Time Saver Compound
Model T Ford Forum: Forum (old): By Russell Day (Rwday) on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 06:38 am:
In response to an inquiry regarding babbit,I mentioned the use of a product called Time Saver lapping compound. The reply e-mails I got wanting to know where to get it are getting to be more than I am able to keep up with so I have been redirecting the inquiries here. I am going to attempt to upload an instruction sheet from inside a can of time saver as well as an out of date (1998) price list. These two documents should answer most of the questions I've had reguarding use and where to get it. I hope the upload goes through but might need to enlist the help of one of you who knows more about doing this than I do. In case it doesn't work out, here is the name of the manufacturer.
MICRO SURFACE CORPORATION
8820 152nd NE
Redmond, Wa 98052-3535
(425)885-3221 or fax (425) 881-3312
You must specify "Yellow" grade or mention the intended use as they also make a compound (Green grade) for hard metals like steel.
For those of you who are reading about this for the first time go back and read my response under the heading "is there anyone out there who sells babbit?" originally dated Dec. 31 2002 to get up to speed.
I first heard about it from a guy in my area who's wife said it was either she goes or the T's go! Well, I guess he figured that there was some reason that the old T's had been around for so long and weighed the pros/cons and now has a nice sideline business keeping all sorts of T's running, including the one his girlfriend drives the hell out of. He learned of time saver from an "old Timer" he was talking to and he talked about this stuff he had had kicking around his shop for the last 50+ years or so that was "just the thing" for lapping babbit. I guess Steve tried it and loved it and fortunately for the rest of us, found out that it is still made!
Steve asked me if I had been working my motor over and asked if I had checked the bearing clearances yet and also shared the information about time saver. I checked my motor I had recently paid $300.00 to have babbited and align bored. For something that should have been perfect, it was anything but! Alignment wasn't and as for bearing/journal contact the crank was bound up beyond belief. I blued the bearings and couldn't believe my eyes. There are four grades of time saver ranging from very coarse to very fine. I purchased 1lb. cans uf all four grades and used each grade.
I lost several shims in the process but when I was done I had 100% bearing when I blued and .0015 clearance upon completion verified by plastiguage. I oiled the journals, tourqued the mains and when I spun the crank it spun like the mains were packed in KY Jelly! The engine sat on the stand for several days and it seemed like every chance I got I'd give it a spin just to marvel at it. Such an improvement over what I started with.
The product comes as a dry powder that you mix with light oil to a thin paste. I went through a potload of 3in1, dixie cups, and popsicle sticks. You spread it across the bearing, lay the crank in it, put the cap on, slide the bolts in, tighten the nuts finger tight and rotate the crank at slow rpms by hand. Time Saver is a "self deminishing" product. It literally destroys itself as it does its work. Similar to taking a grain of wheat and grinding it into flour. As you rotate you can "feel" the product break down (the caps get loose), at this point you stop and take the nuts up by hand again and continue to grind.
I wont lie to you, the sound it makes goes against all conventional thought when you are going through the process and the sight of the grey goo oozing forth as the oily time saver is forced from the caps (paper towels... lots of them) shows what is happening. The use of blueing is not really necesary because as the high spots are "ground" away they appear as being dull grey and the low spots remain shiny. When you get to the point where you have both halves of your bearing dull grey you can blue, clean, lay your plastiguage across the crank, put the cap on, replace the bolts,nuts,etc. Torque down the caps (do not turn crank!) dissasemble and check your plastiguage and determine what you need to remove in terms if shims.
Do not worry about the finished surface of the bearing not being shiny. You should be able to achieve a perfect .0015 clearance between the nain journal and the bearing. This clearance is filled at all times with a film of oil so there really is no direct contact between bearing surface and journal. The gap is mostly there for heat expansion to prevent things from binding up when things warm up. This is why knocking and slapping are louder on a cold engine upon start up.
If you are doing one engine, do not buy the 1lb. can. For as much as I used I cannot detect too noticeable a difference in the level of the can. If you get your babbit reamed for a .0015 fit and you do your blueing and its pretty close, just get the fine grade, pull a shim and start at that point. I could have been able to do my basket case easily with a set of their three oz. cans of product and had plenty left over. The three Oz. cans sell in the set of four only but you can get all of one grade or two of one two of another,etc., etc.
This product was developed in 1919 and was widely used up until the time manufacturers stopped useing poured bearings. This I believe is how it fell into obscurity, the reason it survives today is largely due to the fact that the U.S. Navy has it written into their specs that all sleeve and poured bearings be run in with "Time Saver Compound". With the exception of a select few people in the know, this product has had no representation in this hobby which has so much need to thoroughly exploit it to its potential. I hope that the Information I share with you now is information you will covet and run with.
Lastly, I saw a post from a fellow who had asked if it was all right to use velve lapping compound to accomplish the same thing. The answer is a flat out NOOOOOO! Babbit is soft, valve grinding compound contains carborundum which will do a really really fast job of lapping in babbit but will continue its evil even after you thought you cleaned it it out because it will imbed itself in the babbit and plow itself into the crank journal.
Time Saver does not imbed itself into the babbit as it is softer than the babbit. It does its job through mechanical interferance and obliterates itself in the process.
By the way, the guys over at Micro Surface Corp. don't have any idea that they have just had someone spill the beans on them that they just regained a market that they lost probebly fifty years ago so if you do business with them, mention that you are using thier product on your model T Ford. I also used the product on some reproduction cam bearings to fit up a reground cam. it also works on bronze and aluminumn in case you were wondering what else you could use it on. Hmmm, transmission bushings, noisy timming gears, etc, etc.
Would love to hear any feedback that anyone has regarding use of this product, let me know what you think. I will be the first to tell you that I won't give out a compliment on something unless I feel that it is deserved. If I weren't so tired right now I would continue to ramble about it but I would hope by now that I have made my points .
UPLOAD DID NOT TAKE FOR THE POST, HAD AN ERROR. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR SCANNED IMAGES ONTO THIS SITE? E-MAIL ME
By Russell Day (Rwday) on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 06:47 am:
Hey website administrator, ever consider getting a "spell checker" for poor guys doing posts that are really long and done in the wee hours of the morning? I just re-read this thing, holey snokes! 2 L8 2 change it now i gus. o'wel.