SPECIAL BOARD MEETING – March 30, 2012
The YellowstoneRegionalAirportRegularBoard Meeting was called to order at 10:00 a.m.
Present:ChairmanCraig Wilbur, John Newton, Bill Holder,Bob Whisonant and Bryan Edwards
Absent:Doug Johnstonand Ché Eissinger
Also Present:Bob Hooper, Lisa Hannon, Larry White, Gene Wasia, Scott Bell, Bruce Ransom, Harold Musser, Jeff Higgs, and John Cordes.
Pledge of Allegiance
Verification of Quorum:Chairman Craig Wilbur, presiding, verified there was a quorum.Bob Whisonant agreed.
Acceptance of Agenda: Bob Whisonant made a motion to approve the agenda as written. Bill Holder seconded the motion. All those present voted AYE, NAY none. Motion passed.
Review and Discussion:
Consideration of Award of Bid for Aircraft Rescue and Fire Fighting Equipment for New Vehicle- Morrison-Maierle and Bob Hooper have reviewed the bids for the “ARFF Vehicle Equipment and Tools” received on March 21, 2012. YRA received two bids of $23,674.00 and $28,718.00. Subject to FAA, WYDOT, and Board concurrence, Morrison-Maierle recommended awarding the bid for ARFF Vehicle Tools and Equipment to L.N. Curtis and Sons with the apparent low base bid of $23,674.00. Bryan Edwards asked what type of equipment this was. Bruce Ransom stated it is hoses, nozzles, hydraulic tools to get through the body of aircraft, ladders and such. The truck had no equipment on it when it was purchased.This equipment goes on the new truck. Bob Whisonant made a motion to award the bid to L.N. Curtis and Sons. Bill Holder seconded the motion. All those present voted AYE, NAY none. Motion passed.
Snow Removal Equipment Acquisition-Bob Hooper showed a power point presentationon a couple different types of snow removal equipment. He stated all the ARFF staff has been to several different airports to look at their equipment. The preferred equipment among airports is a multi-use machine, a plow/broom combo, which allows for one operator to plow and broom the runway at one time, saving time it takes to clear the runway to safe landing and take-off conditions. There are two major manufacturers of this type of equipment, M-B Companies and Oshkosh. The Airports current equipment are aging and does not adequatelyremove contaminants to keep up with the new airline regulations. We currently have a 1991 GMC topkick 2 wheel drive unit with a 250hp motor with a 12’ plow and a 1994 International 2 wheel drive 350hp with a 17’plow. We also use 1997 Stewart and Stevensons rotary blower. Bob Hooper commended the staff on the condition which they keep the equipment in. The two Airport Operations vehicles each have an 8’ plow blade attached and we have a Kubota with a small blade and a sander in the back. There is also a de-icermounted to the back of the old operations truck used on extreme ice conditions. We need new and additional snow removal equipment because of the age of the current equipmentand the equipment is not adequate to meet the needs of the new runway condition friction measurements required by the commercial airlines. We have a friction measuring device to provide airlines with MU values that describe the condition of the runway. Airlines have gotten a lot tougher as to the acceptable conditions of the runway, if those conditions are not met the flights will either be turned away by the airlines or flights will not be allowed to take off. It is felt brooming the runway is the only acceptable way to achieve these results. We have an aging fleet of snow removal equipment, if one goes down we will be out of service. Both plow units are severely under powered, the newer units are 475hp or more. The plow width by current standards are sub-standard, the standard plow width is now 22’ to 24’ range with a broom of 20’ to 22’ range. The new equipment Bob would like to talk about is single operator, rapid snow removal, airport specific trucks. These trucks are not highway snow removal trucks. There are three options, a single unit front mount plow/broom. The drawback, they are either a plow or a broom and they are around $250,000. The second unit is a single unit with a front mount plow and an added tow behind broom forthis equipment the bare minimum is around $500,000. The third unit is a multi-task unit, a unit that allows for simultaneous plowing and brooming, the plow and broom each powered by to 475hp diesel engine and requiring only a single operator. The price for this unit starts at approximately $620,000. It reduces the need for multiple operators whichthe single plow and single broom unit would require.
Bryan Edwards asked what the turning radius is on the multi-task vehicle. Bruce Ransom stated it is 75’, the broom actually tracks the movement of the plow. He also stated with this unit it would take 20 minutes versus 1 hour to clear our runway. After one hour in the plow truck the previously plowed sections are usually starting to build back up with snow. If the time could be reduced to approximately 20 minutes the runway condition would remain ideal for longer periods of time and this would also save on the man hours required to keep the runway open.
Bob Hooper stated when taking the equipment out to bid we cannot be product specific, we can only give the specs we need them to meet. There has to be two American made products that meet the specs we are requiring.
Scott Bell stated years ago most airports went to separate brooms and plows. This required them to have two operators run the equipment simultaneously. Most airports are now going to the multi-function equipment. Currently this airport has no brooming operations and is not really able to achieve the needed results. Bob Whisonant asked if we could take the current equipment and replace the plow blade with a longer blade and add the pull behind broom. He was informed they did not have the required horse power to accommodate the bigger plow blade and could not handle pulling and running the broom. Bryan Edwards stated it’s not as if we get huge amounts of snowfall. Bruce Ransom stated we do get heavy drifting and wet snows that the plow will not remove. Bryan also asked how many flights a year we lose. Bob Hooper stated he knows of at least two this year. Bob Whisonant asked if we had a plow with a broom if we could have been able to get those flights in. Bruce stated absolutely, the broom would have been able to get better results. The plow blades do not touch the ground as they are set ½ an inch off the ground, a broom then follows behind and runs directly on the ground. Bob Whisonant agrees we definitely need a broom but is wondering again if we could replace the existing plow blade with the bigger blade and run the tow behind broom with our existing equipment. Scott Bell said the airport absolutely needs a broom to start getting the better results and if we re-equipped the current equipment the equipment would run out of power. There is not enough horse power to run the heavier plow blade let alone add the additional weight and power needed for the tow behind broom.
Harold Musser said he has done a lot of research of this equipment. A piece of equipment could be purchased that you can change out the attachments on the front, these can run a broom, plow or blower. He also stated that a lot of airports use tow behind booms with deicers. He has lived here for a long time and feels we do not get a lot of ice. He said he has cleared a lot of parking lots and he feels the broom also creates ice. He feels the de-icer would be the way to go because that clears the ice immediately. Bob Hooper said the cost of the solution is very expensive and is not covered by the FAA for reimbursement whereas the snow removal equipment is. Harold said we would not use it that often since he feels the weather here does not require it and FAA money is still tax payer money. Scott Bell said the typical cost to clear the runway with deicer is $1500 to $2000 a shot.Harold stated that is still cheaper than new equipment. Scott said what is not being understood here is that after the runway is shot with the deicer fluid it leaves behind a slush that still has to be removed so the plow trucks and brooms still have to come in behind to clean that off the runway. If you sit and wait for it to go away it will just refreeze. Bruce asked Harold what type of bristles was on the brooms he uses, he said they were nylon. Bruce said the brooms that we would be using are alternating rows of nylon and metal bristles and that is what is required to remove ice and contaminants from the runway.
Bob Hooper stated that the MB5 is the best suited piece of equipment for our airport. If this equipment goes out to bid we would receive bids for the MB5, the MB2, Oshkosh or Wausau.
Bryan Edwards asked if Bob felt that the power of the tow behind broom would not be powerful enough. Bob and Scott both clarified the power of our current trucks are not powerful enough to run that broom. Bryan said “so the current trucks could not handle the bigger plow and the tow behind broom”. Bruce said the weight of the new plow blades are around 6000 pounds and the current trucks could not handle that weight.
Bob Whisonant asked if the broom on the multi-unit is the same length as the plow blade. Bob Hooper said it is two feet shorter. Bob Whisonant “I’m just noticing that the tow behind brooms come in widths of 14’,16’, 18’, and 22’. So what you are saying is even though they power themselves you don’t think the current trucks have enough power to pull them?” Bob Hooper said ‘Keep in mind one of those trucks is 21 years old and the other is 18.” Bob Whisonant said “They look pretty good so they must not get much use.” Bill Holder said “They have had lots of use but they are just kept in really good condition.” Bryan Edwards said “That is a credit to the staff, they take beautiful care of the equipment.” He also asked“if every now and again a piece of equipment goes down does it justify spending the money on new equipment?” Bob Hooper asked everyone to keep in mind this has been approved by the FAA in our current WACIP, if Yellowstone Regional Airport does not take advantage of this money that is being offered to us now another airport will get it and use it. After that it would be unclear when money would be available again for snow removal equipment. Gene Wasia of Morrison-Maierle said if you are talking $500,000 versus $650,000 the YRA portion is 4% so the difference would be $6000 to YRA. Bryan Edwards said that the entire portion is still taxpayer money and should be taken into consideration.
Bryan Edwards asked about the cost of the pull behind broom. Scott Bell said he would have to look into it. There is the cost of the broom and the cost of retro-fitting the current equipment to run the computer system. Bryan stated he is not trying to discount the quality or use of the unit, he is trying to justify the need for new equipment and what we could get by with for how often it is used. Scott Bell stated he feels this airport needs a good aviation broom blower system as a bare minimum. Bryan Edwards stated he disagreed with Scott and what we need is what is required to clear our airport. Scott Bell stated places like Bozeman have found those $500,000 brooms have been essential in clearing the runways. Bryan said “you are comparing us to Bozeman and Billings, look how many flights they get a day compared to Cody”. Scott Bell “ It does not matter if there are 30 flights a day or 1 flight a day, if there are icy conditions and you turn a flight away. It is more detrimental to YRA to lose even one flight”. Bryan said that he feels just because the bigger airports have big equipment does not justify ours getting it. Scott then compared us to Butte, stating they have the same amount of flights that we currently have and they run the single function plows with single function brooms they got those 10 years ago when they were cutting edge.Helena has just a few more flights than Cody and they just got a multi-use vehicle. Bob Whisonant stated that Helena and Butte get a lot more snow than we do. Bob Hooper said that we are required in order to keep out FAA funding to keep adequate snow removal equipment. He also said this is like the ARFF vehicle, we hope we never have to use it but we have to have it in case we need it.Bob Whisonant agrees we need a broom but he is not sure if we need the multi-use vehicle. Bryan Edward agreed.
Harold Musser said one of the questions he has, “Morrison-Maierle back in December requested approval of Task Order #6 for $39,000 to investigate equipment specs, facts and bidding. You are supposed to come with cost benefit analysis, different types of snow removal equipment, research the equipment and prepare preliminary copies. Have you done any of that stuff?”
Scott Bell stated yes they have done that there have been several trips to look at and investigate equipment. This meeting was held to provide those facts and review different types of equipment. That is what everyone is doing here with this presentation. Bob Whisonant asked if they could get better price quotes for the vehicles. Bob Hooper said he has given them what the manufacturers have provided and there can be no firm price quote until the specific items are put out to bid.
Chairman Wilbur said we need to move forward and keep on track, the cost has been discussed many times. He agrees that yes, it is tax payers’ dollars and that tax payers’ dollars are used to benefit the many. If this airport starts losing commercial flights then the commercial flight service will shut down. Without commercial flight service here, this airport is dead. From the bid process to receiving the product is nine months, which would put us into December. Bob Hooper stated this has been on our list for many years and that the FAA and State Aeronauticsagree we need new equipment. If the big plow goes down we are shut down, we will not be able to clear the runway with the smaller plow.
Bruce Ransom stated the he feels aside from the economics of this item, which he agrees should be a factor, everyone needs to consider the safety aspect. A piece of equipment like the multi-use vehicle, or whatever piece may be purchased, he considers an emergency vehicle. He stated it is the safety of him and his men out there plowing. Every time it snows the friction numbers go below what the FAA allows. With a lot of hard work they get those numbers up. There have been a lot of planes that do land with very marginal numbers but when they are ten minutes out and coming in, the Operations guys do everything they possibly can. If there is ice on the runway there is no way to remove it. Key Lime and Corporate Air have both had to overnight here several times this year because of bad runway conditions. This really needs to be viewed as a piece of emergency equipment. Bob Whisonant asked Bruce again if he felt that the big plow would not pull a broom. Bruce stated no it would not, it just does not have the horse power to pull it. Bruce went over several photos of different types of equipment. He explained the pull behind units with a pintle hook have a tendency to jackknife and can actually slap the side of the truck. Larry White stated with the pintle hook you cannot back up and when plowing connector A3 there is a lot of backing up. All the airport staff feels the multi-task vehicle is the best vehicle for the airport.
Harold Musser asked if they had looked at the Oshkosh H series with the exchangeable blade, broom or blower. Harold is concerned that the specs will be geared towards one manufacturer. Scott Bell said the specs have to be written so there can be more than one bidder and Oshkosh with the H series would be one of those bidders. Harold said he feels the H series makes more sense. Larry said the draw back to the exchangeable blade is that if only one person is on they would not have time to run the plow blade and then go change out to run the broom considering they have to clean the runway, ramp, taxiway and connectors. Harold said they could run a plow truck and a broom truck. Bob Hooper said that would not work if only one man is working at the time. Harold said that happens very rarely. Bruce said that is not the case, it happens nearly every snow. John Newton asked Bruce from an operators stand point what he feels is the better unit. He said after driving all of them, he prefers the MB2 or MB5.The MB5 is shorter and easier to handle. The MB units have a cab that is tipped back slightly to allow for the snow to flow over the cab where the Oshkosh unit it straight up and down with a visor that traps the snow. Harold stated again what he likes about the H series is the multiple attachments.John Cordes asked if anyone knows how long the disconnect and change out would be on changing out the implements. It takes a few minutes all the hydraulics are in the cab of the new vehicles and it can be done with one person.