Engaging Gospel Doctrine (Episode 79A)

Lesson 2 (full)

“Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born”

Hook / The Book of Abraham is like nothing else. For heaven’s sake, it has Egyptian facsimiles! (did anyone else love those as a kid?)
Goal / "the Book of Abraham is valuable scripture and though it can raise many questions and even severely challenge faith, it doesn’t need to. Class members should come away from this lesson with an appreciation for the rich doctrinal contributions of the Book of Abraham and a more responsible appreciation for the doctrines of pre-existence and foreordination.
Overview / I: Sunday School
  • WII: Additional passages (not applicable)
II. Additional Reading
III. Study Notes
  • Valu

Conclusion

Concerns to consider:

Comment about the “A” vs. “B” tracks (don’t worry, B will still push the envelope and remain responsible; A will just go deeper and often into territory that wouldn’t be helpful for everyone.

A bit shorter: Done!

(Review again how the two versions work)

  1. Sunday School
  2. The value of the Book of Abraham
  3. Review the assigned reading
  4. Comments on foreordination vs. predestination (recommend the links I will post to the website)
  5. What does the Book of Abraham say it is?
  6. How did we get it? (Read Kevin Barney’s two pieces)
  7. What is scripture? What does it do? Why do we need it? (dig into scripture vs. legitimizing narratives
  8. Additional Reading (not applicable, just wait till we get into the Bible…)
  9. Study Notes (leave most of this for the discussion, but bring up fact that Book of Abraham is one of the biggest issues people have

Foreordination quotes:

“All these rewards were seemingly promised, or foreordained, before the world was. Surely these matters must have been determined by the kind of lives we had lived in that premortal spirit world. Some may question these assumptions, but at the same time they will accept without any question the belief that each one of us will be judged when we leave this earth according to his or her deeds during our lives here in mortality. Isn’t it just as reasonable to believe that what we have received here in this earth [life] was given to each of us according to the merits of our conduct before we came here?” (HaroldB. Lee, in Conference Report, Oct. 1973, 7–8; or Ensign, Jan. 1974,5).

 •

 •

“Every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world was ordained to that very purpose in the Grand Council of heaven before this world was. I suppose I was ordained to this very office in that Grand Council” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,365).

Joseph Fielding Smith:

“Foreordination may also be based on God’s own purposes and plans to bless all of his children. The specifics of these factors remain unclear. As a result, a person’s premortal character can never be judged by his or her present station in life. Some of the most bitter and arduous circumstances may be, in the perspective of eternity, the most blessed, and perhaps even the situations that men and women elected and agreed to enter.

“The spirits of men were created with different dispositions and likes and talents. Some evidently were mechanically inclined, from them have come our inventors. Some loved music and hence they have become great musicians. We evidently brought to this world some if not all of the inclinations and talents we had there. The fact that one person finds one bent, like mathematics easy and another finds it difficult, may, in my judgment, be traced to the spirit existence. So with other talents and skills. It was these characteristics that enabled our Eternal Father to choose certain individuals for certain work on the earth, such as Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Joseph Smith…. It is my judgment that thousands of others were chosen for their special fields because they showed talents and dispositions in that spirit world.” (President Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Quesitons, 5:138-139) ALSO: "God, the Father of us all, uses the men of the earth, especially good men, to accomplish his purposes. It has been true in the past, it is true today, it will be true in the future. Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of His Church to help it along," said the late Elder Orson F. Whitney of the Quorum of the Twelve. "They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. . . . Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the truth; while others remain unconverted . . . the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in His own due time. God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. . . . We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain sense." (Conference Report, April 1928, p. 59.)

This is a hall/home discussion issue, though I am not going to put it in Part III.

What does it matter if scripture really happened or not?

First “happened” is different than “happened the way it is told in the Bible/other scripture” Sometimes scholars call this a “historical core” or even “kernel”

Why does it matter?

-Not all scriptures bear the same weight

-if theology depends on historical reality (resurrection is an obvious example)

-if you have relationships with figures in scripture (this has been very true of me in my life)

-bring up the analogy of memoirs. (Million little pieces years ago). If it changes lives, why does it need to be true? Counterfeit intimacy and motivation.

Talk about the value of scripture vs. attempts to *legitimize* scripture. Historicity actually has little value.. depends on what we use it for and the weight we place on it

And especially pay attention to his suggested resources

  • BYU Prof. S. Kent Brown was tapped to writetheAnchor Bible Dictionaryarticle on “Soul, preexistence of“.
  • Charles Harrel, “The Development of the Doctrine of Preexistence, 1830–1844″ BYU Studies 28:2 PDF.
  • Teryl and Fiona Givens,The God Who Weeps, chapter 2, is all about the premortal existence. It’s an excellent book. See Rosalynde Welch’s review here, Julie Smith’s review here, and Adam Miller’s semi philosophical discussion of chapter 2 here.

1