, amending Resolution No. 09-169 receiving and filing of maps, profiles, schedules and repot by County Engineer. Said amendment reflected, public hearing will be scheduled on April 14 at 9:30 a.m. and residents are to be notified.
March 24, 2009 County Engineer notified ODNR & Soil & Water that this petition was filed and project would be put out for bids and successful contractor would be required to prepare an "Erosion and Sediment Control” plan in accordance with county approved requirement. The Contractor will be required to obtain a permit form Soil & Water to ensure compliance with regulations. They were to review and file report indicating approval and/or recommendation within 30 days from receipt of letter.
March 27, 2009 residents were notified by certified mail of assessments and claims for compensation and damages must be filed with Clerk on or before hearing of April 14. owner must give written notice within 21 days after hearing of intention to pay in cash or placed on tax duplicate
April 1, 2009 legal notice of hearing was place din Morning Journal
April 1, 2009 Soil & Water Conservation District reviewed and approved survey and improvement plans of Roth Ditch. Once bids for project are awarded, the contractor is required to submit an Erosion and Sediment control Plan and apply for a permit at their office per Section 3 – Regulated Activities of the E.S.C. Rules for Lorain County and copy can be found at website www.lorainswcd.com
April 7, 2009 Norman & Caroline Kvetensky, 10955 Mitchell Rd., gave intention to pay in cash
April 10, 2009 Albert A. Bihari, 10853 Mitchell Rd., gave intention to pay in cash
The following written objections were received;
April 10, 2009 Phyllis Dempsey, 33600 Cooley Rd.
1) Ditch is unnecessary as to me as I do not have a flooding problem on my property
2) Since I have no standing water problem in my yard, the assessment to be levied against me is not according the benefits, as I will be getting no benefit from the project
3) I do not believe the improvement is necessary
4) I am not being compensated for loss of the use of my property
April 13, 2009 Diane Porinchok, 10761 Mitchell Rd., is strongly opposed it will not benefit her only a few neighbors. This is an injustice
please reconsider your plans
Commissioner Kokoski asked Assistant County Prosecutor Innes to swear anyone in wishing to give testimony, he did with six (6)
people being sworn in.
Commissioner Kokoski asked if any Township Trustees have any comments.
Ed Neiger, 10934 Mitchell Road, Columbia Township is a Trustee but would speak as a landowner, but knows that the Trustees are in favor of this. He said his house primarily gets all the water and unfortunately, the neighbors do not see that the tile drains everyone’s property and it is also a hazard. He stated the Health Officer said there is a safety factor here and that is why the petition was filed to eliminate this. He would have like to see the Board go out for bids before the assessment letters were received because he believes the cost will be lower. He has spoken with two contractors; one on Bronson Road and Dave Gill that are interested in bidding on the project.
Assistant County Prosecutor Innes said the process has been followed by the Ohio Revised Code, Engineer does an estimate and then it will go out for bid if approved, if price comes in lower the assessments would be lowered.
Journal entry cont. April 14, 2009
Bill Holtzman, Lorain County Engineer’s Office said he believes the bids will come in lower and the engineer’s estimate is on the conservative side. The original estimate was around $91,000 and an alternative was proposed at a cost of around $34,000. This tile has failed and is causing a detriment impact upstream and it is time to go forward with this project. The benefits exceed the cost of the project and potential impacts upstream with condensation of septic tanks he thinks that we will never be in an economic environment to see this at least expensive as possible. There was one comment made about not being compensated for the property that was being impacted by Mrs. Dempsey.
The tile will go where it is now, there is not detriment to the property and would restore property equal too or better than before improvement.
Assistant Prosecutor Innes asked what is basis for assessments. Mr. Holtzman said the assessments are based on the watershed that is contributing to the improvement.
Commissioner Kokoski asked if anyone was here for Soil & Water, there was no one.
Ken Roth, 10835 West River Road, Columbia Township said he supports the project, there will be a benefit and will cooperate with the Engineer’s office for ingress and egress onto his property. He would suggest to the Engineer’s videotaping the project before and after to mitigate damage to any property.
Ralph Santillo, 10713 Mitchell Road, Columbia Township said it has been the same deal since the first hearing and today, it only benefits the other neighbor, the residents have lost and you are taking his sleep away. If he replaces windows will others help him pay for it.
Commissioner Kokoski asked about an appeal right. Assistant County Prosecutor Innes said there are appeal rights in accordance with the Ohio Revised Code.
Commissioner Kokoski said in the cities there is an equalization board for assessments, how does the county work. Assistant County Prosecutor Innes said the appeal is done within 21 days to the Court of Common Pleas.
Edmond Tallos, representing father at 11030 Mitchell Road said the majority is opposed to this project and simply his father has no problem with water and it is unnecessary, but is necessary for Mr. Neiger. He stated that majority of the people and Mrs. Dempsey is upset because there is no benefit. The improvement might drain the ditch better but, who knows, there has never been an issue with the health problems. He would ask for consideration because to fix one to two homes, is not the basis to approve and must be denied.
Assistant County Prosecutor Innes said the entire system is one, if it is abandoned and not fixed and the bottom is blocked what will happen. The residents upstream get benefit from downstream and everyone wants the benefit and the whole system needs to work from top to bottom. Mr. Tallos said under law the majority of the people do not have a problem. Assistant County Prosecutor Innes said this is a situation with all drainage, no one wants to pay but they use it and this ditch needs to be maintained to work properly.
Ralph Santillo asked if it was helping the Board, how about the Board gives money. Assistant County Prosecutor Innes said he does not live in this area. Mr. Santillo said the water has been there for 34 years, never had a mosquito or bug problem on his property he feeds fish to five other ponds.
Phyllis Dempsey, 10795 Mitchell Road said no one has permission to go onto her land, it is private property. The majority of the people that have spoken have stated that it will not be a benefit. She stated that Mr. Neiger has bad problems why did he spend a lot of money in his home in that location, Norman has problem with septic, then let him get a new system. If Mr. Roth had done his job, the way it should have been some of these people would had problems. He has his land and wants everyone to pay to have his land of 32 acres drained so he can sell and build new houses. When the Health Department came to her house they would not allow her to go back on her land where everyone wants to come across now and dig field up, they would not allow her to put her leach field there. However, they let Mr. Roth and the house that he sold they let them put leaches and raw sewage is going on her property. She stated the Health Department has a problem here and she thinks they should have not allowed and when people say one thing and does something else like Mr. Neiger he must have not been worried too much about his house if he spent thousands of dollars to rebuild his house.
Mr. Roth asked her to state her correct address. Mr. Dempsey said she lives at 33600 Cooley Rd.
Commissioner Kokoski said could people go on property. Assistant County Prosecutor Inns said this is an existing improvement and the county has the right.
Shawn Newsome, 3170 Jerusalem Road, Vermilion son in law of Mrs. Dempsey asked how the boundary was determined, the watershed boundary would be correct on west side but not on the east side because it is a straight line of about 800 feet. Mr. Holtzman said there is a tree line, which is mounted up and water directs along tree line.
Mr. Newsome asked what the total fall is in the land from north to south. Mr. Holtzman did not know, but said he would get an answer.
Mr. Newsome asked what was used for a determination. Mr. Holtzman said it was taken from the contour maps downstairs.
Mr. Newsome said looking at this map, her property is approximately 90 feet from the open ditch on 5 acres and does not see a tie in. Mr. Holtzman said there is currently one there.
Mr. Newsome said if property drains to the ditch, the tie in would be east property line why would she have to pay for 800 feet of pipe upstream when the pipe is going diagonally across her property. Mr. Holtzman said there will be 600 feet of pipe and 300 feet of ditch will be cleaned. Total area is 66 acres, everyone benefits
Mr. Newsome said the majority of the project is upstream from her property. If you put a road in and not put tile down the street and there are 5 acres at end of street, and some hundred feet between houses why does she have to pay other people’s pipe to have it drained. Not everyone drains the same so they should not pay the same. Are you expecting these people here to pay for this so down the road so other people can build houses down the street and drain the water through here.
Mr. Holtzman said this assessment is the lay of the land and how it drains.
Mr. Newsome said none of this land drains out here and look at map and it is very flat does not drain much at all and on her property you have a difference of 9” and what he is hearing is that this will be put in and these people will have to pay and additional houses will be build and drain into it.
Mr. Holtzman said if there are houses build within this property, this is the watershed to this parcel.
Mr. Newsome said there are houses upstream beyond where she is tied into, she has to pay for. Mr. Holtzman said we are only talking about replacing the tile that is failed.
Mr. Newsome said he is told that this tile is working. Mr. Holtzman said it is not working; it works a little because some of the roots were removed but will guarantee that a year from now it will not work.
Mr. Newsome asked where the roots where. Mr. Holtzman said roots were on Mrs. Dempsey’s property, he was not there when it was clean but there was a block that a jet was ran through and was able to get some water going through or there would have been standing water. He said it is working but roots will block it again.
Mr. Roth said if we would have spent $500 we would not be spending $40,000 plus an assessment.
Mr. Newsome said the price is high. Mr. Holtzman said this would be a prevailing wage project; it will go out for public bid.
Mr. Newsome asked if there were easements. Mr. Holtzman said no, it was put in under a petition in 1917 as a public improvement and the county has the right to maintain and upgrade.
Journal entry cont. April 14, 2009
Mr. Newsome said the road is about 1.6 acres and this does not absorb water. The area should be re-calculated so the price is equal. He said when commercial buildings are built or a parking lot there has to be a retention pond, why because there is semi-pervious gravel or paving that is pervious. Impervious surface does not drain you have to have a pond to release water and this needs to be considered because the biggest contributor of this water is the road. However, the way you have it figured is someone with a 5-acre build that is downhill from the vast majority of this drainage area is going to pay 3-4 times more than what the road is producing water.