Lake County Commissioners

Public Hearing Concerning the Kootenai Lodge

April 4, 2006 Transcription

Commissioners Present: Chuck Whitson, Paddy Trusler, Mike Hutchin

Planning Staff Present: Don Wood, Sue Shannon

DEGRANDPRE: For the record, I represent the Milhous Group. I think primarily the reason that we are here to today is because on May 10, 2005, Lake County Commissioners granted conditional preliminary approval to the Milhous Group. One of the conditions of course had to do with the location of the sewage disposal system. That is condition number 13. It stated that if Lot 4 of The Ridge, which was originally proposed to contain the sewage disposal system, became unavailable for various reasons that the developer will then re-approach Lake County with a new proposal. That is what we are doing here today; we have a new proposal as you are well aware for the location of the sewage disposal system, the route of the lines, etc. So, while much is being made of the proposed amendments, and certainly we will get to that, it is in an important part of the discussion. The primary reason we are here is to comply with condition number 13. As you are well aware, we received a determination of non-significance from the Montana Department of Environmental Quality regarding the sewage disposal system stating that the system will not degrade state water under the rules that are in place. I guess the second issue really is the site plan, the secondary issue is the site plan. Through spending time on the property over the last months, spending more time there, seeing the site and I guess most importantly probably listening to community concerns and looking to see, seeing how we can try to address some of those concerns, we are now proposing certain changes. The density obviously was approved at fifty-seven units. Fifty-seven single family homes on the forty-one acre site. We would now like to voluntarily reduce that to forty-two and that was I think the most prominent issue that was brought up throughout the public hearing process, the number of units. Another one of course was the natural environment; trees were an issue, the character of the site. Through the changes that we are proposing both the roadway and the reduction in the number of units, we can save forty-three units, excuse me forty-three trees I believe from the roadway changes alone and a total of one hundred and twelve if we reduce the number of units as well. And these trees as you probably know from being on the site are pretty, are quite prominent. They were planted many, many, years ago and people will grow ponderosa pines and other species and they have a lot of character and help to buffer the site from offsite properties. Also, with the proposed change in the roadway network we can reduce the square footage of impervious surface by over thirty-five thousand square feet, which we hope will minimize and certainly reduce concerns about storm water run off, impacts to water quality and those sorts of things. Another concern was the cultural and historical components of the site. Much was made about the Kootenai Lodge itself being an incredible structure, (in audible) and in order to keep in it in its current use or excuse me in its past use as a community gathering place, we have made a change to change it use from a proposed home to a community gathering place to maintain the cultural historical aspect of the property with the building itself. And I guess finally there were also some duplexes that were proposed or some units that were going to be converted into two family residences and we have eliminated those. So, really what the amendments or the proposed modifications boil down to is trying to list the community concerns and come up with better ways to respect the site the historical and cultural significance in the environment. So we have made some proposed changes, but again I believe those are secondary and the reason that we are here is to deal with the sewage proposal system issue and so we would like to address any questions that you guys have.

TRUSLER: Ok. Mr. BILLMAYER maybe you could talk a little bit more in depth about the sewage disposal design, alignment, etc.

BILLMAYER: I would be pleased to. I’ve got some exhibits over here, but I’ve got to sort of separate it from

TRUSLER: Ok, do you need that, do you need the easel?
BILLMAYER: Actually I looked it over. I think the chair and I can work up something back here.

TRUSLER: Ok

BILLMAYER: It doesn’t have a shelf on it.

TRUSLER: Oh, ok.

(people getting the presentation ready)

BILLMAYER: Commissioners I am Jay Billmayer, the project engineer for the Milhous Group and the Kootenai Condominiums. The search for a possible disposal site, one that had the adequate topography geohydrology setting and availability of course, finally focuses on this lot, thirty-eight plus acres, and I am sure you are well aware of the location it is near the highway and it located about eleven thousand feet away from the Kootenai Lodge Project. It is about twenty-seven hundred feet that is the drain fields are about twenty-seven hundred feet away from the Swan River a little over. The residential or the domestic sewage that will be generated onsite as a result of this development, includes the existing sewage loads, that is there was an onsite system located in the south corner of the site that was serving the existing buildings and that will be connected to the system, and then we have a lift station located in the northern third just across Johnson Creek and then we pressurize and transport sewage up to the disposal site. At the onset in our initial submittal we indicated we would be pursuing a design that utilized a level two treatment. That is it has a nitrogen, it is a nitrogen reducing system. It is an onsite system all the primary elements are below grade. We have indicated there will be some kind of a service building. There isn’t any actual treatment operations conducted in a building. There is no open waste water pond surfaces. There is even an odor control element built into this treatment process. What we plan to do is of course serve the forty-two condominium home sites that are proposed. We have added in an expansion capability of eleven additional homes, no specific designation at this point, just addressing that there may be some future need, the Lodge itself and then any pool facility. A little more about the onsite sewage loads, I felt somewhat ambushed with the issue of pool discharge. We have never intended other than about fifteen hundred gallons a day emanating from filter backwash and from restrooms and sanitary facilities and perhaps some floor drains. At the pool site we never intended the pool would be discharged and pool water actually being passed through the waste water treatment system. And so I have written a follow up letter to Sue Shannon and your County Sanitarian and I hope a copy is eventually migrated to you. But it was just to clear up the issue that you know a pool could have forty thousand gallons or so capacity and that would certainly overload, hydraulically overload the system if that was dumped in the system and that was never the intent. In fact most pools seldom actually ever change all the water. They add water and they process water, but it is never the desire to pull the plug and dump it into the sewer system. So hopefully we’ve got that issue resolved. It certainly, if we ever did de-water the pool we could do it through the sprinkler system or some type of land application after we have neutralized the chlorine. Chlorine content would be quite low. The only reason why I am burdening you with further discussion is it seemed to be an issue with the Planning Board and I want to get that put to rest. The next exhibit I have is an upside down exhibit of the sewer site and the emergency facility site. The, you can see that it has been partially logged or some people would say parked out. I don’t think it quite fits that definition in that there is a little more tree density than that. There is pretty good screening. The under store is starting to grow up and it obviously happened a number of years ago. I am estimating ten, fifteen years back. The, we’ve entered the site along the southwest corner, most of the facilities are going to be on the core of the site and here is the emergency services lot. Then I’ve got one more I would like to show you. This is the results of our analysis of the subsurface conditions at the site. We, there was an existing well on site. We put in another well a deep well at this location and we’ve documented additional wells in the area. Basically there are two aquifers present. There is a deep aquifer which is primary ground water, drinking water source, a very good aquifer in that it is I think it relates primarily to the valley floor. It is an alluvium and it has very high yield. The, and initial borings down to about fifteen to twenty feet that is the only aquifer that we thought was present initially and then as we got further into the fall seasons we started to pick up some precip, we detected a shallow aquifer in one of the holes. We started exploring even deeper and you can see the efforts are a boring indication. As we went deeper we started penetrating and I think the ground water came up a little bit as a result of starting to pick up some moisture in the hydrologic cycle, additional drainage passing through the site. We then defined an aquifer that rides about somewhere between twenty and twenty-five feet below the surface and we characterized it in this area. It has a slope that actually is much deeper than the main valley floor aquifer is considerably higher. There is a major play layer that separates the two. It is a very plastic clay. I am estimating about fifty feet thick and we’ve, we know that separates the two primary water sources. Drainage off the site is west with a little bit of a northwest component and we have characterized the hydraulic conductivity. We have characterized the nutrient transport capability and those were all elements that went into securing DEQ’s approval for non-significance in the site. So that is all I would like to say about the site unless you have some additional questions.

TRUSLER: Is there anybody else in the developers group that would like to speak. I do have some questions. You knew I would about a septic system

BILLMAYER: Yeah right and also want to put up an exhibit that characterizes the amount of the reduction of the asphalt area which was the first primary element of our request and I’ve got one other issue. There has been a lot of to-do about flood plane and we had high water and anticipating the order of questions regarding that, I will put that up. So if I can take just a few more minutes and kind of refresh your memories as to the Johnson Creek Flood Plane and Riparian (sp) Zone which is an area that was never cleared. It is an area of natural area set back along Johnson Creek and we have characterized those areas with the red line being a set back line along Johnson Creek. Our approval indicates we’ve got to state eighty feet back. In addition to that we’ve imported the flood plane boundary which is the magenta line the dash line and that is extracted from your FEMA maps that you have for Johnson Creek. One step further, we’ve put on what we call a Riparian Boundary which is the green line. That is the line that wasn’t cleared as part of the original Kootenai Lodge development. It is when you say you are at the Polo Field or at the Meadow here at the north and you go south, it is the tree lines, the base of the trees and where the brush starts. That is the green line. So when the last Spring when Johnson Creek during run off event exceeded its banks there was a lot of neighborhood concerns that perhaps these units that we are proposing in here are going to be flooded, even though it is outside the flood plane boundary. I think historically in leveling the Polo Field I think they changed the contours out there from what was originally developed as an alluvial fan for Johnson Creek and I think they tried to level the Polo Field and move some of the material a little bit south. You will see it is a very consistent slope. It is a nice open area. What we’ve done is added to that the units and the approximate location of units as they would be build in those areas respecting flood plane, respecting set back and then we added grading typical home development or typical home construction, we have some drainage away from the foundation. If you look at the building codes new international building code, IBC, actually sets out some profile criteria of five percent for ten feet away from the structure and then some positive drainage away from the structure and some elevation above the curb line that have positive drainage to the curbs so you can drain your driveway, connect to the gutter system. So when you impose a typical foot print for each of these buildings, you will be able to see from this exhibit that any flow outside of Johnson Creek is going to be held right at very close to the flood plane boundary because the slope then reverses and you actually have an invert which is right about at the edge of the flood plane delineation. Still doesn’t affect the Riparian Zone and if that is generally smaller than the flood plane boundary and that was an element that was never really picked up on before when people were concerned about set backs on Johnson Creek. It was just your staff was out there. We made some measurements. We had some aerial photos but it was never really tied down and that is what this document does, puts that in perspective for you. So you’ve got Johnson Creek, you’ve got a home site and we’ve got several sections through these so you can see typically where if the water would stay away from the structures and primarily near the Riparian Zone certainly within the flood plane set back zone. So we are not going to have flood water. Johnson Creek over flows its banks we won’t have flood water running down the streets or filling crawl spaces and affecting the structures and it is just simple side grading that had never been incorporated into it. There is nothing special about it. That is the way the structures are going to be sited throughout the project. It just addresses that issue for you and so I think that is about it other than any questions you have.

TRUSLER: Chuck?

WHITSON: Nope

TRUSLER: I would just like a further explanation on how Level 2 is going to be accomplished on site. Are you talking intermittent filter, intermittent sand filter. Are you talking about Advantex or what mechanism are you using for, to obtain Level 2 treatment?

BILLMAYER: It is an Advantex

TRUSLER: Ok

BILLMAYER: There are comparative processes. But Advantex is the process of choice in that they have excellent local support to maintain Level 2 we have to have an annual review and we actually get an operating license for the system and they have operators. They have an excellent data system it is very straightforward. They know how the system operates right from their computers. The sewer district will be paying an annual fee for these services. Sewer district will be retaining them or someone, a trained operator certified by them for operation and maintenance. I initially was thinking we would have a little more broad a little more competitive approach but after I really started studying who is supporting the process, this is no doubt that Advantex is doing to a good job. I think they are in your county, you folks are, down here, I shouldn’t say, this is all in your county. Flathead County is kind of their headquarters but they’ve got operators and they are getting more. This thing is building to the point where I think this is the system of choice. It is the wave of the future for onsite disposal systems and it works and they control it. The recirculating, the tripling sand filter is no longer acceptable and they down rated that as they started their field studies about two years ago and they found out they were not getting the nitrogen removed. This will have the nitrogen reduced down to twenty-four milligrams per liter about a sixty percent reduction. That is where we are headed, that is who we are working with and that is the design that your sanitation folks are going to see.