SCOOP Minutes 11/09/2013
SCOOP: Standing Committee on Official Publications
Minutes of the meeting heldon11September 2013, 2.00pm, CILIP HQ
Present:
Andrew Coburn (Chair), Valerie Nurcombe (Acting Minutes Secretary), Patrick Casey (BL), Chris Sear (House of Commons), Peter Gutteridge (TSO),Daniel O’Connor (ELG),Tara-Lee Platt (BIALL), Steven Hartshorne (Bolton Libraries), Maria Bell (EDC network), Evelyn Rooney (Westminster Reference Library), Donna Ravenhill (Dandy Booksellers)
Pre-Formal meeting launch and presentations
The launch of the SCOOP Print Still Mattersproject and website took place at Portcullis House at 11.30 followed by lunch at which the work of retiring members of SCOOP (Peter Chapman, Dora Clark, Jane Inman, and Valerie Nurcombe) was recognised. Andrew Coburn introduced the project website and CILIP President, Phil Bradley, welcomed the website. John Pullinger, the House of Commons Librarian was thanked for their hospitality.
74/1 Welcomes and Apologies
Donna Ravenhill was welcomed as a prospective member (formal decision was put off until February).
Apologies were received from:
Jane Inman, Helen Creeke, Anni Berman, Deidre Farry, , Rob Phillips, Graeme Paterson, Jim Wretham,Gavin Boughton (Refer columnist), David Smith (GLG).
Resignations: Peter Chapman, Dora Clark, Jane Inman, Valerie Nurcombe
74/2 Action Points – discussion feedback
74/2/1-1 Bookmark you library –
No comments had been heard. AC will report any developments
74/2/1-2 Parliament website and gov.uk – representative of GDS to attend SCOOP
AC reported that he had not yet invited anyone.ACTION - AC
74/2/1-3 Print Still Matters project launch and website –
The pre-meeting was very successful and Andrew thanked John Pullinger again for providing accommodation and lunch. Suggestions for further content included the possibility of including the SCOOP publications database and linking to, or adding, the training information from the Open University site.
Peter’s resignation means that a coordinator is needed to update the site. Volunteers please
The domain name is registered until July 2015 – AC has the passwords. Individuals who have contributed can get into their entry to add or amend their information. Continued management of the web requires action / volunteers.
Publicity needs consideration. Phil Bradley is going to put an entry in his blog.
There will be an item in Update. This was also to publish a critique of gov.uk from the May meeting.
Marketing is needed with ideas as to whom, where and how. Articles / mentions should stress that we still want contributions and that they can send information to .
-CILIP – write to all special interest groups / newsletter content
-BIALL news should contain info.ACTION – Maria Bell will liaise with Joy Caisley
-CIIG – Construction Industry Information Group ACTIONVJN
-LIS-LINKACTIONAC
-TSO ACTION PG
-Business Librarians GroupACTION Tara-Lee Platt
-London LibrariesACTIONEvelyn Rooney
-SWOP will also encourage people to use and continue to contribute
74/2/2 Paper archive of government documents
73/1/1refers. Parliamentary debates relegation guidelines (by Alastair Allan) are published and should be publicised on the ISG website. Anyone who is able should please include a reference. A link was suggested from the PrintStillMatters website. ACTION – AC/ PC
Alastair Allan is still intending to write guidance on Official Statistic and also on the Census. Departmental publications has not yet been planned.
74/2/3 Availability of government publications
74/2/3-1 refers to 73/2/2 Written answers will cease publication. Chris Sear will circulate information. ACTION: CS
74/2/3-2 refers to 73/6/b TNA plans are not yet available. Helen Creeke will email the latest developments to members shortly. There was discussion on the origination of MARC records. ACTION HC
PG noted that print will still go to deposit libraries, House of Commons and House of Lords with 2 ISBNs being one for print and one for web editions. TSO is currently planning commercial versions using their ISBNs and producing a MARC record. Four publishers will create MARC records but it is not yet clear how they will get the records if not through TSO.
Information on the closure of will be circulated. Data
moves into gov.uk. ACTION: PG
74/4: Access to Official Statistics
73/4/1 The Chair continues to liaise with CILIP on possible names for the CILIP representative to the Statistics Users Forum. Claire Creasey (Loughborough) is the other representative and might be asked to offer us a written report. Volunteers please. AC will talk to Guy Daines and Claire. ACTION: AC
PG commented that the parliamentary report on the ONS website was ‘damning’.
74/5 Report by the Chair / Secretary
74/5/1 (73/5/1) and we are still waiting a nomination from ARLGACTION: AC
The suggestion for a representative from the new Public Libraries and Mobile Libraries Group went to their meeting but no-one has yet come forward.ACTION: AC
74/5/2 refers to 73/5/2 Dandy Booksellers request to be a member of SCOOP is deferred. Any comments in the meantime to the Secretary. ACTION: ALL
74/5/3 Secretary – this is required urgently following the unavoidable and sudden resignation of Peter Chapman. AC thanked him for his work but pointed out that he (AC) cannot cope with the administration for long. It may be necessary to review the direction of SCOOP if we have no volunteers. It was noted that as long as the Chairman is an ISG member the Secretary may not be BUT either one must be a member of ISG, the parent body.
PC has a mailing list for PrintStillMatters – they could be contacted.ACTION AC/ PC
The formal composition of SCOOP will be discussed at the next meeting in the absence of a volunteer. AC will take advice from ISG. ACTION AC
74/6: Reports from representatives.
74/6/a TSO
Report attached.TSO has been negotiating with TNA over HC papers – a date will be announced.
74/6/b The National Archives
AC read HC’s report noting that an email to everyone will follow tomorrow – this is appended.
74/6/c Parliament
Online Hansard has a few gaps and they are meeting shortly to standardise a remedy. They will also be considering the same problem with the Standing Committee Debates.
74/6/d European Documentation Centres
Maria reported on the above as the EIA is no longer in existence.
EDCs recently celebrated the 50th anniversary of their establishment. It has been fairly quiet although some universities have withdrawn their EDC leaving 38 currently in existence. They are still a strong network but there is pressure on space and on the European Studies courses they support. They will be holding a meeting before the end of 2013.
The official Journal online is now recognised as an authoritative version. Print is no longer required. Similarly with the online European Court Reports.
Could PC add a link to the 38 EDCs from the reports of those universities please? ACTION AC/PC
Tara-Lee Platt is now Official Publications Librarian at LSE and will take over from Maria Bell who will continue to represent the EDCs.
74/6/e BL
Report attached.
73/6/f National Library of Wales (Rob Phillips)
Report awaited but noted that Rob is no longer OP Librarian.
74/6/g Refer (Peter Chapman)
June 2013 issue was published with several relevant items.PC will edit Autumn issue but a new editor is sought for 2014.
74/6/h SWOPReport attached
Noted that their recent meeting discussed the future as they are also finding it difficult to attract new members. Anyone can join their mailing list and Knowledge Hub.
74/6/i SUFNo report
74/7 MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON 8 May 2013
Agreed
74/8 MATTERS ARISING for report
73/1/2AC has nothing to report. COPAC will be removed from next agenda.
73/3CILIP’s new website is up but the VLE is not yet working.
73/4/2Statistics seminar outline is good and AA may be able to organise in conjunction with the Royal Statistical Society.
74/8 Matters arising (not otherwise discussed)
73/8Guidelines on local authority publishing – Jane Inman is currently working and a volunteer is still needed to take over from her. David Smith from Conwy has an interest but may not have the time. Noted that local authorities are now digital by default so the emphasis in the guidelines will be different. ACTION AC + JI
74/9 AOB
74/9/1CILIP Update – suggested there should be something on the PrintStillMatters site and the need for a new Secretary. ACTION AC + all
74/9/2List of Departmental Publications from 1997 / 1998 to be withdrawn from Hertfordshire’s collection – circulated. There is nothing we can do.
74/9/3Census of the censuses was taken 3-4 years ago (by TNA) – has anyone heard of the outcome? It was noted that the future of the Census will be discussed by the ONS shortly. ACTION HC
74/9/4Donna reported that Dandy Booksellers are currently compiling a list of items like the Army list and the Annual Abstract of Statistics which no longer appear in print. Could they be included on the PrintStillMatters website? As a result of the discussion it was felt that the PrintStillMatters Working Group should define guidelines on what should be included there. ACTION AC and the Group
74/9/5LSE are to develop a digital repository for OPs. They have already decided to start with departmental publications.
Meeting closed at 3.20.
73/10 DATE of NEXT MEETING
12thFebruary 2014 2pm at CILIP.AC will see to Booking Room.
APPENDICES
74/2 Item 73/1/1 refers:
Guide to relegation of British Official Publications
Since 2000, it has become increasingly apparent that many British libraries have started a process of relegating British official publications from their stock. Part of the reason is the misunderstanding that all British official publications are freely available on the web, which they are not. Other reasons include rapidly growing collections and the conclusion that official publications are not well used and an alternative to stocking them is to obtain them on inter-library loan. This strategy has already resulted in several important collections being destroyed. These guides intend to describe what can be readily disposed of and what elements of a collection need to be retained or given away.
- Parliamentary Debates (Hansard).
The publishing of the debates has evolved so that from a single set, there are currently 3 sets:
House of Commons.
House of Lords.
Public Bill Committees.
House of Commons.
The debates of the House of Commons are now published online within 3 hours. In effect, the principal source of such information is no longer the printed edition but the online version. The House of Commons started its digitised version in November 1988 and this is available on the Parliament website:
Therefore any library stock of the Commons Hansard from November 1988 can be confidently relegated and destroyed because access to the online edition is permanent.
House of Lords.
Similarly, the House of Lords publishes within 3 hours and the online version can be regarded as the main source. The Lords digital version began in November 1995 and is another permanent information source on the Parliament website:
Again, any library stock of the Lords Hansard from November 1988 can be confidently relegated and destroyed.
Public Bill Committees.
These Committees were known as Standing Committees up until the 2005-2006 Parliamentary session. The Public Bill Committees discuss and report on Bills going though both the Commons and the Lords. The reports are published when the Committees complete their reports and they were added to the Parliament website from November 1997. Again, these can be considered to be a permanent source and the preferred format.
The current debates are available:
and there is an archive from 1997:
The Committee debates are never well used and the paper copies from November 1997 can certainly be relegated and destroyed.
Online archive.
The Parliamentary archive covers the debates from the Hansard years (1803- ) up to 2005. The archive is more than 95% complete and so for the majority of libraries, this coverage will be sufficient and they will be able to consider full relegation. The archive has a search facility but that can cause some discomfort* because searching for a constituency will always bring over 1, 000 results and a member’s surname name plus the constituency will bring as many. A topic search will bring tens of thousands.
* using the guidance available via the search help link really helps to narrow down a search.
Hansard series
- Parliamentary history from the earliest times to 1803
Published in 36 volumes from 1806 – 1820, this set is quite rare. It should be regarded as a rare book and if disposal is considered desirable it should be sold as a rare book. There is a reprint set published by Johnson in 1966 which could be passed onto a second hand book dealer.
- Hansard, series 1
The first series by Luke Hansard is in 41 volumes from 1803 to 1820. In this series both the House of Lords and the House of Commons are reported. The majority of University libraries keep any books published before 1851 in special collections and so this set would be regarded as rare book. There would be some interest in purchasing a full set but broken holdings would be of lesser interest. Libraries that hold the full set are urged to retain it.
- Hansard, series 2
The second Hansard series is a shorter period from 1820 to 1830 and there are only 25 volumes. The same reservation about early 19th Century printed books also applies to this set. This set is a set of rare books and they are, if anything, slightly more difficult to consult than the first series. Again, Libraries that hold the full set are urged to retain it.
- Hansard, series 3
The third Hansard series runs for a much longer period, starting in 1830 and ending in 1891 with a set of 356 volumes. Again, the designation of ‘rare book’ applies to a part of this series. Like the earlier sets, this one reports the transactions in both the Houses of Lords and Commons. This set runs for the greater part of the Victorian reign and so much of the important Parliamentary activity of her reign is reported in this set. This set is much more widely available in British libraries and for the usage by Victorian historians that is likely the larger libraries will be able to provide access to the printed set. Libraries with broken holdings could offer them to other libraries or they could dispose of such holdings. The earlier volumes from 1830 to 1850 might have a greater value.
- Hansard, series 4
Strangely, this later set that runs from 1892 to 1909 is possibly of greater rarity. Again this series is for both the Lords and the Commons and the reason it is curtailed with only 199 volumes is because the debates for the two houses were split in 1909. It is possible that some larger libraries might need all or part of this series. The content of the set is of lesser value and those libraries that do not have an extensive historical readership should offer this series and should feel free to offer to other libraries or discard.
- Hansard, series 5: House of Commons
The 5th series is the first one that only records the debates for the House of Commons and it runs for 1, 000 volumes from 1909 to 1980. It is held by all the major libraries in Great Britain. This set is widely available because MPs have often donated long runs to libraries. The Second World War years (1939-1945) are important and still widely consulted because of the important speeches made at the time. The early years can be important but the First World War years (1914- 1918) are not so widely consulted. Many major libraries have the full set of Series 5 and so libraries with broken or limited holdings can discard them. There is little need to offer them to other libraries, although there might be some interest in volumes from 1909 – 1950.
- Hansard, series 5: House of Lords
The reason that Series 4 is so short is because of the decision to split the Hansard coverage into Lords and Commons. This series started in 1909 and still continues in 2013. It had reached volume 744 in April 2013. Even though this series covers more than a century, its value is limited. For those libraries which have few Parliamentary enquiries, then the Lords Hansard can be relegated and discarded. For those with broken holdings there is little point in keeping a fragment when the online version will almost certainly find any requests made. Even in specialist libraries, there is little use made of historic Lords debates and although the early years could be offered to specialist libraries, this is a set that can be discarded with a clear conscience.
- Hansard, series 6: House of Commons
This series started in 1980 -81 and by April 2013 had reached volume 561. Few libraries have retained a printed copy because the online version is a good one. Highly specialist government document libraries might wish to retain a printed copy but all other libraries can discard their holdings of this series.
- Standing Committee Reports
These reports started to be published in 1959-60 and continued up to 2005-06 when they were re-named. Many users discontinued their printed sets when they became available online in the 1997 and few have any printed Public Bill Committee reports. The reports for each session are numbered separately. Few researchers find these reports to be of value even though they do contain detailed information about Bills. Non-specialist libraries can discard these reports, especially if they have broken holdings.