LegalCiteM TC
Date: November 4, 2015
Time: 10:00 a.m. EST; 5:00 p.m. EST (Pacific)
In attendance: D. Bennett, Dann, Heywood, Joergenson, Larrington, Lupescu, Knapp, Neuren, Niedringhaus, Palmirani, Parisse, Tabone, Vitali
1. Jane Larrington will chair the executive documents sc.
2. Discussed the beginnings of a technical solution.
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/legalcitem/FundamentalRequirements3rd
Vocabulary most important part
Locator: immediately useable information
Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings button
anonymous morphed into Melanie Knapp
anonymous morphed into Michael Neuren
Melanie Knapp: Hello! Please track your attendance: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/legalcitem/event.php?event_id=40963
Melanie Knapp: Kris, have you called in yet? I seem to be by myself and I'm wondering if I mis-dialed?
anonymous morphed into Monica Palmirani
Kris Niedringhaus: I called the number in the calendar notice and on the website but it says it changed (it must be the old number) however, I didn't get the new number b/c the recording broke off. Do you have it?
Michael Neuren: U.S. - (641) 715-3822
Luxembourg - +352 20 30 12 04
France - +33 7 55 50 02 40
Italy - +39 081 006 0876
Japan - +81 3-5050-6424
UK - +44 330 998 1214
Access code: 226 238
Melanie Knapp: (641) 715-3822. Access code: 226 238
Kris Niedringhaus: Thank you Michael...and Melanie
Fabio Vitali: hello
Melanie Knapp: Italy call in: +39 081 006 0876
Fabio Vitali: calling in now
Melanie Knapp: Great!
Melanie Knapp: @Everybody: the calendar notices were all sent before the number changed. The calendar notices through this year are all going to have the wrong number. I will send a separate email reminder before each meeting with the correct number.
Fabio Vitali: Melanie, for your information, there was an objection from OASIS as to specify access codes in event calls, since these documents are public and trolls have been known to disrupt calls
Melanie Knapp: @Fabio, you mean don't put it in the chatroom?
Monica Palmirani: I am not able to enter in the call
Fabio Vitali: no in the mail message
Monica Palmirani: using the Italian number
Monica Palmirani: I am not able to enter
Fabio Vitali: why?
parisse: Hello, could I have the number for Belgium ?
Melanie Knapp: @parisse, I don't have belgium, I have luxembourg and france! did you have a belgium number before?
parisse: yes
Melanie Knapp: @parisse, i will need to ask chet to assign one for belgium. i'll email him now.
parisse: depending on my location, Belgium or Luxembourg. Today it is Belgium
Fabio Vitali: Veornique, could you try the old number? The Italian number did not change
Monica Palmirani: I am now in the chat
Monica Palmirani: if you cut and past the 226 238 the system take only 26238 instead of 226238. Pay attention.
Fabio Vitali: ok
Melanie Knapp: Can we take a vote to make Jane Larrington chair of exec docs sc? I haven't posted a vote. let's see if we can get enough voters on this call.
Daniel Bennett: +1
John Joergensen: Seconded!
John Joergensen: Aye!
Melanie Knapp: All ayes on the call.
Fabio Vitali: http://akresolver.cs.unibo.it/examples/ECLI.html
Fabio Vitali: https://wiki.oasis-open.org/legalcitem/FundamentalRequirements3rd
anonymous morphed into Catherine Tabone
parisse: it is ok
Fabio Vitali: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#page-25
Daniel Bennett: definitional. hard to force external creators from using different methods to cite
Daniel Bennett: important that each time, it must be true and machine readable.
Daniel Bennett: however, I would step away from using POOR, as that may be a cultural or organizational choice.
Daniel Bennett: and using resolvers creates problems. Should that be considered a POOR thing to do?
Daniel Bennett: @Fabio missing in all of this is who is creating a citation. almost by definition, it is by an external party. (I have proposed a self citation in original and authentic documents to help external parties.)
Daniel Bennett: What about a machine that speaks... machine readable language?
Monica Palmirani: Can you put an example here Fabio?
Fabio Vitali: http://akresolver.cs.unibo.it/ecli/ECLI:DE:BVerwG:2015:150915B9KSt2.15.0&action=resolve
Melanie Knapp: Some URIs of judgments
/ecli/ECLI:DE:BVerwG:2015:150915B9KSt2.15.0
/akn/de/judgment/entscheidung/BVerwG/2015-09-30/B1B42-15-0
/akn/de/judgment/entscheidung/BVerwG/2013-12-12/U2C49-11-0/deu@.pdf
/ecli/ECLI:DE:BVerwG:2015:140915B4B16.15.0/deu@.pdf
/akn/de/judgment/entscheidung/BVerwG/2015-09-28/B4BN22-15-0
/akn/de/judgment/entscheidung/BVerwG/2015-10-08/B3B54-15-0/deu@.pdf
Fabio Vitali: http://akresolver.cs.unibo.it/ecli/ECLI:DE:BVerwG:2015:150915B9KSt2.15.0&action=debug
Daniel Bennett: @Fabio on the PDF version the resolver did not allow for a page reference in the PDF. If it had been a URL you could have referenced a page or your resolver should have done it. (e.g. #page=10 )
Daniel Bennett: @Fabio We differ. And data validation for URIs is bad
Daniel Bennett: in quiet place
Daniel Bennett: URIs that are parsed have leading zero issues and escaped issues
Daniel Bennett: HTML has allergies to non-domain URIs. mailto and href good. URNs yikes
Daniel Bennett: URIs that are not mailto, href etc means that they are not: unique, parsable, etc
Daniel Bennett: might as well use multiple fields instead of a string. that allows for data validation
Daniel Bennett: FRBR... got it
Daniel Bennett: manifestations etc,
Daniel Bennett: hmmm
Daniel Bennett: but a series of fields like CSL is better than strings
Daniel Bennett: POST to a form. allows for data validation and good errors.
Daniel Bennett: resolvers for strings have all and more problems
Kris Niedringhaus: I have a meeting so must leave the call.
Melanie Knapp: @Kris, ok. We will wrap up soon and take this up again in two weeks.
Daniel Bennett: OK. @Fabio
Fabio Vitali: goo-gl works, tiny url work,
Fabio Vitali: they all work
Monica Palmirani: the resolver is good also for resolving the references to the best option for the lawyer/legislator/judge
Daniel Bennett: and Microdata with multiple key pairs work to... and a locator to boot.
Monica Palmirani: examples: on time, jurisdiction, renumbering of the fragments
Melanie Knapp: Fabio says we are at a critical juncture. The building block. Suggestions for working together to get this right...
Daniel Bennett: and URLs can have multiple fields: §ion=3;$subsection=b
Monica Palmirani: In legal domain the section_3 is different in t1 and in t2
Daniel Bennett: for another time
Melanie Knapp: We can email together, and then we talk again in two weeks. Very important we all review and think and talk together.
Monica Palmirani: the resolver can redirect to the correct section_3 that you intend to see
Daniel Bennett: thanks
Monica Palmirani: ok
Monica Palmirani: thanks
John Heywood: oops...just got disconnected from the call. See you all next time.
Daniel Bennett: ciao
Monica Palmirani: In the next call we are able to show the same resolver also for some example of ELI. We are doing this job in the BO-ECLI project.
Monica Palmirani: Ciao
Melanie Knapp: Call ending. Thank you everyone. Ciao!
parisse: Bye