PA LEEF September 19, 2016 meeting synopsis
Erie County Conservation District, Erie, PA
Q= question
A=answer
C=comment
Dates and logistics for next two meetings:
December 12, 2016Tom Ridge Environmental Center1 to 4pm
Topics: Draft version of the Pennsylvania Domestic Action Plan and review of the organization and structure of the Lake Erie Lakewide Action and Management Plan, (LAMP). The Special Focus will feature the Pennsylvania Vested in Environmental Sustainability (VinES) Program and its collaborative work with grape farms and other agricultural land uses in the Pa Lake Erie Watershed.
March 13, 2017Erie County Conservation District1 to 4pm
Topics: Developments and progress of the Lake Erie LAMP at the basin scale. Additional topics to be announced prior to the meeting.
Questions/comments that occurred during presentations:
Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement update (Tim Bruno)
Q: Marty Visnosky- What happened to prior Lake ErieLakewide Management Plan activities?
A: Tim- The LAMP Partnership went on short hiatus while the 2012 Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement was put into place. All of the previous LAMP activities and documents will be incorporated into the new 2018 Lake Erie Lakewide Action and Management Plan as applicable.
Nutrients in PA Lake Erie Waterways (Jim Grazio)
No questions/comments
PA Phosphorous Reduction Domestic Action Plan (Tim Bruno)
C: Rick Diz- My current research will be estimating phosphorous and nitrogen contributions to Presque Isle Bay, including modeling hydrology.
A: Tim Bruno- we are using a model called SPARROW, trying to determine what phosphorous is coming from municipal vs. agricultural inputs. The Department is looking at ways to fund activities that maintain the health of Lake Erie.
Q: Rick Morris- Is this from lawn service inputs?
A: Tim Bruno- Initial research done by Steve Mauro indicated that a significant percentage of what we find is human-related e.g. malfunctioning septic systems.
Q: Amy Murdock- Are municipalities going to be targeted in these discussions? It’s important that they be onboard from the beginning.
C: Rick Diz- Encouraging and perhaps funding improvements is a better option that cranking down on NPDES.
C: Rick Morris- Millcreek Township has six streams that are considered impaired, all for sediment, zero for bacteria.
Q: Pat Lupo- Will you do a presentation on the draft PA Phosphorous Reduction Domestic Action Plan at the next PLEWA meeting?
A: Tim Bruno- yes.
HABs presentation (Nate Irwin and Jeanette Schnars):
Q: Rick Diz- microsystis values are showing up at zero on the buoy app; what is the process for maintenance and calibration on the buoys? Who is doing that? The current reading is “0”.
Jeanette Schnars/Nate Irwin- The buoys are regularly calibrated by using a secondary probe in the lab and comparing it with the results on the buoy. Values of zero on the website may also be because the value on the web doesn’t show the decimal place. Actual value could be 0.035 but the buoy will report out as zero.
Stormwater Fees and Legal Structures (Steve Halmi and Tim Wachter)
Q: Melanie Williams- Are there laws specific to having multiple municipality agreements?
A: Tim Wachter- Same law as water and sewer authorities so can do a joint municipal authority.
Q: Ann Quinn- what if there is a group or entity within one township, can they create their own watershed ordinance and work through the township?
A: Tim Wachter-In order to have benefits of the law and have the ability to implement the fee it has to be done through an authority. Township supervisors and commissioners, etc. have to create the authority by an ordinance, give it legal status, and then they would be able to run the fee program.
Q: Paul Maynard- What is the best way to way to collect fees?
A:TimWachter- If you don’t pay your fee you will have a lien filed against your house.
Steve Halmi- Clarification, WHEN do you collect fees: Fees can be collected in combination with water and sewer fees as a line item, or as a separate billing or mailing. Combining seems to be more convenient.
Tim Wachter-You need to have your plan in place, determine the finance costs and start charging the fee in advance. In Meadville things are done based on an annual assessment, however if you run into a hardship, you can pay on a quarterly basis if necessary.
Q: Rick Diz- Is this program typically done in communities with public water and sewer systems versus rural areas?
A: Steve Halmi-The program is not typically done at all in PA; some areas are looking into it and a few are implementing, but it has happened more in areas with public water and sewer because that’s where most of the infrastructure is, where stormwater is a big issue. It may be harder for rural areas to justify the fee because of natural stream flooding versus runoff from impervious surfaces.
Q:Christopher Youngs- Is a municipal authority required to begin to impose a fee?
A: Tim Wachter- Borough code does not have the authorization to charge a fee for stormwater projects but can engage in stormwater projects.
Q: Sean Logan- Learn more about remote sensing for impervious surface mapping in comparison to imposing a flat fee; two reasons 1.)Impervious mapping is fairer than flat fee 2)it can be used for other purposes (engineering/roadways) and federal funding is available to obtain it.
A: Tim Bruno- The Department has worked with Sean Rafferty and others with GLRI funded projects to gather data such as aerial photography and LIDAR and calculated impervious surface cover for all municipalities in the Lake Erie basin. This information is free and available to the municipalities.
Q: Dan Dahlkemper- Has the fee been implemented in other areas of the state and by separate municipalities or by watershed?
A: Tim Wachter-The municipalities planning act allows for the fee but doesn’t specify whether it has to be municipality- wide or in particular sections so that’s something that could be looked at. Don’t have a specific answer for that. Looking in areas of Pittsburgh, Lancaster, etc. Takes at least a year to get through the process laid out in the presentation.
Q: Dan Dahlkemper- Philadelphia had great examples of this but how can differing costs between municipalities be addressed? Are you able to do it through joint-municipal authority?
A: Tim Wachter- Yes, if multiple municipalities wanted to band together and share the cost, they could.
Revenue Planning Cost Assistance (Leann Sestak)
No comments
Public Comments Period:
Q: Pat Lupo-With regards to water withdrawals and registering for that, does fracking in the Lake Erie watershed have to go through the water withdrawal permission process?
A: Tim-Yes, if they go over a certain amount of time, they are required to report their withdrawal and then permitting if they go above a certain quantity (5 million gallons per day). They must request a withdrawal through the compact council.
Q: Sr. Pat-The streams in our area are so small, for example Sixteen and Twenty Mile, could they withdraw that much water from any of our streams?
A: Tim Bruno- I’m going to pass this over to Jim Miller from our Regional Office…
Jim- They would need to apply for a water management plan that goes in with the permit for how much water they need, where the withdrawals are coming from, how much water they are taking, and what they will do with the water it afterwards. There are passby requirements to ensure so much of the water keeps flowing.
Q: Anna McCartney- Water after drilling is typically not returned to the stream after use, correct?
Pat Lupo- Nor would you want it to be.
A: Tim-That’s right, it’s treated as a consumptive use and there are additional requirements on that. Currently no withdraws in the area are happening above requirement limits. I can get more information on that.
Q: Karin Tobin-The local HAB taskforce is looking for ways to educate residents and find out what we can do to help reduce Phosphorous loading. Do you recommend we wait until the domestic action plan is completed for partnering?
A: Tim-Yes, I suggest waiting so we can partner on that. Over the next month and a half will be drafting that document and we would like to includevarious types of programs into the overall strategy.
Q: Unidentified-Is PA still looking at reducing or taking out phosphates from pesticides and herbicides? Is there any specific legislation being considered?
A: Sean Logan- Scott’s fertilizers have eliminated all phosphorus from their products. It is a matter of corporate sustainability and Scott’s has shown that you can do that.
Q: Sean Logan-Is there any documentation of fencing or practices to reduce fecal coliform numbers upstreamin headwaters?
A: Tim Bruno-Documentation on those practices is tied into the grant program that funded those practices. Geospatial match up with how we are going to deal with phosphorus reductions over the next 5 years. This would address fecal bacteria as well.
Q: Rick Diz- Nutrient management plans are a requirement for animal operations with more than a certain # of large animals per acre, they regulate application of manure and fertilizers. The Erie County Conservation District manages this, correct? Is this widely implemented here?
A: Joe Hudson- I’m unable to answer the question, they have an ag specialist however at the ECCD that can address those types of questions.
A: Sean Logan-Ohio does this. Comprehensive plans are very complex. I have tried convincing NRCS to have a nutrient management plan “light” version so we could get practices implemented on the ground without going through a heavy planning process and instead come up with something more practical. Provide money for fencing of streams along with money for stream development so livestock has access. A new rule proposed is called the “distressed watershed” rule and is based through stormwater conservation district; if you are in a distressed watershed, you haveto have a comprehensive nutrient management plan. Lost the debate on this; but business practice was feed lots; not enough land for the amount of manure so it exacerbated itself. It moved from conservation being incentive and education based--- to regulatory. You lose people this way. Education is the best way.
A: Tim Bruno- Nutrient management regulations exist, and there is a nutrient management specialist in Meadville; his responsibility with the Crawford County Conservation District is to work hand in hand with agriculture operations to help meet those regulations.
C: Rick Diz- Lake Erie watershed: sediment and transport modeling; some older studies show that almost all of the sediment out of the mouth of Mill Creek came from headwaters (a lot of sediment is generated from the headwaters of Millcreek watershed which flows into Presque Isle), within certain sub watershed areas with hydrologic soil and agricultural activity combined to form a huge sediment loss potential. Not a lot of sediment is generated within urban areas, other items, but not a lot of sediment.
C: Marty Visnosky- After snowmelt, tremendous amounts of sediment and gravelare used to cut down on the use of salt. It is plugging the sewers.
Tim Bruno- salt is bad, sediment is bad but you have to get to work on a snowy day…We have reached four pm and if there are no additional comments we will close the meeting.
Comments compiled by Sara Stahlman and Marti Martz of Pennsylvania Sea Grant