21-10-0001-00-0000

Project / IEEE 802.21 Media Independent Handover Services Working Group
Title / Minutes of November 2009 802.21b TG Meeting
Date submitted / 2010-01-06
Source(s) / Juan Carlos Zúñiga
InterDigital Communications, LLC / Contact
Info /
Abstract / IEEE 802.21b meeting minutes
Purpose / To record the minutes of the IEEE 802.21b Task Group meeting
IEEE 802.21 session #35 in Atlanta, GA
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Patent Policy and Procedures / The contributor is familiar with the IEEE-SA Patent Policy and Procedures:
http://standards.ieee.org/guides/bylaws/sect6-7.html#6> and <http://standards.ieee.org/guides/opman/sect6.html#6.3>.
Further information is located at <http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-material.html
and <http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat>.

Minutes of 802.21b TG Meeting

Session #35, Atlanta, GA

IEEE 802.21b Task Group on MIH Broadcast Services

If you see errors or omissions in these minutes please contact Juan Carlos Zuniga at

All meeting documents should be posted to https://mentor.ieee.org/802.21/

AGENDA

Tuesday, November 17th, 2009

10:30am-12:30pm

·  Broadcast TG Meeting Called to Order Juan Carlos Zuniga 10:30am

·  Agenda for September 2009 Meeting Juan Carlos Zuniga 10:32am

·  Opening Note Juan Carlos Zuniga 10:35am

·  21-09-0112-01 802.21b Proposal Guidelines (review) Juan Carlos Zuniga 10:40am

·  21-09-0143-01 802.21b Proposal Hongseok Jeon 11:00am

·  Recess 12:30pm

Tuesday, November 17th, 2009

1:30pm-3:30pm

·  Meeting called to order Juan Carlos Zuniga 1:30pm

·  21-09-0141-01 802.21b Proposal Catherine Livet 1:35pm

·  Group’s next steps Juan Carlos Zuniga 3:00pm

·  Closing Note Juan Carlos Zuniga 3:25pm

·  Adjourn 3:30pm

MINUTES

1.00 / MEETING CALLED TO ORDER

The meeting was called to order on November 17th by Juan Carlos Zuniga at 10:35am

2.00 / AGENDA

Document 21-09-0176-00-bcst, Broadcast Services TG Meeting Agenda was revised and approved by the group by unanimous consent

3.00 / REVIEW IEEE PATENT POLICY

Juan Carlos Zuniga asked if patent slides and policy was known by participants, but not read/reviewed word for word.

o  IEEE patent policy available at the following location: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf

4.00 / PROPOSAL GUIDELINES

Juan Carlos Zuniga reminded the group of document 21-09-0112-01 802.21b Proposal Guidelines

Burak Simsek: Can we accept new proposals in March?

JCZ: The current guidelines do not allow new proposals in March. We can always change the guidelines with a 50% group support, but I would rather encourage contributing to an existing proposal and helping harmonization of proposals

5.00 / TGb PROPOSAL PRESENTATION 1

• Hongseok Jeon presented document 21-09-143-01 TGb proposal

Catherine Livet: In deployment scenario in slides 11-12, are you suggesting these interfaces be made with MIH? How do you trigger from the MN side?

HJ: Our proposal only suggest triggers from Ntwk

Johannes: Q about use cases, for the cases where you suggest a group handovers, this requires that the vast majority of mobiles have DO technology. What happens if some of the group members do not support DO technology?

CL: You can still do load balancing

Antonio de la Oliva: Can you do this even if you are talking about multicast?

Johannes: Yes, because perhaps one cell would be completely freed from service

AO: can we move the remaining users to a single cell?

Burak: Use cases should come from usual operators (broadcast), not mobile operators. It needs to come from the broadcaster and also we have to consider the type of technology. This Use Case came from TDF

AO: How can you address this message to the group? Are you going to use multicast addresses?

HJ: We will use a multicast stream

Antonio: Also, if you don’t get a response, how can you know if the HO happened?

JCZ: In slides 11, etc. Are you suggesting using RP4/RP5 to connect the MIH PoS to the BCAST server?

Please provide interfaces together with messages to understand the triggers

VG: Can someone explain the real handover? How do you transfer a TV session if there are no IP addresses?

Burak: There are IP addresses.

VG: What is the use case

BS: The technology can improve interruption time

VG: We need to know this interruption times currently

BS: Teodor can provide answers. It is probably around 500 ms

JC: But PDP context takes longer than that?

BS: I will find it

Subir: Did you consider the multicast join time?

BS: Will also find it

VG: is this what 3gpp is doing?

BS: Nokia phone does it at application layer

JC: OMA BCAST provides service in the other network, but the trigger is up to the MN

VG: We need an overall picture, Stage-2 type of picture to show the overall implementation

JC: Encourage people to come up with this representation for the next round of proposals

SD: UE process would also be important

6.00 / RECESS

Meeting was recessed by Juan Carlos Zuniga at 11:45am

7.00 / MEETING CALLED TO ORDER

The meeting was called to order again on November 17th by Juan Carlos Zuniga at 1:40pm

8.00 / TGb PROPOSAL PRESENTATION 2

• Catherine Livet, presented document 21-09-141-01 TGb proposal

BS: Is it true that multicast address in the baseline specification can only be used for discovery?

JC: Yes, we had this debate in the FMCA and most people had that understanding (spec is ambiguous). It would be good to improve the text in the baseline spec.

BS: Can’t you specify the link direction simply by specifying the link type? E.g. DVB-H type is always DO

CL: Yes

Slide 16

AO: Can you really do this in 21? This is over L3 and outside the realm of 21!

CL: We provide the trigger

AO: regarding link id, you can also use link tuple and provide an implicit link direction

CL: agree

JCZ: Slide 12 IP address of what?

BS: IP = stream

Slide 14 blue=primitives? Does push trigger also NetHOCommit? – Not standard function

CL: Agree, will correct

HJ: Who maintains a multicast address?

CL: Service management

HJ: How do you join?

CL: will provide an answer later

BS: Who triggers the link indication?

CL: The idea is to show that some parameters are needed in this primitive

AO: Who is the PoS?

CL: The MIH server

9.00 / CLOSING REMARKS

Juan Carlos Zuniga reminded the group that proposals for the oncoming January meeting were requested to include detailed text together with the presentation document, and current proposers were encouraged to take the feedback from the group to enhance their proposals and present again in January.

10.00 / MEETING ADJOURNED

The meeting was adjourned by Juan Carlos Zuniga at 3:00pm

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