Debating Bible Basics
a handbook for creative preaching
Duncan Heaster
Carelinks Publishing
PO Box 152, Menai NSW 2234 Australia
Introduction
Chapter 1
The Trinity
1.1 Jesus Christ And The Trinity- What Does The Bible Say?
Transcript Of A Debate (With Leslie Everitt)
1.2 “The rock that followed them”- see “The Real Christ”
1.3 “In the beginning was the word” - see “The Real Christ”
1.4 Why The Trinity Was Accepted In Europe- see “The Real Christ”
1.5 "Being in the form of God" (Phil. 2) - see “The Real Christ”
1.6 God Manifestation- see “The Real Christ”
1-7 The Use of God’s Name
1-8 “God is a Spirit” (Jn. 4:24)
1-9 The Historical Jesus
1-10 Some "Wrested scriptures”
1-10 “I came down from Heaven” (Jn. 6:33,38) - see “The Real Christ”
1-11 Did Jesus create the Earth? - see “The Real Christ”
1-12 “Before Abraham was, I am”(Jn. 8:58) - see “The Real Christ”
1-13 Melchizedek- see “The Real Christ”
1-14 Jesus' Raising Up Of Himself- see “The Real Christ”
1-15 "The glory I had with you before the world was" (Jn. 17:5) - see “The Real Christ”
Chapter 2
The Devil And Satan / Demons
2.1 The Devil And Satan – What Does The Bible Say? Transcript Of A Debate
2.2.1 Demons: A Biblical Discussion- see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-1 The Devil, Satan And Demons-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-2 Do Demons Cause Illnesses?-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-3 New Testament Casting Out Of Demons-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-4 The Language Of The Day-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-5 God Adopts A Human Perspective-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-6 Miracles And Demons-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-7 Canaanite Theology Smashed-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-8 Exorcism Of Demons-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-1-9 Case Study: Resheph-see “The Real Devil”
2-2-2 God’s Use Of Language-see “The Real Devil”
2.3 In Search Of Satan: A Consideration Of Passages Misunderstood With Relation To The Devil, Satan And Demons-see “The Real Devil”
2.3.2 The Jewish Satan-see “The Real Devil”
2.3.3 Demons: Why Didn’t Jesus Correct People?-see “The Real Devil”
2.3.4 Demons: A Suggested Brief Explanation-see “The Real Devil”
2.3.5 The Principle Of Personification-see “The Real Devil”
2.3.6 The Implications And Origins Of Belief In A Personal Satan-see “The Real Devil”
Chapter 3
The Holy Spirit
3.1 Are The Miraculous Gifts Of The Holy Spirit Possessed Today? Transcript Of A Debate (With Marie Battle)
3.2Are The Miraculous Gifts Of The Holy Spirit Possessed Today? Transcript Of A Debate (With John Liliekas)
3-3 "These signs shall follow them that believe"
3-4 “You shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38)
3-5 Calvinism
3-6 The Psychology Of Speaking In Tongues
Chapter 4
Islam
4.1 Jesus For Moslems- Introduction
4.2 Is The Bible The Unaltered Word Of God? Transcript Of A Debate (With Katherine Kullman And The Submission Organization)
Prologue: What Abraham / Ibrahim Believed About Jesus
4.3 What The Bible Says About Jesus
4.3.1 Al Masih The Birth Of Jesus
4.3.2 " Say not 'trinity'" : The Nature of Jesus
4.3.3 The Qur'an And The Death Of Jesus
4.3.4 Evidence For The Resurrection Of Jesus
4-3-4-1 The Swoon Theory
4-3-4-2 The Crucifixion Substitute Theory
4.3.5 The Qur'an And The Ascension Of Jesus
4.3.6 Islam And The Return Of Jesus
4.4 Man's Need For The Death And Resurrection Of Jesus
4.4.1 Man’s Need
4.4.2 God’s Provision
4.4.3 The Need For Baptism
4.5 The Practical Power Of The Doctrine Of Jesus
Appendices
4.6 The Qur’an Or The Bible?
4.6.1 Problems With The Qur’an
4.6.2 Problems With The Ahadith
4.6.3 Moslem Criticisms Of The Bible Answered
4.6.4 The Bible: Written By Inspiration
4.6.5 The Missing Body Of Jesus
4.7 Islamic Claims About Muhammad
4.8 Islam And Women
4.9 A Summary Of The True Christian Gospel.
Chapter 5
Judaism: Jesus For Jews
5.1 The Jewish Messiah
5-1-1 Appendix: Jesus Of Nazareth Is The Messiah Judaism Expected
5.2 The Historicity of Jesus of Nazareth
5.3 Jewish Objections To Jesus
5-3-1 Jewish Objections To The Ancestry Of Jesus
5.4 Jewish Objections To The Christian Doctrine Of Atonement
5.5 Jewish Objections To Christian Usage Of Old Testament Passages
5-5-1 Christian And Jewish Interpretation Of Isaiah 53
5-5-2 Zechariah 9: The Two Comings Of Messiah
5-5-3 Christian And Jewish Interpretations Of Isaiah 7:14
5.6 Christian And Jewish Interpretation Of Daniel 9
5.7 Miscellaneous Jewish Objections To Christianity
Chapter 6
Buddhism: Jesus For Buddhists
6.1 The Bible’s Message For Buddhists
6.2 Christianity And Buddhism: Similarities
6.3 The Difficulties Of Buddhism
6.3.1 The Question Of Authority In Buddhism
6.3.2 The Concept Of Truth In Buddhism
6.3.3 Buddha Versus Jesus
6.3.4 Buddhism And A Personal God
6.3.5 Nirvana And The Bible
6.3.6 Predestination And Buddhism
6.3.7 The Problem Of Sin In Buddhism
6.3.8 The Problem Of Suffering In Buddhism
6.3.9 “The spirits in prison”
6.4 Conclusions: What Buddhism Lacks
Chapter 7
Hinduism
7.1 The Question Of Authority In Hinduism
7.1.1 Hindu Teachings About Caste
7.1.2 Hindu Teaching About Widows
7.1.3 Hindu Teaching About God
7.1.4 Problems In The Hindu Scriptures
7. 2 God
7.2.1 " The absolute" in Hinduism
7.2.2 The Personality Of God In Hinduism
7.2.3 Vishnu And Incarnation
7.3 The Meaning Of Persons And Hinduism
7.3.1 Karma In Hinduism
7.4 Salvation In Hinduism
7.5 Hinduism And Christianity: The Practical Difference
Chapter 8
The Atonement
8.1 The Principles Of The Atonement
Transcript Of A Debate (With Ruth Sisson)
Chapter 9
The Sabbath
9.1 Should Christians Keep The Sabbath Today? Transcript Of A Debate (With Philip Bartlett)
9.2 Changing God’s ‘Eternal law’
9.7 Not To Destroy The Law But To Fulfill (Mt. 5:17)
9.8 Need Christians Keep The Dietary Laws Of Acts 15?
Chapter 10
Women In The Church.
Chapter 12
Mary: What Does The Bible Say?
12.1 Mary: A Biblical Debate
12.2 The Roman Catholic Church and the formation of the New Testament Canon
12.3 An Appeal To Roman Catholics
Chapter 13
Approaching The Orthodox Mindset
13-1 Approaching the Orthodox mindset
13-2 Authority In The Orthodox Church
13-3 The Orthodox Church And Phronema
13-4 The Nature Of Salvation In The Orthodox Churches
13-5 Orthodox Church Doctrines
13-6 Unity And Disunity In The Orthodox Churches
13-7 Barriers To Preaching To The Orthodox
Chapter 14
Miscellaneous Studies
14-1 The Justice Of God
14-2 Jesus For Unbelievers
14-3 Our Attitude To Learning Bible Truth
14-4 A Sample Baptism Service
14-5 The Level Of Knowledge Required Before Baptism
14-6 The Literality Of The Kingdom Of God
14-7 Summary Of The History Of Israel
14-8 The Destruction of Heavens and Earth (Rev. 21:1; 2 Pet. 3:6-12)
14-9 With What Nature Are We Resurrected?
14-10 British Israelism Considered
14-10-1 H.W. Armstrong's "Britsh Israelism"
14-10-2 The Brit-Am / Yair Davidiy Movement- Are Australians One Of The Lost Ten Tribes?
14-10-3 Are The Jewish People Ethnically Pure?
14-11 A Message For Former Jehovah's Witnesses
14-12 Have The Promises To Abraham Been Fulfilled?
14-13 Predestination And Freewill
14-14 Universal Resurrection?
14-15 Is Abortion Murder? What does the Bible say about terminating pregnancy?
Appendices
Appendix 1: Do Christians Need Prophets Today?
Appendix 2: Should Christians Tithe?
Appendix 3: What Is The Gospel?
Appendix 4: Speaking Through An Interpreter
Introduction
In the course of many years discussing and debating the Biblical understanding of the Gospel, a fair amount of material has been built up. This book seeks to bring much previously published material together under one cover. All true Christians are preachers, but very few are public debaters. The purpose of this material is not so much to train public debaters as to give a window on the thinking of other religious groups, and to inspire all of us in their own personal witness to God’s truth in a world of confusion and darkness. It seems to me that we should strive to know the mind and spiritual background of ones’ audience. One has to listen rather than simply seek to impart our understanding onto an open mind: for there are few open minds in this world today. We must seek to understand people and lead them on from where they are. It is not difficult to identify the misinterpretations of Bible passages which many religious people base their beliefs upon. I submit that we need to not merely have the reasons why their interpretations are inconsistent with the rest of Scripture; we need to also more positively have a personal idea what the passages they quote do mean. For it is far more powerful and helpful in the work of conversion to leave someone with a new and positive understanding of what something does mean, than to leave them with their earlier beliefs demolished or questioned, but with nothing in its place. In any case, it's rare that argument ever really changes anyone's mind. Reason is used to justify ourselves, and contrary to what we may think, reason rarely directs people in their religious beliefs. Because of this I have included after most of the debate transcripts some examples of how to positively approach people over the matter in hand, as well as some more negative comment on the difficulties which their beliefs have when compared with the rest of Scripture.
I feel particularly for young people 'raised in the truth'. They want to find their own faith, and not dumbly follow the faith of their fathers. But I wouldn’t necessarily recommend they go and visit every church in their neighbourhood in their struggle to compare their understandings against the views of others. The ‘traditional Christian’ perspectives on most of the main doctrinal areas are found well represented in this present volume. Why not read through what they have said in this transcript, and think how better I might have responded to them. And if you (or, indeed, anyone) conclude I’m just plain wrong, or made a totally inadequate response- let me know, and with open minds searching for God’s Truth, let’s discuss it.
Reading through the transcripts of the public debates, I realise how difficult it is to show the wisdom, understanding and grace of the Lord Jesus when placed ‘on the spot’ and having to give immediate responses to Biblical issues. It makes one marvel the more at His spiritual, intellectual and dialectical skill in responding so powerfully, so quickly. For me, probably for us all, after every encounter there is so much one would like to have phrased better, or reasoned the more incisively. So from my inadequacies as a debater, indeed as a preacher altogether, I dare to hope if nothing else that a lesson and encouragement can be taken. An encouraging lesson that you, too, with all your inadequacies of knowledge and personality, can go out there into your world and make a difference, make a witness for God’s Truth, and by His grace, bring others to the Hope of the Kingdom. And of course there are some things I would express differently, even think about differently, as the years have gone by. But my commitment to the essential doctrines of the Gospel remains, of course.
All too easily we can define 'preaching' as merely debating and combating theological ideas opposed to our own- with no significance placed upon the value of the person with whom we are in discussion. That person on the other side of the fence to you has, just like you, their inner traumas and struggles, their secret conflicts and dramas... and yet all this becomes hidden behind the facade of doctrinal debate and argument. It is to the person we must appeal if we are to win them for Christ, or win them closer to Him as we seek. Paul Tournier wrote eloquently of the huge gap "between intellectual relationship and personal relationship". Whenever we start to debate doctrine, impersonal ideas, this gap becomes significant. Ideas become so easily mere ammunition in a subconscious battle for self preservation. If we are to convert and help others to Jesus, rather than to ourselves, we need to find "another mode of relationship" than mere intellectual argument. Such argument alone will not convert or persuade towards the cause of Christ. And yet sadly so much of our collective preaching effort has been taken up with exactly this kind of fruitless debate. Doctrinal argument tends to divide; whereas it is the common areas of experience which tend to unite. And so a woman reaching out to other women, perhaps other young mothers, will be a far more likely cause of conversion than knocking on the doors and engaging all and sundry in doctrinal debate. But that woman, if she is to bring about an authentic conversion, must all the same convert her fellow-woman to something. And she likely will have to talk around all the host of misunderstandings and wrong ideas which her friend has been exposed to in this sadly confused and lost world. Hence this book.
I believe in all seriousness that we worldwide are God’s cutting edge for this generation. But remember, in all your debating, in all your discussions, in all your faithful upholding of the Biblical position. That it isn’t to prove you right and another wrong. Many of us wasted far too much of our time and effort in this kind of “theological gladiatorship”, to quote the words of John Thomas in later life. See the value of persons, the meaning of persons; perceive that every person matters to God. Witness to them, seek their salvation and present relationship with their creator, from the motive of a heart that bleeds for this world. If this truly is your motive, you will succeed- in glorifying our Father in Heaven and His Son and their word. For this ultimately must be our sole aim.
D.H.
The Sources of Error
There are four chief obstacles in grasping truth which hinder every man, however learned, and which scarcely allow anyone to overcome them; to whit:
· Submission to faulty or unworthy authority.
· Influence of custom; the common belief, therefore it must be correct.
· Prejudice: defence of an erroneous opinion to which one is sentimentally attached.
· Concealment of one’s own ignorance.
Every man is entangled in these difficulties Even should the first three obstacles be refuted by the convincing force of reason, the fourth is always ready as an excuse for a man’s own ignorance. Although he has no real knowledge of a matter worthy of the name, he may yet shamelessly magnify it, so that at least to the wretched satisfaction of his own folly, he suppresses and evades the truth.
Men blinded in the fog of these four errors do not perceive their own ignorance. They take every precaution to cloak and defend it so as not to find a remedy. Worst of all, although they are in the deepest shadow of error, they believe that they are in the full light of truth.
Roger Bacon
Chapter 1
The Trinity
Jesus Christ And The Trinity- What Does The Bible Say?
Transcript Of A Debate (With Leslie Everitt)
Saturday 12th November 1988
Bromley Christian Center, Masons Hill, Bromley, Kent UK
Speakers:
For the Trinitarian position: Mr. Leslie Everitt (Evangelical Christian)
For the non-Trinitarian position: Mr. Duncan Heaster (Christadelphian)
Chairman: Mr. Graham Baldwin (Bromley Christian Center)
Index:
Introduction
Mr. Heaster’s first speech: The non-trinitarian position
Mr. Everitt’s first speech: Bible evidence for the trinity. The trinitarian position
Mr. Heaster’s second speech : Bible evidence against the trinity
Mr. Everitt’s second speech: Jesus is both God and man
Questions from the floor
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR FOR MR. HEASTER
Alpha and omega
The doctrine of the Trinity
The meaning of logos
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR FOR MR. EVERITT
The Nicean Creed
Co-equal and co-eternal
Jesus is not God
Jesus as mediator
Christ and sin
Summation by Mr. Heaster: The seed of Abraham
Summation by Mr. Everitt: Ego eimi : I am he
Concluding remarks by Chairman
Introduction
CHAIRMAN:
I have been asked to point out that the Bromley Christian Center are just hosting this. They are in no way involved in either the planning or whatever to do with this debate. I was asked if we could actually find a location that was somehow local and central. That was how it came to be here. You probably know both of the people who are going to be debating the proposition : “Jesus Christ and the Trinity – What does the Bible Say?”.This is Mr. Leslie Everitt, who is an Evangelical Christian from a brethren tradition, and this is Mr. Duncan Heaster, who is a Christadelphian.
The way that this is actually going to be run will be that initially there will be a twenty minute opening speech each, with Mr. Heaster actually leading off. There will then be a second speech of ten minutes’ duration. We are then going to have a break for coffee for which there will be a charge of 20p for coffee and biscuits (but that can be sorted out later). There will also be soft drinks. Following that break there will be ten minutes of question time directed at each of the speakers, and then they will be given five to ten minutes to sum up at the end.
I would like to say that this is being recorded. You have probably seen on your seats this yellow leaflet. If you want a transcript of the debate, fill it in. There is a box there and one in the vestibule.