NonDestructive Testing (NDT)
OCTOBER 2016
CONFIRMED
CONFIRMED MINUTES
OCTOBER 24TH- 26TH, 2016
PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA, USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, 24-OCT-2016 to WEDNESDAY, 26-OCT-2016
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS - CLOSED
1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Nondestructive Testing (NDT) Task Group was called to order at 8:00 a.m., 24-Oct-2016 by Dave Royce.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
Pongpaiboon / Akapaiboon / Triumph Structures (Thailand) LtdMark / Antonellis / BAE Systems
* / Peter / Bartsch / Premium Aerotec GmbH
* / Philippe / Beck / Airbus Helicopters
John / Biddulph / Rolls-Royce
* / Mitch / Birzer / General Dynamics / Gulfstream Aerospace
* / Alain / Bouchet / SAFRAN Group
* / Michael / Clark / Sikorsky Aircraft
David / Cohn / Boeing
Matt / Estep / Cessna Aircraft Company
* / Jianfei / Feng / COMAC
* / Jim / Fowler / Pratt & Whitney
* / Peter / Fridolf / GKN Aerospace Sweden AB
* / Steven / Garner / Eaton Aerospace Group
* / Frederic / Girard / Pratt & Whitney Canada
* / Jim / Graves / Rolls-Royce Corporation
* / Luis / Grijalva / Lockheed Martin Corporation
* / Harry / Hahn / GE Aviation
* / Edward / Hohman / Bell Helicopter Textron
* / Yoshiharu / Kuze / Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
* / Serge / Labbé / Heroux-Devtek, Inc.
Jill / Lewis / Parker Aerospace
Hendrich / Lim / Rolls-Royce Singapore
* / Steve / McCool / Honeywell Aerospace / Secretary
* / Neil / Metcalfe / GKN Aerospace (Filton)
* / Michael / Mitchell / UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand)
Joel / Mohnacky / UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand)
* / Fabrizio / Montagnoli / Leonardo – Helicopters
Yuji / Noguchi / Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
* / Dale / Norwood / Parker Aerospace Group
* / Scott / O'Connor / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Gary / O'Neill / Parker Aerospace Group
* / Justin / Payne / Textron Aviation
* / Robert / Rainone / UTC Aerospace (Goodrich)
Carl / Roche / UTC Aerospace (Goodrich)
* / David / Royce / Pratt & Whitney / Chairperson
* / Kurt / Ruoff / General Dynamics /Gulfstream Aerospace
* / Victor / Schonberger / Israel Aerospace Industries
* / Chris / Stevenson / Rolls-Royce
* / Scott / Sullivan / Honeywell Aerospace
Mike / Terry / The Boeing Company
Mottito / Togo / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Tony / Warren / Airbus / Vice Chairperson
* / Scott / Wegener / Rockwell Collins
Ronit / Weisblit / Israel Aerospace Industries
Trish / Wesemann / The Boeing Company
* / Sean / Wood / Triumph Group
Grzegorz / Wryk / Rolls-Royce
* / Jinqiu / Zhou / COMAC
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
* / Mark / Airey / Robert Stuart Ltd.* / Andy / Bakewell / E. M. Inspection Co. Ltd.
* / Doug / Barra / X-Ray Industries
David / Beard / PCC Airfoils LLC/Minerva, OH
Linda / Beene / Independent Contractor
Nancy / Bennett / Cetified Inspection Service Co. Inc
* / Graham / Buswell / SPS Aerostructures Ltd
* / N. David / Campbell / West Penn Testing Group
Inho / Cho / Koreanair
Charles / Clinton / Meggitt, San Diego
Derek / Coleman / Scot Forge Company
Cherise / Cooper / Cooper NDT
Mark / Crevier / Morton Manufacturing
Joshua / Crockett / Ellison Surface Technologies
Kevin / Curry / Magellan Aerospace Haley
Bill / Dhillon / Senior Aerospace Thermal Engineering
Peter / Doyle / Cassavant Assembly and Processing
Sheldon / Emmanuel / DCI Aerotech
Donald / Fie / Consolidated Precision Products - Syracuse
* / Nathan / Gangloff / RBC Aircraft Products Inc
* / Richard / Gasset / LISI Aerospace
Susan / Generalovich / Solar Atmospheres of Western PA
* / David / Gray / Mitchell Laboratories Inc.
Michael J. / Guthmiller / Applied Aerospace Structures Corp
Justin / Guzmon / Aircraft X-Ray Laboratories
Debbie / Hagar / NORDAM Interiors and Structures
Hyun Bae / Han / Korean Air
Fabienne / Héron / Babb Co
* / Helmuth / Hoeller / FACC Operations GmbH
Ira / Hughes / General Dynamics OTS Garland
Steve / Hutchinson / Braddock Metallurgical
Christopher / Joy / Orbit Industries Inc.
Richard / Kline / X-Ray Industries
Dean / Klix / Weatherford Aerospace , Novara Group
Kris / Krishnamoorshy / Applus RTD Canada LP
Yanick / Lavallee / Alcoa Titanium & Engineered Products
Shelly / Lawless / Meyer Tool, Inc.
Tom / Lewis / Lord Corporation
* / Grant / Lilley / Meyer Tool, Inc.
* / Zachary / Medeiros / Timken Aerospace
Juan / Moreno / Omni Metal Finishing
* / Blair / O'Connell / Element Materials Technology
* / Stefano / Pasquino / Bytest SRL
Juan M. / Perez / Aircraft Xray Laboratories, Inc.
John / Peterson / Wolkerstorfer Co Inc
* / Curt / Powell / PCC Structurals Inc. LPC
* / Steve / Radelich / Jorgensen Forge Corp.
Chris / Reed / Ducommun AeroStructures
Jim / Reinhardt / Aero-Safe Processing
Catherine / Renfer / Consolidated Precision Products - Syracuse
Stan / Revers / Senior Aerospace - Thermal Engineering
Robert / Rich / SPS Technologies
Doug / Riley / Magellan Aerospace - Haley
* / Frank / Saenz / Hi-Tech Metal Finishing
Agostino / Sardo / Bytest s.r.l.
Sean / Seese / Delta Air Lines
George / Siha / Southwest United Canada
Harold / Slaterpryce / PCC Airfoils, LLC
* / Michael D. / Steele / Northstar Aerospace Chicago Inc
Jackie / Sternot / PAKO, Inc.
Angie / Swedlund / Wellman Dynamics
Matt / Tarbay / Solar Atmospheres
Thomas / Tiffany / X-R-I Testing
* / Gary / White / Orbit Industries Inc.
David / Wilk / Semiray Special Process Division
Jason / Williams / Aurora Flight Sciences
Chris / Wolkerstorfer / Wolkerstorfer Company, Inc.
Brian / Yetman / Hi-Tech Metal Finishing
Rob / Yocom / Imagineering Finishing Tech.
PRI Staff Present
Mark / AubelePhilip / Ford
P. Michael / Gutridge
Dave / Marcyjanik
Andy / Statham
Elizabeth / Strano
1.2 Introductions
1.3 Safety Information
1.4 Reviewed Code of Ethics (Ref: Attendees’ Guide) and Meeting Conduct
1.5 The Antitrust Video was presented (only at the first open and first closed meeting of the week for each Task Group)
1.6 The Agenda was reviewed.
1.7 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes – OPEN
The minutes from June 2016 NDT Task Group meeting in London were approved as written.
Motion made by Mike Mitchell and seconded by Scott Wegener to approve the previous minutes as written. Motion Passed.
1.8 RAIL Review – OPEN
The Rolling Action Item List (RAIL) was reviewed by Liz Strano in section 8.0.
For specific details, please see the current NDT Rolling Action Item List posted at www.eAuditNet.com, under Public Documents.
2.0 REVIEW DELEGATION STATUS - CLOSED
Delegation status was reviewed by Phil Ford.
Liz Strano is still non delegated, discussed the actual numbers of audits that have been reviewed by Liz Strano. She has had no additional NCRs written against the audits that she has reviewed. It was suggested that we discuss the opportunity of allowing Liz delegation in accordance with OP 1114.
Dave Royce highlighted that Liz Strano has reviewed 96 audits and has 8 months experience with the Task Group. In order to allow full delegation, in accordance with the OP 1114 Appendix NDT, the Task Group has to vote to waive all the requirements for delegation.
Motion made by Sean Wood and seconded by Bob Rainone to approve Liz Strano for full delegation. Motion Passed.
Motion made by Steve Garner and seconded by Scott Wegener to continue delegation for all other current staff engineers.
Liz Strano requested that the Task Group allow Mike Gutridge to be a fully delegated consultant reviewer and auditor in all methods when he retires and becomes a consultant reviewer / auditor.
Motion made by Ed Holman and seconded by Sean Wood to approve Mike Gutridge to continue as a delegated reviewer and auditor for all checklists for NDT when he retires and becomes a consultant reviewer / auditor. Motion Passed.
ACTION ITEM: t-frm-99k needs to be signed by Dave Royce to approve Liz Strano as a delegated reviewer. Assigned to Liz Strano (Due Date: 25-Oct-2016)
3.0 TASK GROUP REGULAR BUSINESS ITEMS – CLOSED
Task Group Resolutions discussed by Phil Ford.
Appeal #2016-036 was brought before the Task Group, at the request of the Supplier, for review by the entire Task Group. An NCR had been raised to address specific examination questions, which were deemed by the auditor as “look up type” questions. The new specific examination was reviewed by Task Group for suitability.
Motion made by Ed Hohman and seconded by Mike Mitchel to approve the 2 specific exams, that were presented by the Supplier, as objective evidence of acceptable specific examination questions.
Discussion by Jim Graves “where do we draw the line as to how do we determine what is acceptable or not”. Scott Sullivan brought forth the question of “is this more of a consistency issue between auditors”? Jim Graves spoke to the PT question #4 provided as being more general and look up and unacceptable. Linda Beane provided guidance as to how she would look at examinations as an auditor. Scott Sullivan suggested submitting examinations to Task Group to determine its acceptability; however Kurt Rouff suggested that he has added questions to his exams just in case some get thrown out.
Results of Motion: 16 Accepted, 7 opposed, 2 abstentions. Motion Passed.
Motion made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Steve Garner to require that any future specific exam questions that have been written up by the auditor as not meeting the requirements of NAS410/EN4179 and contested by the supplier, be sent for resolution to the AC 7114 Method Group. NDT staff stated this will impact the cycle times for every audit that has specific exam issues where the supplier disagrees with the finding. 1 opposed, no abstentions. Motion Passed.
NDT Regular Business items were presented by Phil Ford.
Phil Ford identified that there is one closed Auditor Advisory for this review period.
Failed Audits & Lapsed Accreditation Metrics:
No Type C advisories issued for this review period.
One Type P advisory, #2850 has been reviewed this period.
One Type F advisory # 2832 has been reviewed this period.
No audits set to lapse this period.
4.0 NEW BUSINESS – CLOSED
Scott Sullivan and Jon Biddulph presented concerns on National Aerospace NDT Board (NANDTB) management and oversight of the certification process, Jon Biddulph has presented this request at the last two meetings pursuing an industry managed program to provide independent audit / oversight of NANDTB practices. Dave Royce questioned who is expected to pay for this oversight? Jon Biddulph suggested that it needs to be scoped out in order to establish guidelines and expenses. What is new is that the intent would be to apply this oversight to all independent contractors that provide training and examinations no matter what their geographic location.
This was previously reviewed by PRI management for consideration but they required additional information, in the form of a business plan, which this team needs to put together and formally submit.
Motion made by Steve Garner and seconded by Chris Stevenson to assemble a sub group to review the business case for this effort. Motion Passed.
Team members include Jon Biddulph (Rolls-Royce), Scott Sullivan (Honeywell), Tony Warren (Airbus), Steve Garner (Eaton Aerospace), Mitch Birzer (General Dynamics), Chris Stevenson (Rolls-Royce), Mottito Togo (Honeywell), Fabrizio Montagnoli (Leonardo Helicopters), Luigi Merletti (Leonardo Helicopters), Alain Bouchet (Safran), Philippe Beck (Airbus Helicopters), Harry Hahn (GE), Gary O’Neill (Parker), Lou Truckley (Boeing) and Jim Graves (Rolls-Royce). Staff support from Phil Ford and Liz Strano.
ACTION ITEM: Assign new Ad-Hoc team to address the oversight of NANDTB’s and Outside Agencies. Assigned to Phil Ford. (Due Date: 14-Nov-2016)
Jon Biddulph suggested to the Task Group that we may want to consider reverting to the situation where specific examinations are closed book which might also alleviate some of the issues that have been raised recently by open book specific examinations.
Dale Norwood raised a concern on going back to closed book specific examinations. He likes the fact that the current requirement asks the inspectors to look for answers rather than working from memory.
Phil Ford requested that all current auditors approved to audit AC7114/4, AC7114/6 and AC7114/8 check lists be allowed to audit the AC7114/9 check list.
Motion made by Chris Stevenson and seconded by Steve Garner to approve auditors that are currently approved for radiography to also be approved for the /9 check list. Motion Passed.
ACTION ITEM: Up date auditor profiles. Assigned to Jennifer Eckels. (Due Date: 14-Nov- 2016)
Phil Ford gave a presentation on the status of Risk Mitigation; though the process will be changing, currently none have been implemented. In accordance with OP 1110, as of January 1, 2017, staff engineers will be solely responsible for working the Risk Mitigation process. Fees will be applicable for suppliers who elect to pursue the Risk Mitigation process. Task Group Subscribers will be required to vote on Risk Mitigation resolution.
Dale Norwood requested clarification about what a major is and what a minor is. Specific to Black Light measurement the reading was recorded as 14 7/8 inches from sensor to light. The response was that the requirement is 15 inches and it wasn’t recorded as 15 inches therefore the finding would stand. No further comments were made.
Dave Royce asked Jim Fowler to share a situation on grit blast requirements. Jim Fowler advised that the situation involves an Inconel 100 casting, which had multiple grit blasts performed prior to penetrant inspection using 60 grit at 90 pounds per square inch. The Supplier in question is used by many Subscribers. Jim Fowler asked if anyone might want to join a group to discuss. May need to consider adding either new questions to the baseline check list or have Subscribers add supplemental questions.