Denville Community Church United Methodist
Building Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 15, 2004
Members Present / Members AbsentBob Anderson / Ira Clemens
Matt Ballentine / George Imhoff
Glen Buchanan / Neil Kiely
Arnold Card / Sandie Sebastian
Doug Gabel / Rick Yobs
Frank Leone
Jean Nightingale
Meeting opened with a prayer and devotion from Doug Gabel at 7:35 PM.
Devotion: It Takes Time
We’ve all been wrestling with what has been a long process with regards to our efforts around this project. It seems like such a long time ago that we began discussing this and although today we find ourselves ready to fully engage the congregation, it seems like it's been a real struggle to get to this point. God reassures us that we need to be patient and he will provide. Today we are obsessed with speed. We have instant everything. So we ask ourselves "Why do things take so long?" We are slow learners. We also have much to unlearn. We are afraid to humbly face the truth about ourselves. Growth is often painful and scary. Habits take time to develop. God tells us - "Don't be in a hurry!" Believe that God is working with us and is in your life even when you don't feel it - continue to listen to his voice. Be patient with God and with yourself. Don't be discouraged. Believe in PBPGINFWUY. (Please Be Patient. God Is Not Finished With Us Yet) Let’s work in God’s time. Remember, There are no shortcuts to maturity.
Committee Reports Review:
CommitteeDenville Township/Planning Board/Board of Adjustment Liaison (Anderson) / Nothing new to report
Architect/ Site/Property
(Leone) / An updated Building Concepts Comparison document was presented. A meeting was held to discuss Butler building concepts with Steve Bias.
Finance Committee
(Buchanan/Kiely) / Meeting with Bob Costello was moved from November 10th to November 29th 7 – 9pm.
Thrift Shop
(Card) / Nothing new to report
Social/Recreation Space
(Clemens) / Ira to meet on 11/22 with Mr. Smith of Office Business Systems to explore phone system expansion. Ira to meet with UMW in early December.
Arnold Card indicated Elaine Barker is trained in commercial kitchen design and has invited us to use her as a resource to design our new kitchen.
Space Reallocation
(Clemens) / Nothing new to report
Office Space
(Kiely) / Final office survey results will be published and discussed at the 12/13 Building Committee meeting.
Educational Space
(Nightingale/Sebastian) / Nothing new to report
Community Use
(Yobs) / Nothing new to report
Glad Tidings Articles
(Imhoff/Ballentine) / Article submitted for December Glad Tidings, see attachment 2
Document Management
(Markert) / Nothing new to report
Grant Writing (Kiely/Buchanan/Gabel) / A follow-up meeting with the Grant Writers will be scheduled next week for Monday, 11/22. The agenda will be to review progress to date on prospective grant foundations, developing a grant template incorporating all pertinent information and division of grant writing responsibilities by person.
Will report back to Building Committee at 12/6 meeting.
MEETING DISCUSSION AND DECISIONS
The team reviewed ACTION ITEMS and updated status. They next reviewed Committee Reports.
Stained Glass Placement - Doug Gabel will provide Frank Leone and Arnold Card document/picture indicating how stained glass windows were arranged at the former church building.
Special Church Conference/Information Meeting – To begin our discussions on presenting our plans to-date with the congregations, Jean Nightingale shared an article to be printed in the December Glad Tidings. See Attachment 2. Leading up to the information meeting on Sunday, January 9, 2005 between 1:00 – 2:30 PM, we will be presenting during the Ritual of Friendship and Parish Notices on November 28th, December 5th, and December 12th. These will be only 2 – 3 minute “teasers”. Our plan is to cover our progress in 3 segments:
11/28 – History/Heritage and how it ties in with our work – up to and including the Expansion Realization Team – Doug Gabel to present
12/5 – Current / Proposed – this will be a recap from the charter of the Building Committee (May 2004) to present, including a photo montage of “our church today” and building concepts we are considering - Jean Nightingale will present.
12/12 – How are going to get there? This will cover high level thoughts on capital campaign drive, financing, grants, sizing the project, etc.. – Rick Yobs will present. (Doug will ask him) (also, Steve Smith might want to help?)
Each presentation should leave the congregation “hanging” and anticipating the next weeks message and the January 9th informational meeting.
To structure and start our thinking, Frank Leone presented 3 flow charts to work from. Each committee member added bullets and helped provide clarification around each “phase”.
After each presentation, we will have flyers, handouts, and visual displays during coffee hour. Building Committee members should be available each Sunday to respond to comments and questions presented by the congregation. Caution should be used so as to not get to far ahead of the presentation story. Doug Gabel presented a rough draft of flyers the congregation can take home – due to the size of these flyers, they will not be attached to these minures, but Doug Gabel can be contacted to view them.
Architect Support of Butler Building – Doug Gabel and Frank Leone met with Steve Bias to discuss his ability/willingness to support the integration of a Butler building into his existing drawings. Steve is willing to entertain the use of the Butler Building. He provided additional information for our comparison of building options. See Attachment 1. An action item was taken by Bob Anderson to interview and walk through St. Jude Roman Catholic Church in Blairstown, NJ. He will see if he can schedule this site visit prior to our next Building Committee meeting and report out at that time. Anyone interested in going with Bob should call him as soon as possible.
OPEN ACTION ITEMS:
- Project Coordinator Job Description - Doug Gabel and Arnold Card to put together roles & responsibilities document. Frank Leone will also provide a Project Coordinator Job Description. Doug found a number of Job Description’s up on the internet and Arnold has documented a number of responsibilities. These will all be input into the final document(s). IN PROGRESS – 10-04-04 – Doug drafted a consolidated Job Descriptionbased on various Internet samples, Arnold’s draft ideas, and items specific to our needs. The team should review this document for further discussions.
10/18/04 – this action item will be placed on hold for the time being, until we can come to closure on other action items such as building design, and special church conference. Follow-up in 2 months (December, 2004).
- Telephone System - Ira Clemens questioned the need and ability to upgrade our existing phone system. ACTION ITEM: Ira Clemens will investigate the ability to upgrade our existing phone system. 11/1/04 – Ira has started investigating, but nothing to report yet. Follow-up 11/15/04 meeting.
11/15/04 – Ira has made contact with Mr. Smith of Office Business Systems that installed our telephone system. He will be walking through the building and concept plans to obtain an estimate. Follow-up 12/6/04 meeting
- Butler Building Walk Through - An action item was taken by Bob Anderson to interview and walk through St. Jude Roman Catholic Church in Blairstown, NJ. He will see if he can schedule this site visit prior to our next Building Committee meeting and report out at that time. Follow-up 12/6/04 meeting
Closed Action Items
- Multi Purpose Room space (10-4-04) – Matt Ballentine raised concerns regarding the size and use of the multi-purpose room. It is felt the current size, although not initially intended for use as a gymnasium, may not meet our growing need for this kind of space. All agreed we do not want to limit our future growth by under designing, but also do not want to overextend our budget.
ACTION ITEM - 10-04-04 – Doug and Frank to dialog with Steve Bias to get his thoughts on use of a Butler Building for this space in order to reduce costs.
10/18/04 - COMPLETE - See Frank Leone Report above
ACTION ITEM - 10-04-04 – Doug and Frank to hold discussions with Landmark Design Builders and Intermark Building and Design companies to better understand this type of construction, obtain cost estimates for an 8,000 sq. ft. structure, estimated operating costs, estimated maintenance costs, and why we should consider this type of construction over frame and masonry construction. 10/18/04 - COMPLETE - See Frank Leone Report in 10/18/04 minutes.
- Grant Writing Seminar - George, Matt, Pat O’Dell and Rick Yobs will be attending a grant-writing workshop at Princeton Seminary during the last week in October. ACTION ITEM - Report on this at our next meeting.
2a. Grant Research - Neil Kiely is preparing an information sheet to assist with identifying potential areas to research for grant monies. ACTION: Neil to provide this information to Doug ASAP.
10-04-04- A meeting has been set up with grant writers. Neil’s document was lost in a disc crash on his computer and he is attempting to reconstruct it.
10/18/04 – COMPLETE. A document was drafted and provide to the Grant Writers detailing our “Ministry to Facility” Building Project. Neil will continue to report on this as part of our committee reports.
Meeting was held on 10/11/04 concerning the opportunity to apply for non-profit grants to help subsidizes the construction/equipping of the new expanded facility.
In attendance were Doug Gabel, Neil Kiely, Steve Smith representing the Building Committee and Finance and Kent LaRue and Pat O'Dell who have volunteered to investigate prospective giving foundations. The grant writers were exposed to the scope of the project, potential uses as well as users (both within the Church as well as the community at large) by room and finally, the initial cost estimates for construction. They indicated that while foundations giving to churches is rather unusual, given our community orientation and the use of the facility as a nursery school would provide unique opportunities for them to explore.
A meeting to review progress was tentatively scheduled for mid-November. Follow-up for 12/6/04 Meeting for report.
CLOSED – Grant writing information will be carried in the committee reports going forward.
- Thrift Shop Location – Arnold Card brought up the location of the Thrift Shop in the front parking lot. Excavation of the hill and installation of a stone retaining wall on the front of the parsonage (but not to obstruct any view from the parsonage) might be able to accommodate an appropriately sized building, plus give a bit more visibility to the public.
Concerns were raised regarding neighborhood reaction to such a visible store and whether Denville Planning Board would approve. Bob Anderson believes it would be passable by the town.
Concern regarding additional costs for excavation/retaining wall installation and earth movement permit also raised. It is assumed all other costs would be equal (cement pad for foundation, building costs, etc)
10/18/04 - ACTION ITEMS - Doug Gabel will contact DiGuisepie excavators to get a quote for excavation and retaining wall installation.
Matt Ballentine will contact Dave Brown to get a quote for excavations/retaining wall installation. Both items will be reported out at our next meeting (11/1).
11/1/04 – CLOSED – See discussion items in 11/1/04 meeting minutes.
- Office space surveys - Office space surveys forwarded, via Cynthia, to respective office holders and report of needs will be finalized by the 11/1/04 Building Committee meeting. ACTION ITEM: Neil will report findings at the November 1st meeting.
11/1/04 – Neil is evaluating responses and will report at 11/15/04 meeting. This action item will be tracked in committee reports going forward.
- Property Lines – Arnold shared with the team the agreement we have with our neighbor at 192 Diamond Spring Road. We swapped some property to accommodate our driveway and his.
ACTION ITEM – 10-04-04 – Arnold Card to secure documentation to be placed on file as official documents describing the swap of property. This will eliminate potential problems in the future. 10/18/04 – COMPLETE, however the copy of the survey color-coded is not a “town approved” official document, it will serve as a reference for the future.
10/18/04 -New Action item: BOB ANDERSONwill check town tax records to see if there was an “official” application for change in property line. This may be a moot point if right of way takes precedence over the property variance.
11/01/04 -CLOSED – See committee report in 11/1/04 meeting minutes.
- Stained Glass Windows - Discussion of use of stained glass windows that are currently in storage in the garage indicated a strong interest of the committee members to use these windows in our new construction. Dimensions and use must be conveyed to Steve Bias so he can place the windows in our architectural drawings, and make adjustments, as appropriate. Arnold Card will provide window dimensions and pictures to Frank Leone.
10/13/04 - The stained glass windows have been measured and we have one set of pictures as well as a set of pictures of the shapes of the frames. There are 4 full-length windows, over 6’ high…Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Four half size of the prophets, Hosea, Amos, Jeremiah and Isaiah, two with one curved side alpha and omega (the word) and the 10 commandments (the law), two with a 90 degree side A&B and an arc for the hypotenuse which probably fits above the aforementioned two with the arced sides. There is an additional one with the same shape only a smaller size. Jack Coates said the mate to this one was lost/sold and never regained. Arnold spoke to Bonnie of Georgia’s Stained Glass Company (she had previously looked at the windows in 1998). She will try to resurrect her old quote and update it. She remembered the windows, as she was there when we pulled them out back in 1998.
10/18/04 – ACTION ITEM – Frank Leone will pass dimensions on to Steve Bias to determine where we could incorporate these windows into our building. CLOSED – All information is gathered and ready to share with Steve Bias once we begin interior design. Frank Leone will hold these materials.
10/18/04 – ACTION ITEM – Ira Clemens has a document that shows how the stain glass was arranged when they were last used. He will provide a copy to Doug Gabel for Frank Leone/Steve Bias’ use in determining how to best display these works of art.
11/1/04 - CLOSED – Ira provided to Doug Gabel.
Stained Glass Placement - 11/1/04 - ACTION ITEM – Doug Gabel to scan document provided by Ira Clemens that indicates how stained glass windows were arranged at the former church building. Will provide documentation to Frank Leone and Arnold Card for their reference.CLOSED – See 11/15/04 Meeting Minutes
- Special Church Conference/Information Meeting - All committee members are asked to suggest a method to convey the building committee story to our congregation during the special church conference. Doug Gabel indicated we need a way to “connect the dots” for the congregation while addressing the needs and ministries they identified in recent years. A strong preference for avoiding talking “bricks and mortar” but to discuss the ministries that will take place in each new area was expressed. In other words, do not talk about the size and placement of the multipurpose room, but the ministries that will be addressed within the walls of that room. Suggestions include the use of display boards, digital pictures imposed on the floor plan of activities taking place in the expansion, a video of current activities, etc.
ACTION ITEM – Frank Leone volunteered and will bring materials to our November 15th meeting to “brainstorm” storyboard ideas. CLOSED – See 11/15/04 Meeting Minutes
ACTION ITEM- All committee members to bring actionable ideas to the November 15th meeting.
See discussion topics in 11/1/04 meeting minutes. CLOSED – See 11/15/04 Meeting Minutes
- Architect Support of Butler Building – Doug Gabel and Frank Leone to discuss with Steve Bias his ability/willingness to support the integration of a Butler building into his existing drawings. ACTION ITEM- Doug and Frank to report out on 11/15/04 meeting. CLOSED – See 11/15/04 Meeting Minutes
ATTACHMENT 1
Construction Component / Masonry/Stick / Butler - Intermark / Butler - Landmark "A" / Butler - Landmark "B"Structure Size / 60' x 100' / 65' x 110' / 62' x 110' / 62' x 110'
Height / 14" / 24' / 24' / 18' - 28'4"(peak) / 14" - 16' 7"/18' - 23' 2"
Square Footage / 5955sq. ft. / 8670sq. ft. (a) / 8700sq. ft. (b) / 6820sq. ft.
Number of floors / 1 / 2 / 2 / 1
Construction (mos.) / approx. 10 / 7 / 9 / 9
Building Only Cost (approx.) / $676,500 (d) / $572,000 - $679,000 / $572,000 / $494,000
HVAC Size (tons) / Separate / Separate / 25 / 22
HVAC Cost / 100,000 / included / $91,000 / $86,000
Electrical / 50,000 / included / $38,000 / $30,000
Plumbing / 50,000 / included / 34,000 / 32,000
Site Planning, Permits, etc.. / not included / not included / not included / not included
Foundation (site prep and slab) / included / included / included / included
Utility Connections, water, gas, sewer, etc.. / not included / not included / not included / not included
Exterior
Brick siding / included / included in $95 cost / $80,000 / $80,000
Interior
Partitions, sheetrock, paint, tile, etc.. / included / included / 150,000 / 140,000
Cabinetry (kitchen) / not included / not included / not included / not included
Alarms / not included / not included / not included / not included
Phone System / not included / not included / not included / not included
Price per sq. ft. / $147 (e) / $80 to $95 / $111 / $126
Approx. Cost / $876,500 / $572,000 - $679,000 / $965,000 / $862,000
(a) includes 38' x 50' mezzanine area
(b) includes approx. 38' x 50' mezzanine area
(d) $615,000 12/03 estimate + 10% inflation increase
(e) cost per sq. ft. comes down to $115 if mezzanine is added (approx 1800 sq. ft.)
ATTACHMENT 2
Advent Surrounds Us!
ad·vent (dvnt) n.