Podcast 18 – A Dean’s eye view
PROFESSOR FORCESE: Welcome back. In this last of our Orientation podcast series for first year students, I speak with Dean Nathalie Des Rosiers about her background, her vision for the law school and her thoughts on getting the most out of your law school experience. I began by asking Dean Des Rosiers to introduce herself and say a few words about her background.
DEAN DES ROSIERS: My name is Nathalie Des Rosiers and I’m the new Dean at the Faculty of Common Law at uOttawa and I’m delighted to be accompanying you students on this journey that is law school. I began my own journey in law school a long time ago and I approached law school because I had been told that it was a good thing to have because at the time I wanted to be a journalist and I was told “do law school and you’ll be a more rigorous journalist”. I did experience that. I went to law school with being fairly skeptical about whether that would fulfill my dreams but it did. I chose very early on.
I was lucky to find a job as a journalist but decided to abandon journalism to stick with law because it fulfilled more who I was and I think that’s one of the messages that I want to tell you first is that you may have all sorts of preconceive ideas about what law school will bring to you and I think it’s important to open your mind to all the opportunities that it can give you. You will reveal yourself to yourself; you will discover new qualities that you didn’t think you had; you will also experience the rigor of thinking that law school does require, which is a good thing in any profession, in anything that you choose to do after that. I usually tell students that there is room for everyone in law school. As you know if you have a sense of business certainly I think you can use your law degree to make money, to improve the life of the economy in many direct ways.
If you have lots of attention to detail there is certainly a large part of the legal profession that is about research, ensuring contracts are accurate, and so on. If you are, on the other hand, very good with people, if you are a bit of a psychologist then there is lots of room for you because law school and a legal career and many of the different careers that are offered with a JD, what I call the “JD advantage”, will be about resolving conflicts for people, helping people resolve conflicts. If you’re good in writing, there’s room for you because a lot of people do research for government, NGOs, certainly you can become a faculty member, judges write a lot, so if you’re good in writing there’s room for you. And if you’re a big mouth, there’s room for you as well. So there’s room for everyone and I think that’s one of the richness of law school is that you will see and be with people who have different talents, so you’ll be enriched by this.
PROFESSOR FORCESE: Now you came back to the University of Ottawa after a number of different career paths in law. Could you provide us with just a brief summary of the sort of things you’ve done in your legal career?
DEAN DES ROSIERS: Yes, so I graduated with a law degree from Université de Montreal at a time where we were 400 in first year, 350 at the end and times of recession when we graduated but I Was lucky enough to have worked in a big law firm, a legal clinic, and then I clerked at the Supreme Court, I did graduate work in the US, and I came back to Ontario for romantic reasons because I had met omeone who lived in London Ontario and I became a law professor after two or three years in private practice.
I loved private practice and really enjoyed what it provided me. And when I was in teaching I did lots of things. I did represent and work for survivors of sexual abuse and most of my scholarship at that time was in that domain, I sat on administrative tribunals, I was a small claims court judge in the summer, and did a lot of law reform. Eventually I became the president of the Law Commission of Canada which was a la reform body established by the federal government and did that for four years. From then I became the Dean in Civil Law at the University of Ottawa.
And after my Deanship was completed I did some work in Central Administration and then decided to do something I had wanted to do for many years which was to go and help in the NGO sector. Some of my scholarship had been in constitutional law and the protection of human rights and I wanted to give back. So I went and ran the Canadian Civil Liberties Association for four years. And I’ve learned many skills in these different jobs, many skills I think that help me be a better Dean. I understand well what the different facets of law practice can be; I’ve done it from any different positions. For one that did not really want to go into law school, law school has provided me with a life [that is] rich, full. I was able to give to the utmost of my talents and I know it will be the same for you.
PROFESSOR FORCESE: And so what brings you back to the Deanship then in the Common Law section at the University of Ottawa? What sort of vision do you have for the law school?
DEAN DES ROSIERS: Well, I believe that law schools work essentially in the public interest. They are public interest institutions. What we do is we create the concepts that will allow society to actually continue to function, and function well, function better. And we train students to be able and willing to create the concepts that will be needed for society. So for me I see this as being a continuation from what I was doing throughout my career, which has always been to try to ensure that legal norms respond to the needs of society. And I’ve done that in many different capacities and here I Think it’s interesting for me to come to Common Law because it’s a very rich, large incredible pool of talent at the Faculty and it’s the right time. It’s the right time for students to rise to the occasion. We are facing an access to justice issue in Ontario and in Canada. We need to create the best students, the best lawyers that we can, and that’s what I want to do.
PROFESSOR FORCESE: Do you have any words of wisdom for students who are coming into the program that would allow them both to get the most out of the law program and also perhaps to explore these other aspects of being a law student and then a lawyer that you’ve mentioned already?
DEAN DES ROSIERS: I think the first rule to be a law student is certainly to attend class. And I’, not saying that just because I’m the Dean. I do think that you should understand that there is something about the wisdom that you will get from the different professors. The professors that we have here are experts in their fields and they will give you not only knowledge, they will give you the skills, how to succeed in life, because they are successful. They wouldn’t be teaching if they hadn’t had a successful career. But also I think you will get from this experience the professionalism that you need to get and you will get the interaction, getting to know not only how they think but how your colleagues think. So the ability to be there, and to not do it from afar but to involve yourself I think is important. I think you should enefit from the fact that this is a unique place.
Ottawa is a unique place, it’s the only place where you can have the French and the English and the Quebec side and the other side and I think you should explore that because no matter what your going to do after, you’re going to experience a world where there’s different points of view, different cultural backgrounds… We’re a very diverse faculty; we pride ourselves on this and you should benefit from this. You should gorge on that experience, Certinaly I think clubs, pro bono, doing the extra mile to enjoy the conferences that are offered to you. This is a unique experience, the richness that we can provide is there for you to take. Don’t forget to take it. That’s the best..We’re investing in you. Do it for yourself but also do it for society. Do it because you owe it to society now to be the best lawyer you can be.
PROFESSOR FORCESE: Let me ask you, in terms of your own interactions as Dean with the students, what philosophy will you bring to the position?
DEAN DES ROSIERS: Well certainly I think, I love students; that’s why I’m here. I always enjoy students I enjoy teaching that’s why I’m back at it because I can’t resist teaching. This is the best way for me to interact with students. We certainly will have the occasion to have the formal ways in which we interact, the speeches, the meetings and greetings, all the celebrations; I hope you come to Homecoming and so on. I have a couple of hours every week of open door where students can drop in for 15 minutes and if we can’t solve or can’t finish our conversation in 15 minutes then we can have another appointment. I have my Twitter account. I’m good on e-mail. E-mail me if you have a problem. I like to discuss about the big issues of the world and I’m very interested in giving you the confidence that you need to be in this world. We have sleected you to come to Ottawa U because you deserve to be here, because we trust that you will succeed and we want you also to make your imprint on the world.
PROFESSOR FORCESE: Thank you, Dean Des Rosiers.
DEAN DES ROSIERS: Merci.