MINUTES of themeeting of theF&R COMMUNITY SAFETY PLAN TOPIC GROUP held on Wednesday 9 November at 2.00pm
ATTENDANCE
Members
P T J Channell, M D Colne, K F Emsall, I H Laidlaw-Dickson
Officers
Roy Wilsher, Chief Fire Officer
David Moses, Head of Scrutiny
Nicola Hayden, Democratic Services Officer
1. / MINUTESThe minutes of the meetings of the Topic Group held on Tuesday 18 October and Thursday 20 October 2005 were confirmed as a correct record and signed by the Chairman. / All to note
2 /
FIRE BRIGADE UNION (FBU) PRESENTATION
2.1 / The Chairman welcomed Graham Noakes, Mark Cheshire and Derek Macleod from the Fire Brigade Union to the meeting and invited them to give their response to the eleven proposals contained within the draft Community Safety Plan 2006-2007.2.2 / Graham Noakes circulated a copy of the Fire Brigade Union’s initial preliminary response to the proposals and explained that the FBU would also be making a formal response as part of the Fire and Rescue Service’s consultation process.
2.3 / He began his presentation by giving a brief introduction as to the FBU’s general response to the Community Safety Plan and noted that they were opposed to the proposed reduction in firefighters at Hemel Hempstead (4), St Albans (4), Stevenage (4), Officer posts (4), Watford (up to 10), Radlett (12), Bovingdon (12) and Royston (up to 5).
2.4 / He then went on to discuss each of the eleven proposals in more detail.Whilst the detail behind each response was explained in the document (which is attached as Appendix 1 to these minutes), several points were raised in discussion by members of the group:
Proposal No. 1 – Introduce a Community Safety Task Force
Whilst the FBU supported in principle the introduction of a Community Safety Task Force they raised concerns about the possible shift in resources from intervention to safety education with a possible cut of 51 firefighters and officers from emergency response roles and only a redeployment of approximately 10 posts to the Community Safety Task Force. Theywere also concerned that due to current staff shortages across the service, any short falls in crewing levels could be made up by the Community Safety Task Force rather than cover being provided by neighbouring operational stations.
In response to this, Members queried firstly what assessment the Chief Fire Officer had undertaken as to how often absences from operational duty rosters would be covered by the Community Safety Task Force and secondly how often in the last six months the level of staff at Stevenage, Watford and Hemel Hempstead fell below 8? / Roy Wilsher
2.5 / Proposal No. 2 - New Emergency Response Attendance Standards
With regards to proposal no. 2, the FBU explained they felt that the new attendance standard to property fires of first appliance within 10 minutes, and the second appliance within 13 minutes on 90% of occasions was a lower/slower response than the previous response times as laid down by the 1985 Standards of Fire Cover which recommended one appliance attend in 8-10 minutes for property fires. They noted that even with current staffing levels there were times when the old standard was not met so any reduction in staffing levels would make it even more difficult to meet the new standard. They also raised a concern over the removal of the Best Value Performance Indicator from this year’s plan with regards to attendance times, number of riders and weight of attack and the impact this would have on providing performance data for those three areas in the future.
In the general discussion that followed a number of points were raised by Members which included:
- Under the new proposal, for all ‘persons reported’ three appliances would be sent as standard, which should in fact improve the service’s response, rather than worsen it?
- If a 10 minute response time has been set, there will still be many occasions when the first appliance will arrive at the incident well within this time frame (i.e. within 5 or 6 minutes) so what evidence is there that this change will have a detrimental effect?
‘Response time fatality rate relationships for dwelling fires, Home Office’ and ‘Dwelling Fire Cover Risk Assessment’, Entec UK Limited (Government appointed consultants)]
Specifically Members asked the Chief Fire Officer to confirm the following:
- If the ODPM no longer requires performance data on three areas previously discussed, how will the service measure future turn-out performances?
2.6 / Proposal No. 3 – Change the Officer duty system to ensure an appropriate number of officers are available at all times.
The FBU were concerned that this proposal would increase the average working hours per week for each officer to 78, from 72 which would result in an increase in standby hours of 450 per year and a decrease in management hours by 116 per year.
As this proposal was not part of the public consultation process Members of the group felt they could not discuss it at this stage but asked the Chief Fire Officer to provide the following information:
- What is the average amount of time spent by an officer working each week as opposed to on cover under both the existing and proposed systems?
- What restrictions are placed on staff during their periods on callout?
- What were the recommendations proposed by Coutts in 2001 and what were the views of the Fire & Rescue Service’s Occupational Health Physician?
- What other changes are proposed within the draft Community Safety Plan that are not part of the public consultation exercise?
2.7 / Proposal No. 4 – Reduce the number of Aerial appliances from 3 to 2.
The FBU were unable to comment on this proposal but did state that they felt the existing aerial appliances could be better utilised.
2.8 / Proposal No. 5 – Reduce the number of firefighters at Hemel Hempstead, St Albans and Stevenage from 13 to 12 per watch.
The FBU noted that they felt reducing the number of firefighters at the above 3 stations would exacerbate the service’s ability to maintain critical safety crewing levels on all fire appliances. They also felt that the removal of firefighters from these stations would impact on the global crewing levels for all stations in Hertfordshire.
When discussing this proposal Members noted the FBU’s concerns and asked the Chief Fire Officer to provide information on the number of occasions over the last six months that the level of staff on duty at Stevenage, Hemel Hempstead and Watfordhad fallen below 8? / Roy Wilsher
2.9 / Proposal No. 6 – change the crewing arrangements atWatford by crewing the second pump for the busiest 12-hours of the day.
The FBU stated that the due to areas of high life risk in Watford, the possible under provision of fire cover in South Oxhey, the increasing population, and the high level of accidental dwelling fires any proposed cut in staffing at night would negate preventative work and reduce the emergency response capability in Watford.
Members acknowledged this concern and queried whether the overlap of cover in Watford was sufficient to meet the new fire standards, in particular attendance times for South Oxhey. As such they asked the Chief Fire officer to clarify what the previous HMI report recommendations in respect of South Oxhey were, and to confirm how he saw these being covered within the draft Community Safety Plan? They were also concerned about any potential domino effect of removing cover from one area to meet shortfall in another. / Roy Wilsher
2.10 / Proposal No. 7 – Change the Wholetime Shift to 12 hours.
In response to this proposal the FBU felt there was no evidence to support a claim that a change to the 12-hour shift would increase productivity in community fire safety activities. They felt that a change to the start/finish time of the current 9/15 hour shift arrangement could overcome problems around the current shift finish time of 6.00pm and that the current 15-hour night shift allowed an uninterrupted 6-hour period from 1800hrs to midnight for community fire safety work.
Members noted this and asked the Chief Fire Officer to explain what impact the proposed 12-hour shift would have on community fire safety work and explain what the current level of community fire safety work is that takes place during the latter part of the 1800hrs to midnight period? / Roy Wilsher
2.11 / Proposal No. 8 – Increase the establishment at Bishops Stortford and Hitchin Fire Stations.
The FBU noted their support for this proposal.
2.12 / Proposal No. 9 – Closure of Bovingdon fire station and provide cover for the area from the surrounding fire stations.
Proposal No. 10 – Closure of Radlett fire station and provide cover for the area from the surrounding fire stations.
The FBU were joined by Peter Cargill, Officer in Charge at Radlett and were unanimous in their opposition to these two proposals. They stated that the retained crews at these two stations could be used to carry out community fire safety initiatives, which would then eliminate the need to establish the Community Safety Task Force, thereby relieving the need to reduce the number of firefighters at wholetime stations. They also felt that by closing these two stations would increase the risk in health, safety and welfare of both firefighters and the general public and would have significantly adverse effects on the number and severity of incidents in the area.
Peter Cargill advised Members that Radlett received an average of 200-250 callouts per year, with approximately 150 of these for cover in Borehamwood and Watford. He also noted that approximately 30% of the time they had to turn out with a crew of 3 and whilst this meant they could not enter a property they could carry out all the necessary preparatory work so that when the second appliance arrived they were able to enter the affected building immediately. He also advised that not all call outs were for property fires, for example road traffic collisions, and if that were the case then 3 firefighters could begin work immediately. He further noted that 6 out of the 13 retained firefighters at Radlett were also wholetime firefighters at other stations.
In response to this Members asked the Chief Fire Officer to provide the following information:
- Comparator information relating to the callout performance between Radlett, Bovingdon and other retained stations?
- How many times have either Bovingdon or Radlett been called out over the last twelve months to provide cover for appliances responding to calls at other neighbouring stations?
- The number of times this has happened simultaneously?
- What account does the draft plan provide for the domino effect of losing the cover provided by these stations?
2.13 / Proposal No. 11 – Amend the day-crewing arrangements at Royston to provide fulltime cover during Monday to Friday working hours with retained cover at the weekends. Two fire engines will continue to be maintained at Royston to meet the proposed attendance times.
The FBU stated that as Royston was one of the fastest growing towns in North Hertfordshire, with a growth rate of 14.25%, the loss of up to 5 wholetime firefighters would equate to a reduction of 41.5% of the wholetime fire fighting capability. They further stated that wholetime firefighters at Royston also provide a retained cover – committed to 18 out of 24 hours cover each time they are on duty, so a reduction in wholetime personnel could also impact on the level of retained firefighters available.
In response to this last concern Members asked the Chief Fire Officer to confirm how the draft plan took account of the possibility of the loss of 5 retained positions? / Roy Wilsher
2.14 / The Topic Group thanked the FBU and Peter Cargill for coming to the meeting.
3. / WORK PROGRAMME
3.1 / Having now heard evidence from the Chief Fire Officer and the FBU, the Topic Group agreed they would like to hear evidence from:
- Save Bovingdon Fire Station Campaign
- ‘Save the Royston 5’
- Save Radlett Fire Station Action Group
3.2 / Members also requested that responses to the questions for the Chief Fire Officer be available at the next meeting. / Roy Wilsher / Nicola Hayden
4. / DATE OF NEXT MEETING
4.1 /
- Tuesday 29 November at 2.00pm (or on the rising of County Council) in
Nicola Hayden
Democratic Services Officer
November 2005
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051109 Minutes