17Th Solar Keymark Network Meeting
17th Solar Keymark Network meeting -
2nd draft agenda – version R2
(2014-09-09, jen)
Meeting time:
Tuesday, September 30th, 2014, 13:00 - 18:15
Wednesday, October 1st, 2014, 08:15 – 14:00
Registration for the meeting:
Online registration
Deadline for registration 5th September 2014
Meeting location:
CEN-CENELEC Management Centre
4th floor: CEN-CENELEC Meeting Centre
Avenue Marnix 17
B - 1000 Brussels, Belgium
More detailed info on location:
Meeting starts: Tuesday, September 30th, 13:00
Item
/Decision/-resolution requested
/Content
/Related documents / comments / details
1 / Opening of the meeting (HD)Short welcome and some practical information by Gonzalo Piernavieja (Director - I+D+i / R&D&Innovation, ITC)
2 / Introduction of participants (All)
3 / x / Approval of the agenda (All)
4 / x / Comments to the minutes of the 15. meeting (HD / All)
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Enclosed, two comments (clarifications) from my side:
Item 8: Ulrich Fritzsche mentioned, that the performance test results out of steady state method for unglazed collectors cannot be….
Item 39.1: Furthermore…..are now part of the test requirements for Solar Keymark and soon also for SRCC certification.
Best regards
Uli
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I send comments to point 19 of the minutes of our last SKN meeting since I miss an important point we agreed upon during the meeting.
I propose to add the following text at the end of the point 19:
Some Certification Bodies present ask if it is possible to use the proposed new version of annex A1 during a trial period until the next SKN meeting of October. It is agreed that this is possible and JF will send out a revised version to the group. Using this inspection template shows evidence that all the requirements of Annex E are being evaluated since they are reflected on the check list. Using the actual version of Annex A1 it is hard to assure that the inspector is evaluating all aspects of Annex E.
Saludos cordiales,
Best regards,
Jaime FERNÁNDEZ GONZÁLEZ-GRANDA / N0240R0 pdf
5 / x / Date and place of next meeting(s) (HD)
- 18th meeting: March 10th 13:00 - 11th 14:00, 2015, Rome, Italy (Host/organiser: Vinod Sharma, ENEA)
- 19th meeting: October 6th 13:00 - 7th 14:00, 2015, Wels, Austria (Host/organiser: Harald Dener, ASiC)
6 / x / Review of Decision list/JEN
Decision D12.M11 – Certification of combined solar thermal and heat pump systems: It is a future goal of the Solar Keymark Network to extend its activities as well as the Solar Keymark certification towards combined solar thermal and heat pump systems. Responsible/actions?
- ..
7 / x / Equivalent absorber coatings equivalent absorber coatings
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No new equivalent absorber coatings (but the issue kept in the agenda as reminder for future meetings) ?
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Dear Jan Erik, we have currently an application for a new absorber coating to be tested according clause 4.7.1. Requirement 1. in clause 4.7.1 is asking for mean values of the of absorptivity and emittance of the equivalent group 1. Two identical collectors (apart from the absorber coating) are compared to verify the equality of the two coatings. The absorbers of the two collectors must be made of the same material and must have the same thickness. One of the collectors is coated with one of the
reference coatings fulfilling the following requirements: alpha ≥ mean value of alpha values in the group - 1 % point; epsilon ≤ mean value of epsilon values in the group + 1 % point. The mean value shall be given and updated each time a new member is included. The other collector is coated with the new coating.
Where can this mean value or the single values (I will be able to calculate the mean value ;-) ) be found? I could not find them in the scheme rules nor the mentioned document SKN_N0137, nor in the mentioned decisions.
Best regards, Stephan
Secretary comment: Will revised N0137 with extended tables for the values of alfa and epsilon solve the problem? JEN / N0137R10 docx
8 / x? / No new equivalent glazing (but the issue kept in the agenda as reminder for future meetings) ?
9 / x? / Discussion/approval on result presentation from testing of unglazed collectors in the Keymark datasheet./P. Kovacs? / Document(s) ?
10 / x / Proposals for priorities for SCF 6th call /All
- Round robin testing and certification of new systems (components (12977-systems and storage, controller, )
- Prepare SK scheme rules for absorber surfaces (SO/DIS 22975-3)
- …
11 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. „Changes of Solar Keymark data sheets due to ISO 9806“/HD
In all Solar Keymark data sheets issued from 01.01.2015 onwards the collector efficiency parameters shall be given related to gross area. Note: The aperture area (Aa) can be given as additional information.
12 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. „Name change of manufacturer or product”/HD
If only the name (including address and legal status) of the certificate holder is changed (but not the product itself) only a new data sheet has to be issued by the test laboratory. This data sheet substitutes the previously data sheet and may contain multiple trade names but shall only contain the information of one company and address. In this case issuing of a new test report is not required. As a prerequisite of the modifications mentioned above, a corresponding declaration of the certificate holder shall be made available to the test laboratory and the certifier.
13 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. „Testing of solar collectors with frames in different colours”/HD
If collectors differ only by the colour and coating of their frame, only one collector needs to be tested. The test results determined by the test of this collector are valid for all collectors differing only by the colour and coating of their frame from the collector tested.
The collector used for testing should be the one that has according to the manufacturer the largest market relevance.
14 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. „Determination of gross area for roof integrated collectors”
For the determination of the gross area of roof integrated collectors the part of the roof covered by the roof mounting kit surrounding the collector to prevent the ingress of water into the roof (cladding) shall not be taken into account.
15 / x / SKN Budget for 2015 and other financial issues / JEN &PD / N0245R0 pdf, N0246R0 pdf, N0247R0 pdf
16 / x / Resolution related to „Approval and exclusion of test labs by SKN“)/S. Scholz ?
Proposal how to deal with complains on test labs and inspectors (see minutes of last meeting item 16) / N0250R0 pdf
17 / x? / Improvements for organization and funding of SKN activities / J. Fernandez ?
Proposal for simple procedure
18 / x / Transition from old EN 12975-1&2 to new EN 12975-1 and new ISO 9806/ J. Fernandez
Substantiation
The testing standard EN ISO 9806 for solar collectors is to replace the older EN 12975-2. The new standard better reflects the current state of knowledge and should be supported. Unfortunately, the revision of EN 12975-1 with requirements for collectors is delayedand the current release still refers only to EN 12975-2. If EN ISO 9806 is accepted for SOLAR KEYMARK certification parallel to EN 12975-2, the data sheets will be incompatible because the performance tests are grounded on different areas. It is desirable not to prolong this ambiguous state and to set a time limit when the certificates based on EN 12975-2 tests must be replaced by new ones based on EN ISO 9806.
Proposal for Resolution
1) Document N0106_Annex_H_R0 will become a temporary Annex to the SOLAR KEYMARK Scheme Rules.2) The beginning of Article 1.2 (List of European Standards concerned) of Specific CEN Keymark Scheme Rules for Solar Thermal Products will be replaced by the following text:
“The scheme refers to the normative requirements in the following European Standards:
- EN 12975-1: Thermal solar systems and components – Solar collectors –
Part 1: General requirements
Release EN 12975-1:2006+A1:2010 is currently under revision. Wherever this standard refers to testing according to EN 12975-2, it is also understood as testing according to EN ISO 9806.
For testing and certification during this transition period, see also Annex H.
- EN 12975-2: Thermal solar systems and components – Solar collectors –
Part 2: Test methods
SOLAR KEYMARK certificates based on testing according to this standard cease to be valid on 2016-12-31 and they shall be substituted by new certificates based on EN ISO 9806 tests.
Testing according to this standard will be not accepted after 201x-12-31.
- EN ISO 9806: Solar energy – Solar thermal collectors – Test methods
Testing according to this standard is taken as equivalent for meeting all requirements of EN 12975-1, fully sufficient for SOLAR KEYMARK certification, and it should be preferred to testing according to EN 12975-2.
- EN 12976-1: Thermal solar systems and components – Factory made systems –
Part 1: General requirements
- EN 12976-2: Thermal solar systems and components – Factory made systems –
Part 2: Test methods
- …”
Proposed by Working group of SOLAR KEYMARK Certification Bodies (approved by 10 CB’s so far)
--Secretary comments:
Input from Vassiliki conc. transition from EN 12975-2 to EN ISO 98065:
Normally the transition period is established by the DoW (date of withdrawal of national standards) which is normally 6 months but it is possible (before adopting the standard) to ask for a longer DoW. Since the standard has already been published nearly a year ago this is not an option.
This is not a harmonised standard so there is no citation in the official journal and not presumption of conformity linked to its application. Since standards are voluntary a company can do what they want and use the old standard to do the test but their clients may not accept such results if they are aware that the standard being used is the old version. To sum up, they can if they want but it is not recommend to do so if there is a new standard which has been in place already for nearly a year.
Others related (JEN):
Test lab listing on the SK web: EN12975 EN 12975 & EN ISO 9806 ? / N0106_AnnexH_R0.docx
(was N0241 before)
19 / x / Proposal for decision / M.Carvalho
The Solar Keymark Network identified that a few editorial corrections are needed in ISO 9806:2003 in order to guarantee that no mistakes in testing occur when using the standard. A list of these editorial corrections is included in document SK_N0244R0. This list will be sent to ISO TC180 Secretariat in order to submit a request for amendment to the standard with the necessary corrections. Testing Laboratories using the standard ISO 9806:20013 shall consider these corrections when testing.” / N0244R0 doc
20 / x / PROPOSAL FOR RESOLUTION OF NEW VERSION OF ANNEX E AND ANNEX A / J. Fernandez
As we agreed at the last SKN meeting I would write to the whole group with information regarding point 19 of the agenda. Therefore I send attached both documents that will be presented for resolution at the next SKN October meeting:
- Proposal for resolution SKN n 106 Annex A2 R.3
- This document only changes from the actual version in the fact that the physical inspection template has been removed. Therefore it stays as a procedure for the physical inspection
- Proposal for resolution SKN n 106 Annex A1 R.1
- The inspection has been adapted to comply with requirements of Annex E taking into consideration a ‘trial’ year of 2013
- It has a lego-type structure that includes:
- Front page
- FPC inspection report
- Sample taking sheet
- Physical inspection report
- Final page
- It has taken into consideration many inputs and it means to be useful to all of us
The list I show bellow is the working group we established some time back for requirements of Annex E. Speaking with some members of the working group, we would like to also review specific requirements for products under EN 12976 and EN 12977 and might take another look at the tables of Annex E. Please send me an email if you wish to join this group and help develop these documents(or if you are not interested in participating anymore).
Members of working group for development of Annex E- Factory Production Control:
Alberto Garcia de Jalon, Carsten Lampe, Christian Stadler, Francois Xavier Ball, Franz Helminger, Henry Rosik, Jaime Fernandez Gonzalez-Granda, Ralf Koebbemann-Rengers, Reuven Godali, Stefan Mehnert, Stephan Fischer, Ulrich Fritzsche
Related correspondance Stephan Fisher & Henry Rosik:
Henry Rosik – response to Stehans Fischers mail below:
Dear Stefan,
Thank you for informing us about your conclusions. The message is clear – it probably has no sense to try to push through the proposal if it is not properly ‚sold‘ to SKN members and particular groups and agreed or understood by them.
Still, let me shortly react to your five reasons of rejection:
1) Joining the reports
You may be right. I can imagine one document (with Part A and Part B, each of them filled out only when necessary) or two separate documents. The sense was to save some work when you do both checks at the same time and to unify the documents. – Not a big issue.
2) Integration of Annex E
No benefit???
Please, which of the clauses of Annex E, different from Annexes A1/A2 or extending them, are of ‚no benefit‘ or wrong?
Which of the particular checks listed in chapters 4.3 and 4.4 are of no benefit or superfluous?
Or probably chapter 7 about traceability – which is apparently missing in the current inspection checklists?
Of course, the whole Annex E can be re-discussed, updated – or even not accepted as binding or withdrawn.
But no such comment has officially come from anybody (including the German-speaking labs) so far.
Have they read it carefully and are they aware of the differences between Annex E and A-annexes?
The limited applicability of Annex E for storage tanks, etc., should be of course discussed – but shouldn’t be a reason for its rejecting.
3) Quantification of assessments
I agree, I would personally prefer a scale (A – E or 0 – 10).
4) Missing guidelines
I agree.
5) Frequent revisions.
I agree that changing forms and/or rules is unpleasant and means an extra-work.
But I don’t agree that there are no reasons for an update and using the existing templates is so „succesfull“ and smooth.
- I used it for a plant of a big company. The company itself was OK; 9001-certified, well documented system, procedures working – but all this was only partly applied in the inspected plant. The assessment of the company (applicant for certification) and the plant would be very different.
Then, traceability of production – practically none. And the Inspection Report template does not care. No question about it!
Then, existence of many kinds of reports is checked not directly but only through their ‚storing for three years‘ (section 9 of A1) – which enables different assessments (if I store for 2.5 years, do I have nine non-conformities? Is one not enough?).
I could add some other comments… but let me finish with one pointing back to point 2: The existing templates do not reflect the ‚new‘ requirements of Annex E.
Regards Henry
--
Stephan Fischer:
Dear Jaime,
the German speaking test labs (alltogether 8 test labs from Austria, Swizerland and Germany) discussed your proposal during their yearly meeting related to inspections within the current Solar Keymark Scheme and the upcoming GSC Scheme.
Being the chairman of this experiance exchange circle I was appointed to let you know well in advance of the next SKN meeting that all 8 test labs reject your proposal and will vote against your proposal due to the following reasons:
- Joining the two reports (factory inspection and physical inspection report) does not make sense because both inspections are not always performed at the same time. Also in case of multiple physical inspections when single pysical inspection reports are needed the document can not be used.
- The integration of Annex E „Factory Produktion Control based on ISO 9001 standard covering the production line” is of no benefit. In addition it is not applicable for all collectors and also not for storage tanks and controller.
- The questions regarding the quality management system have been simplified to such an extend that they leave large space for interpretation (e.g. 2.1 Genaral: yes/no)
- There is no guide line available for the new report sheet as there is for the existing ones.
- The factory inspection and physical inspection reports have been allready revised and two years and are used successful ever since. A new revision leads to significant additional work for the auditors that have already worked with the templates.
Best regards Stephan / SKN_N0106_AnnexA1_R1.docx
SKN_N0106_AnnexA2_R3.docx
21 / x / Proposal for a resolution conc. more specified requirements for changing the certification body /S.Scholz / N0249R0 pdf
22
23 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. classification of collectors/JEN et al
Proposal for resolution
Classes for solar radiation / ambient temperature:
Exposure-, internal thermal shock- and external thermal shock test for Solar Keymark Certification shall be done according to Class B (or higher if wanted by manufacturer) of EN ISO 9806:2013 / SKN_N0233R0.
Classification of collector with respect to solar radiation / ambient temperature shall be reported in data sheet as:
“Collector suited for locations with maximum annual horizontal irradiation < xxxx”
where xxxx is:
SKN_N0233R0 / EN ISO 9806:2013 Climate class B: 1600 kWh/m²
SKN_N0233R0 / EN ISO 9806:2013 Climate class A: 2000 kWh/m²
SKN_N0233R0 Climate class A+: No limit
Classes for positive mechanical load (snow load):
Positive mechanical load test for Solar Keymark Certification shall be done according to Class B (or higher if wanted by manufacturer) of SKN_N0233R0.
Classification of collector with respect to positive mechanical load / snow load shall be reported in data sheet as:
“Collector suited for locations with maximum positive mechanical load conditions < pppp”
where pppp is:
SKN_N0233R0 class B: 2400 Pa
SKN_N0233R0 class A: 3800 Pa
SKN_N0233R0 class A+: 5400 Pa
Classes for negative mechanical load (wind load):
Negative mechanical load test for Solar Keymark Certification shall be done according to Class B ( (or higher if wanted by manufacturer) of SKN_N0233R0.
Classification of collector with respect to mechanical load shall be reported in data sheet as:
“Collector suited for locations with maximum negative mechanical load conditions < nnnn”
where nnnn is:
SKN_N0233R0 class B: 1600 Pa
SKN_N0233R0 class A: 2400 Pa
SKN_N0233R0 class A+: 3000 Pa
Classes for impact resitance:
Impact resistance test for Solar Keymark Certification shall be done according to Class C (or higher if wanted by manufacturer) of SKN_N0233R0.
Classification of collector with respect to impact resistance shall be reported in data sheet as:
“Collector suited for locations with maximum hail diameter < yy”
where yy is:
SKN_N0233R0 class C: 15 mm
SKN_N0233R0 class B: 25 mm
SKN_N0233R0 class A: 35 mm
SKN_N0233R0 class A+: 44 mm
Example/illustration of class indication for a collector just fulfilling the Solar Keymark requirements:
“Collector suited for locations with maximum annual horizontal irradiation of < 1600 kWh/m²”
“Collector suited for locations with maximum positive mechanical load conditions < 2400 Pa”
“Collector suited for locations with maximum negative mechanical load conditions < 1600 Pa”
“Collector suited for locations with maximum hail diameter < 15 mm” / N0233.R0, N0248.R0
24 / x? / Proposal for a decision / Andreas Bohren
Requirements and a general strategy on how these requirements can be implemented with respect to the elaboration of a: “Completely correct and “nice” Solar Keymark data sheet for solar collectors (flat plate and ETC)” /A. Bohren
The data sheet formats for collectors as given in document SKN_N0106_AnnexB1_Rx.y shall be used from 201y-mm-dd. / SKN_N0106_AnnexB1_Rx.y.xlxs
25 / x / Proposal for a decision / JEN
The data sheet formats for systems – valid for both EN12976 and EN12977 systems, stores and controllers – document names:
- SKN_N0106_AnnexB2_R3.4-system
- SKN_N0106_AnnexB3_R0.4-store
- SKN_N0106_AnnexB4_R0.4-controller
Note: Files can be downloaded from from: / SKN_N0106_AnnexB2_R3.4-system.xlsx
SKN_N0106_AnnexB3_R0.4-store.xlsx
SKN_N0106_AnnexB4_R0.4-controller.xlsx
26 / x / SKN Economy / JEN & PD
- SKN fees 2015, budget for 2015 and other financial issues
27 / Solar Certification Fund Projects – General Status Reports/PD / Documents?
28 / Global certification update / JEN / Documents?
29 / Initial proposal for “Fundamental new database that can also be used for the generation of data sheets” – for discussion/JEN / Documents?
30 / Update on plans for Round Robin testing of systems/components/?
31 / CE marking of collectors / S. Fischer? / A. Bohren?
- General update
- Use of existing Solar Keymark collector tests for CE-marking (CPR)
32 / Energy labelling / Gv Amerongen?
- General update
- Use of existing Solar Keymark system tests for Energy labelling (EcoDesign)
33 / Reporting from:
- “Certification Body Group” / Sören Scholz
- “Inspection Group” /Jaime Fernandez
34 / Reactivation of PVT group - and call for new members /Uli Fritzche
35 / Information from CEN TC 312 / Panayis Konstantinidis?
36 / Information from CEN/CCB /H. Liauw?
- Status for outsourcing the Keymark
- Status for globalisation of Keymark
37 / Presentations of selected SCF project results /SCF project managers
Project / Contractor / Presentation topic
5C5.1-TC312WG_SPF / Andreas Borhen / Presentation of Short summary reports of the WG1 meetings
5C8.1-EPBD_vAConsult / Gerard van Amerongen / Presentation of Excel tool revised Fchart method and Excel tool new hourly method
5C4.1-LiasTC117-ITW / Stephan Fischer / Presentation the work of the liaison officer who will follow the work going on in the IEC/TC117
4C08-RR12977_IfEP / Christian Weissmueller / Presentation of the final results of a Round Robin Test of a solar water heater store according to EN 12977-3 and performance predictions of a complete solar water heating system according to EN 12977-2.
4C06-SK-12976 / Danjana Theis / Presentation of the harmonized conditions, corrected QAiST RR results, final data sheet generator, manual, round robin results with data sheet generator.
2C06-SysIndoor-ITW / Stephan Fischer / Presentation of the results of an indoor test procedure for factory made systems according to EN12976
38 / Experience with misuse of Solar Keymark - exchange of information
39 / Any other business
…
40 / Important/interesting national news/developments
…
41 / End of meeting /HD
Meeting ends Wednesday, October 1st , 14:00
Meeting duration