Transcripts of Carl Rogers' Therapy Sessions
Edited by Barbara T. Brodley and Germain Lietaer
Volume 17
Year Page
Mary interview before a group 1986 2
Commentary & discussion 23
Louise interview before a group 1986 49
Commentary & discussion 60
Steve interview before a group 1986 63
Commentary & discussion 77
Lydia 1st interview before a group 1986 92
Commentary 104
Lydia 2nd interview before a group 1986 105
Commentary 112
These transcripts are available for purposes of research, study and teaching. They may not be sold.
Throughout these interviews the responses of the therapist (T) (Rogers), and the client (C) are numbered for easy reference.
Rogers’ Transcripts, Volume17, Contents, page 1
This transcript is available for purposes of research, study and teaching. It may not be sold.
Throughout this interview the responses of the therapist (T) (Rogers), and the client (C) are numbered for easy reference.
Carl Rogers interviews Mary “Witch” -1986
Person-Centered Workshop, LaJolla, California
T: Now that everybody's settled and the mikes are on and so on, I'd like to be quiet for a minute or two and kind of get myself ready for our interview. So I'd like to just be quiet for a minute or two; maybe you'd like that too.
C: Fine.
T: O.K. I've gotten to know some of the people in the workshop a little bit, but I really haven't had any contact with you at all so, at least not that I'm aware of. So uh, I don't know you, and I'm looking forward to knowing you and whatever you'd like to talk about I'm very ready to listen to.
C1: (C sighs) (15 second pause) (C sighs) Well, I guess, mm, the thing for me to talk about now is where I am, where I've come to in this workshop. I keep wanting to look at my, my latest drawings up there.
T1: Uhm, hmm.
C2: Um uh, when I came in to the first level I, I had a sense that um, that I ... was sleeping, um.
T2: Uhm, hmm.
C3: In my life. Like I've come to a point in my life where that I thought I had wanted to get to um, in clearing out a lot of negativity that I had around me and a lot of patterns and uh I feel like I've done a lot of that but it's but it's not like I thought it would be. Now I'm in a place that I, I feel like I'm ready to create my life but I don't know how to do it. I don't have the models to do it.
T3: Uhm, hmm.
C4: And um, in my drawings I, I, I’ve worked through that to the point where I feel like um I'm ready to, I'm ready to blossom and to do that somehow.
T4: Uhm, hmm.
C5: Um...
T5: Sounds like you cleared away a lot of the rubbish. Now, what are you going to build there?
C6: Yeah, right. I, I think, I think, I still have certain blocks about um, on, on my own power.
T6: Yeah, mmm.
C7: And um, whatever that connection is that I want with my, my deeper self or my truer self.
T7: Uhm, hmm.
C8: I, I feel like uh, my life in the world has been um, it's been strange. It's hard for me to talk about it because I always feel like, like it's different from what other people have experienced or like uh, um, like I'm trying to get to a different place too.
T8: They might not understand because whatever you're after is something that perhaps other people aren't trying for, that they wouldn't really recognize what it is you're, you're trying to do for yourself.
C9: Yeah, right. I don't see models around me for it.
T9: Uhm, hmm Uhm, hmm So whatever you're trying to create, there really is no model for that. It's something, something different.
C10: That's, that's what I feel like. (C clears throat) I mean, it may be it may be there but I'm not recognizing it.
T10: Yes.
C11: Or, I mean I wonder if I still have a block that's keeping me from recognizing it.
T11: Uhm, hmm.
C12: Or if I just don’t know how to create the model.
T12: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm.
C13: For it.
T13: Uhm, hmm.
C14: So...
T14: But you feel as though something is sort of holding you back from getting started? Is that...? (8 second pause)
C15: Yeah, I, I've had a lot, I've dealt a lot with um, being in this world and um, and, and resisting it because it's such a bizarre world.
T15: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm.
C16: Um, the society is so bizarre and um, you see, now it's hard for me to talk about it because I start getting into all that, levels of uncertainty about what, what, what is my truth and then what is around me.
T16: Uhm, hmm.
C17: It's like those all got mixed together.
T17: Uhm, hmm. And you're not quite sure whether you want to be in this crazy world.
C18: Well, I've come to the point where I accept that I do. I, I feel like I'm at the point now where I, I want to um, to express myself, to be myself, and to be of service.
T18: Uhm, hmm.
C19: And, and, and to do that, I have to find my, what is my truth, my, whatever that is, is what my service will be about.
T19: So, “What, what is the way that I want to be of service in this world, strange and bizarre as it is?”
C20: Well, I feel like that involves being in touch with (C clears throat) myself, my...
T20: Mmm, mmm..
C21: (C sighs) Um, I don't know if I even want to say my higher self, I don't know if it's an ...
T21: You want to be close to your inner truth, whatever it is.
C22: Yeah, yeah. And um (C sighs) I don't know, it’s always been just uh, I think that's what my life's about, finding out how to do that. It's just very difficult for me.
T22: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm.
C23: Uh, there's been a lot of fear around that and I I'm dealing with that but there's still a lot of sense of, um, of being vulnerable.
T23: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm..
C24: And um, being being easily um, squashed.
T24: Uhm, hmm.. So to creep out into the world, that's a very dangerous procedure because you're vulnerable. You might be squashed. It's frightening.
C25: (C sighs) (3 second pause) And then too, I think too, it's, it's also the sense of not being valued. Like what I value so much about myself, to put that out and um, have it be invisible to others because they don't see the value in it or they don't connect with it, um.
T25: Uhm, hmm.. I, I got a sense that you feel uh, kind of alone in that, not at all sure that anyone else would value what, what you might see as the way you want to be. (10 second pause)
C26: Yeah, there is a lot of that, there is a lot. I, I have been a very solitary person.
T26: Uhm, hmm.
C27: And very independent because I have not wanted to be dependent on that kind of approval from the world.
T27: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm.
C28: But yet, on the other hand, I think I am.
T28: But I guess there is a real question, “Does this world have any place for me? For somebody that's solitary, that's different?” (5 second pause)
C29: Right. Right. I, I have. I've felt that the only way that I can really have anything to give or be of service is, (C sighs) I have to change myself somewhat to f-, to fit what others can perceive and make use of, you know? To fit into others, somewhat into the framework and the values and that kind of thing, in... the world.
T29: I don’t know whether I'm hearing that correctly, but it sounds as though you feel, “I've got to somehow fit their concepts of what I should be.” Or, “I've got to fit in somehow.”
C30: Right, or other people's perceptions or expectations of what they need. I, yeah, the sense that I, I have to change it somehow. That there's not the room to really explore and find out where I am, and so what is the value of that to, to then...
T30: So that you're quite sure there's no room really for the real you. You’ve got to modify that a little bit to fit what people expect.
C31: C sighs) Yeah, yeah.
T31: Uhm, hmm.
C32: I don't know. When when I hear it said, it sounds a little bit like ego. But maybe it, maybe it is that, but um, I don't know. No, I feel like it comes from a deep, a deeper fear.
T32: Uhm, hmm. So, it sounds like to me a very real feeling that you're not quite sure there is any place for the real you. You've got to shape it a little bit and fix it a little to fit what other people are looking for, or could understand.
C33: Right. (5 second pause) And I think maybe in that real me, maybe this is ... uh yeah, I think this is also it, that there, that the real me is not necessarily perfected and, and while there is a lot of power and a lot of um, energy and um, and goodness and um, truth and beauty and all that, there's also a side that that is not perfected.
T33: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm. So you don’t --
C34: And, and that I'm afraid. And that I'm, (C sighs) I'm afraid of putting that out uh, uh, um, I'm afraid of having that condemned. And um, and I, I also think I'm afraid of the the power of that too.
T34: Uhm, hmm..
C35: And uh, and I know, on a spiritual level that I've looked at this, I'm, I'm afraid of, um (C sighs) I'm afraid of creating any more karma with that, is, is what it is. That of, of the backlash that's going to come back on it, um, like I've done that. I'm aware of having misused what I am, my power, and uh, and I'm aware that there's a part of it that I don't know how to use properly and...
T35: Uhm, hmm.. So there's no...
C36: And that has consequences.
T36: Uhm, hmm.
C37: And uh...
T37: So there's no question about the strength of the inner power that you have. That, that you're sure of. But to let it out in its imperfect state, “Wow, that's dangerous.”
C38: Right. I, I don't even know if I have the right to do that actually.
T38: Uhm, hmm.. Because it's so powerful?
C39: Because I don't, um, because I'm not sure of being able to use it properly without...
T39: I see.
C40: ...hurting others or doing something that that will not be...
T40: Not, not only imperfect in itself, it might have imperfect consequences. It might harm or not really be always helpful.
C41: Right. And I'm afraid of harming myself as well as others.
T41: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm..
C42: I, I guess I'm afraid of my own power.
T42: Uhm, hmm. I get a sense of that, that you're, you're a reservoir of enough power that, that means that, “God, what does it mean? It could be dangerous. It could be hurtful. It could be marvelous, but, but it's not perfect.”
C43: Yeah. I'm aware that it has been dangerous.
T43: Uhm, hmm.
C44: That I have used it that way.
T44: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm.
C45: I feel that um, my some of my fears with that and the prohibitions and the controls and I, uh, the way in which I'm trying to grapple with it uh, has religious connections.
T45: Uhm, hmm.
C46: Um, I think maybe that the fear comes more from the religious connections than from the spiritual connections. Uh, and I, and by that I mean my sense of having um, (C sighs) I, I don't know. I feel like I'm getting into a heavy area and, (20 second pause). (C sighs) well, I got images of, of like being a witch and being um...
T46: Uhm, hmm. Uhm, hmm.
C47: ...being (5 second pause) condemned for that.
T47: Uhm, hmm.
C48: For, for being what my power is and yet having it um, uh, with, with its own integrity, you know? I mean, it is what it is and if it's imperfect. That is what it is.
T48: So it might come out pure and, and really what it is, “But my gosh, that might be, that might be a witch.”
C49: Right.
T49: A witch would be condemned by everybody.
C50: Yeah.
T50: Or a lot of people.
C51: And not in, not in just a, a moral way but in a, a life and death way.
T51: Uhm, hmm, uhm, hmm. You might in some very real sense be condemned to death for being the power that you are.
C52: Uhm, hmm. Yeah. Right, and so I think all those fears, now, now as I talk about them, are really more uh, physical and emotional than they are a sense of like...
T52: That they're what?
C53: They're real physical. They're on a survival level.
T53: Uhm, hmm.
C44: Um...
T54: “I don't want to be killed!”
C55: Yeah. So I think they're, you know, they're kind of ingrained in my subconscious and it holds me back, or or whatever it is. I mean wherever those patterns are that um, I can't consciously deal with.
T55: Part of, part of the real block is, "If I let my power loose into the world, I might be killed for that" (20 second pause)
C56: (C sighs) Or something horrible. In a way it's a little more nameless than that.
T56: Yeah, O.K. Something terrible.
C57: And and so it's a little more unknown and that's even a little worse.
T57: Uhm, hmm.. “It might lead to some terrible fate for me.” (10 second pause)
C58: Right. And then there's, there's also the sense in it of... of being so wrong. I mean, of being puzzled at that. How could something that is so me be so wrong?
T58: Uhm, hmm, uhm, hmm.
C59: And so unacceptable and have consequences that are so surprisingly, um, (C sighs)
T59: “How could it be that the real true inner me could have such awful fateful consequences,” perhaps? “Could that really be?” That seems a real puzzle.
C60: Right. Or, or could just be so wrong.
T60: Yeah.
61C: Could, could be in a way so, yeah, so wrong.
T61: Yeah. Uhm, hmm. “If I let out the real inner me, how could that possibly be so wrong?” (12 second pause)
C62: Yeah. Yeah. So, so I have a a real sense of, of really wanting to embrace my, my own truth and my, my own connections and my, my whole self. Which is uh, you know, a big, huge expansive self and has a lot of connections of all kinds.
62T: Uhm, hmm, uhm, hmm.
C63: Um, both earthy and spiritual.