January 2011doc.: IEEE 802.11-11/0085r0
IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs
Date: 2011-01-17
Author(s):
Name / Company / Address / Phone / email
James Yee / MediaTek / No. 1, Dusing 1st Road, Hsinchu Science Park, Hsinchu, Taiwan, 30078 / +886-3-567-0766 /
Vinko Erceg / Broadcom /
Eldad Perahia / Intel Corporation /
Minutes of TGad session – Monday January17th, 10:30 – 12:30
Eldad called the meeting to order at 10:30.
Present doc 802.11-11/0083
Reminded everyone of attendance rules.
Reminded everyone of the patent policy. Asked the room for any potential patent claims. See none.
Agenda Discussions
Assaf asked for agenda time to present PHY comment resolutions.
Eldad queried presenters for presentation duration and preferred times.
Asked if there are objections to the revised agenda. See none.
Review of minutes from November.
Motion to approve the minutes. Moved: James. 2nd: Sai. Passed unanimously.
Review of conference calls
Editor Report
Eldad summarized status. 451 resolved out of 670 technical comments.
Carlos present 11-10/1080r3
TGad draft D1.1 released on 1/16.
Asked everyone to contact the Editor if you
Sai (Tensorcom) asked about the process for participating in the comment resolution.
CWPAN
Eldad asked if participants affiliated with CWPAN who presented 11-10-1332 during the November meeting are in the room but none are.
Eldad presents official response from IEEE staff regarding CWPA?N’s request from the November meeting regarding copyright permission to modify 802.11ad spec for 45-50GHz operation.
George Bumiller (RIM) asks if we have more information on if CWPAN has any other reason for this modification other than that they can not purchase test equipment
Eldad: my understanding is that there are US export restrictions barring the use of 60GHz equipment.
John Barr (J. Barr & Associates) asked about the upper bands are not allwed in China. Eldad responded that is not the case according to his understanding.
Eldad will email the proposed response to the participants who are affiliated with CWPAN (Liang Li and Xiaomin Peng)
Comment Resolution Motions
Several motions will approve the resolutions from past conference calls.
Motion #24: Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Motion #25 regarding comments resolved during Dec 2, 2010 conference call: Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Motion #26 regarding comments resolved during Dec 9, 2010 conference call: Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Motion #27 regarding comments resolved during Dec 16, 2010 conference call: Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Motion #28 regarding comments resolved during Dec 23, 2010 conference call:
Modified motion to correct typo. Change reference to 10/1461r1 to 10/1461r0.
Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Motion #29 regarding comments resolved during January 6, 2011 conference call: Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Motion #30 regarding comments resolved during January 13, 2011 conference call: Move/Second: James/Sai. Seeing no objections, Passed unanimously.
Comment Resolution Submissions
11-11-0071r0 presented by ChaoChun Wang (MediaTek)
John Barr asked if the presenter is using the same document version as what is on the server because there seems to be some minor discrepencies. ChaoChun responded that he might have accidentally changed the text but it should be the same as what is on the server.
John Barr asked about some poorly formed grammar in the text and asked that more time be given to review the text before it is motioned to be accepted.
James Yee (MediaTek) commented that the references to the parameter ammWavePPDUMaxTime are in fact not typos, but the capitalization should be aMMWavePPDUMaxTime, but the editor should be able to make the corrections as needed.
11-10-1456r0 presented by Solomon (Intel)
Eldad asked for clarification for text on Page 4 (9.23.6.5.1), suggesting editorial changes.
Carlos suggested changes to address Eldad’s concerns.
John Barr started to comment but then said he needs more time to look at it.
Solomon will saved changes to 11-10-1456r1. Eldad asked all to review and comment.
John asked until when this will be tabled? Eldad explained that this is not a motion so there is nothing to table. Eldad will give everyone until tomorrow to review the document and provide comments.
Eldad further comments on the text changes for resolving CID#643
11-11-0078 presented by Chris Hansen (Broadcom)
BRP Comment Resolution for CID 125
John Barr commented on if Preamble should be capitalized. Chris said he will make the change and upload r1.
John Barr commented on LDPC (21.5.3.2.2.2) that certain values should be represented using parameter names instead.
Chris will upload an r1 with the suggested changes for further review.
Eldad said he wouldn’t leave it to Carlos to make the remaining changes.Chris said he will make all the changes instead.
Kato (NICT) asked about Tx EVM (21.4.1.1.1). Why mention rake receiver or equalizer? Eldad: this is similar to 11n where the spec specifies the use of zero-forcing equalizer (20.3.21.7.4).
Ian Wang (National Instruments), the inclusion of rake receiver is the confusing part.
Minutes of TGad session – MondayJanuary17th, 13:30 – 15:30
Eldad called the meeting to order at 1:30.
Added to agenda:
11/0079 by Carlos.
Comment resolution contributions
11/0090r0 presentation by Ganesh (Intel): FST in TVWS
Solomon asked how signaling is done between Mode I and Mode II devices. Messages or beacon? Ganesh: beacons. Modes also established via FCC certification.
Kato asked a question.
Kato commented that this is a TGad only feature but it is useful for other bands as well.
Carlos explained that FST is actually defined to work with bands other than DBand.
Sai asked about if the state machine on slide 5 covers the case of starting off with one Mode I device.
Ganesh explains the definition of Mode I and II devices.
Solomon asks if there is anything specific to TVWS in the proposed action frames and why the proposed handshake is necessary.
John Barr comments that since this presentation does not correspond to a technical comment, discussion should be limited. If this is an internal Intel discussion then it should be taken elsewhere. Eldad explains that this is within the scope of the agreed upon agenda, which includes comment resolution and other topics. Eldad as chair has decided to allow this presentation.
AlanBerkema (HP) asks about handling of failure.
Strawpoll discussions:
Alan (HP) commented.
John Barr commented that what is required for TVWS is out of scope. Eldad:
Strawpoll #1: did not run.
Strawpoll #2: 5 yes, 9 no, 23 abstain.
Al Petrick (Al Petrick & Assoc) commented that this deserves further consideration.
11/0070 presented by Solomon
Eldad made an editorial comment about “containing this SP is transmitted”. Eldad will consult Adrian about the proper editorial change since the group was not able to come to a conclusion.
No further questions.
11/0072r0 presented by James (MediaTek)
Kato (NICT) asked what the throughput reduction is by allowing MCS0. James: it is already allowed in general, the 2st 2 changes only apply to corner cases.
Kato questioned the impact of the deleted requirements. James: the proposed deletions only affect A-MPDU.
11/0079r0 presented by Carlos on Clause 10 (MLME) changes
No questions.
Will place this on the motion list for tomorrow.
For tomorrow’s PM1 session, we will start with review of changes made to contributions already presented.
Minutes of TGad session – Tuesday January18th, 13:30 – 15:30
Eldad called session into order.
Modified agenda to include CWPAN discussion on Thursday PM1 session. Also fixed typo in Thursday PM1 session.
Discussion of text for possible motions for this and the next session.
Discussion about text for possible Motion 31:
For 11/0071-02, move to next session to fully meet the 4-hour rule.
For 11/1456-01, Solomon received no additional comments.
For 11/0078-01, no further changes.
For 11/0070-01. Solomon said that he had offline discussions with John Barr but decided to reject the change. This will be removed from the motion to allow additional discussions.
For 11/0072-00, no further changes.
For 11/0079-00, no further changes.
Motion#31: moved/second by Sai/Assaf. Motion passed unanimously.
11/0144r0 presented by Sai (Tensorcom)
CID#203: decided to leave Open since the group did not reach consensus.
CID#204: updated resolution text. Keeping resolution to Reject.
CID#1037: change resolution from Accept to Reject since the baseline spec already uses the same definition for “Awake”.
CID#1038: Accept. Discussion between Sai, Naveen (Nokia), and Carlos crafting the replacement text.
CID#213: add reference to CID#1038.
CID#228: Reject. Change referenced CID from 225 to 227.
CID#238: Change to Open. Brian will submit a separate submission to resolve this.
CID#240: Discussion between Sai, Brian, Naveen, and Carlos. Change to Open.
CID#242: Accept with modified text.
CID#249: Accept with modified text.
Recess until the next session.
Minutes of TGad session – Tuesday January18th, 16:00 – 18:00
Eldad called session into order.
Presentation 11/0070r1
Some of the points were missed by John Barr. For example difference between existing pseudo static and non-pseudo static SP. Adrian will independently look into this. For now because of the absence of better text proposal Solomon’s original text is maintained until the next meeting.
Presentation 11/0071r2
No discussion.
Motion to approve comment resolutions:
-CID 125 in 11/0071r2
-CID 177 in 11/0070r1
Move/second: Assaf/James
Motion passed unanimously.
Presentation 11/0109r0
Discussion on antenna definition. John asked if where “antenna” is in the text if it changes to “Dantenna”. Assaf responded that “antenna weight” and “sectorantenna” are not changing, for example.
Presentation 11/0118r1
Issue 1: Discussion on TX time. Based on Solomon’s comments, instead of “0,SC” and “0,OFDM” it becomes “0 and SC” and “0 and OFDM”.
Below the formula on pg 2 instructions to the editor were changed. “TGad Editor: replace 20 in the above formula…”. Assaf also proposed to fix aTdata definition. “TGad Editor: replace the Tdata definition for SC with (512xNblk+64)xTc”
Issue 2: Scrambler inconsistency.
Text was slightly modified (“bits”)
No discussions on Issues 3,4 and 5.
Presentation 11/0124
No discussions or changes to the document.
Presentation 11/0080
Comment resolutions. No changes.
Minutes of TGad session – Tuesday January18th, 19:30 – 21:30
Carlos presenting comment resolutions:
CID#544: Agree
CID#640: Disagree
CID#982: Agree (duplicate of 981)
CID#445: Disagree
CID#342: Agree in Principle
CID#366: Agree in principle
CID#367: Agree in principle
CID#368: Agree
CID#370: Agree
CID#369: Agree in Principle
CID#371: Agree
CID#364: Disagree
CID#599: Disagree
CID#1066: Agree in Principle
CID#377: Agree in Principle, modified resolution
CID#1067: Agree
CID#379: Agree
CID#1068: Agree in Principle
CID#393: Agree in Principle
CID#645: Agree in Principle, modified resolution
CID#1070: Agree in Principle, modified resolution
CID#1071: Agree
CID#646: Disagree
CID#151: Agree
CID#407: Agree
CID#408: Disagree
CID#1164: Agree
CID#631: Agree
CID#44: Agree in Principle, modified resolution
CID#560: Disagree
CID#561: Disagree
CID#562: Disagree
Minutes of TGad session – Wednesday January19th, 16:00 – 18:00
Eldad called the session into order.
Continue with comment resolution.
Document 11/0118r3 presented by Assaf (Intel)
Presented updates based on earlier discussion. No further discussions.
Motion #33:
Remove CID#432 from the original list of resolved CIDs per request by Sai.
Move/Second: Assaf/James. Motion approved unanimously.
Document 11/0143r1 presented by Assaf
CID#507: presented updates. No questions.
CID#1095: described updates. modified ‘frame’ to ‘packet.
Will update document to r2 and motion tomorrow.
Document 11/0167r2 presented by Daniel Borges (Apple)
Presented updates, including editorial change of replacing ‘mmWave’ with ‘DBand’.
Solomon asks if the submission covers new mib variables presented this LA meeting? Daniel: no. Carlos: no new mib variables have been proposed in this meeting. Daniel will check if new variables need to be defined.
No additional questions. Will be added to the list of motions tomorrow.
Document 11/1220r14 presented by Carlos
Additional proposed resolutions for comments
CID#607:
CID#132: propose to disagree.
CID#555: propose to disagree. Solomon commented that waiting for TGmb/TGv to address this issue may take too long. Eldad explained that a ‘Disagree’ resolution means the CID is closed but it is still on the table since it is part of a No vote.
CID#1115: propose to agree.
CID#21: propose to disagree.
CID#22: propose to agree in principle.
CID#143 and #144: propose to disagree for similar reasons.
CID#147: propose to disagree.
CID#980: propose to agree in principle.
CID#985, #986: propose to agree.
CID#467: propose to agree in principle.
CID#468: agree in principle but will only remove colors.
CID#469: propose to disagree.
CID#988: propose to agree in principle.
CID#989: propose to agree.
CID#470: agree and refers to resolution for CID#990.
CID#987, #992, #994: propose to agree.
CID#996: propose to agree. Solomon asked for some clarifications Will leave CID open instead..
CID#997, #998: propose to agree.
CID#999: propose to disagree. References to CID#475.
CID#448: propose to disagree.
CID#1012: propose to disagree because pseudo-code need not include the details equested by the commenter.
CID#281: propose to disagree.
CID#193: propose to disagree.
CID#1065: propose to agree. Reference to CID#370.
CID#398: propose to agree in principle. Reference to CID#387, which has been motioned and included into D1.1.
Changes will be updated to r15.
Document 11/0144r2 by Sai
CID#432: updated resolution.
Finished with all scheduled presentations on the agenda.
Reviewing TGad agenda for the week. No objection to cancel Thursday PM1 session.
Recess until Thursday AM1.
Minutes of TGad session – Thursday January20th, 08:00 – 10:00
Eldad called session into order.
Agenda:
CWPAN presentation 11/0173r0
Motion on comment resolution
Motion on Draft 1.1
Planning for March 2011
Conference calls
Comment resolution
Presentation 11/0173r0:
Presentation on China 40-50GHz spectrum possibilities. Call for industry support.
Ling: One of the difficulties is that importing 40-50GHz instruments into China is not easy.
Document 11/0083r5:
Motion 34 on resolved comments
comment 555 removed, Carlos to address again
Motion passed unanimously
Motion on Draft 1.1
John Barr: what are the implications of this?
Eldad: Further LB comments will be based on D1.1
Motion passed unanimously
Goals for March:
Complete comment resolution on D1.1
Carlos: 100 comments left
Approve D2.0
Start recirculation Ballot on 2.0
Joint meeting between 802.11/CWPAN on Saturday after the IEEE meeting
Conference call times presented on slide 49.
No objections.
Comment resolution (Carlos):
CID#555: Solomon noted that there may be a problem wit FST. Carlos responded that this information will not be used. Solomon: nothing wrong to provide information. Eldad: seems like adding IE. Solomon/Carlos: Leave it as is for now. Motion in March. Resolution was “agree in principle".
CID#493: Agree in Principle
CID#275: Disagree
CID#1001: Agree in Principle
CID#622: Disagree
CID#443: Disagree. John Barr: move to the editor? Eldad: this was done many times before.
End of session.
Minutes of TGad session – Thursday January20th, 13:30 – 15:30
Session Cancelled
Submissionpage 1James Yee, MediaTekMotorola, Inc.