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Law 12Ms. Ripley
Kids need to understand their rights
By KATIE DAUBS Canwest News Service 2008
OTTAWA — It used to be the ticket to freedom came with a driver’s licence. But now that children take their parents to court over disciplinary decisions, it appears freedom has a new definition — one that children may not fully understand.
While it’s no surprise a father in Gatineau, Que., is appealing a court decision that reversed his daughter’s grounding, it comes as even less of a shock to academics that a 12-year-old is behind the entire affair.
Michele Peterson-Badali, a psychologist who specializes in children’s rights at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, says preteens are more aggressive about their rights because they don’t fully understand them.
“Younger kids tend to think about rights in a more unbounded, unlimited way,” she said.
In the Gastineau case, a 12-year-old girl took her father to Quebec Superior Court after he said she couldn’t go on a school trip for disobeying his orders to stay off the Internet. When the father wouldn’t sign the release form for the trip, the child went to live with her mother, who encouraged the legal action that culminated in last week’s ruling.
Peterson-Badali, who has surveyed children about their perceptions of rights, said 12-year-olds are the biggest supporters of self determination among all childhood age groups.
When given scenarios and asked if rights should apply, she said teenagers had a better understanding of responsibilities that come with rights and were less likely to have a catch-all approach. For many 12-year-olds, that kind of experiential maturity is not in the picture.
“I don’t like to think of that as a reason why kids shouldn’t have rights,” she cautioned.
Ron Stewart, a clinical social worker with the Family Therapy Associates in Ottawa, said the “school yard union” is one of the most influential part of a child’s education.
“Children learn from other children that they have right to safety, security, and what kind of discipline should be used,” he said.
He noted that access to the Children’s Aid Society is something a child may feel he or she has, and is often invoked as a threat.
“Their job, developmentally, is to always press the envelope a bit, and it’s the parents job to evaluate each push, and sometimes give in and not give in,” he said. “When we turn it all over to the kids, they don’t have the maturity to make these kinds of decisions about situations like the one we read about in the paper.”
And while the Gastineau decision may seem like child’s play, Stewart says there are a lot of 12-year olds making some pretty heavy decisions. And in recent years, he’s seen the age of these children drop from 16 to 14 to 12 in the case law.
“Often, kids are told by a parent, you’ve got to put up with your dad now, but when you’re 12 you can’t make that decision.
“On one hand, you’re saying to kid, ‘We think you’re old and mature enough,’ and on the other hand a child is still a child. This decision will affect them for rest of their lives.”
Lise Parent, who has represented children through Ontario’s provincially funded Office of the Children’s Lawyer, said many children expect the justice system will give them whatever they want.
“Fundamentally, kids are going to be selfish. They want things now and they want them to be the way they want them,” she said.
In Ontario, if a child wants to be represented in court, he or she has to have a litigation guardian with no personal interest in the outcome of the decision.
“But it’s up to the lawyer to explain to the child that it might not go the way they think it will go,” she said. “Their testimony is just one of the factors that a court looks at to make a decision. That’s sometimes surprising to kids.”
Another thing that’s surprising is the way this litigation has changed the childhood experience.
Antoinette Gagne, a professor who specializes in teacher preparation at the Ontario Institute For Studies in Education, said although teachers have always studied legal aspects of the classroom, they have taken on a new importance.
“It’s not enough to simply explain to a teacher-candidate that they are responsible for children as if they are the parent. They really need to understand some of the subtleties and value systems, especially in this multicultural society.”
In this case, father really does know best
A Gastineau judge’s bizarre attempt to undermine a father’s authority sends a frightening message to all parents: When it comes to raising children, the state knows best.
Madam Justice Suzanne Testier of the Quebec Superior Court sided with a 12-year-old girl who challenged, in court, her father’s decision to ground her. The girl had been living with her father — the parents are divorced — and he forbade her to attend a school trip after she disobeyed his instructions to stay off the Internet.
The girl then moved in with her mother, who was willing to let her go on the trip — but the school required that both parents give permission, so the daughter took her father to court.
What happened next — Justice Tessier’s overruling the father — has been described as such an aberrant decision that other courts are unlikely to follow its lead. Even so, the decision carries symbolic weight and parents are right to wonder what the implications are.
The case is somewhat muddied by the fact that the girl’s divorced parents disagreed over the proper punishment. In this sense, the case is not simply one of a child seeking court intervention against parental authority. In the end, though, that is just what Justice Tessier did when she took it upon herself to pronounce on the merits of grounding.
If anything, the father’s behaviour appears to be right out of a good parenting manual: He repeatedly warned his daughter to stop behaviour that he found inappropriate and told her there would be consequences if she continued. She did, and he followed through on his warning.
This was hardly an instance of cruel or arbitrary authority. There was no abuse involved, not even close. The father, it seems, used clear and consistent warnings, letting his child know that there would be consequences for inappropriate behaviour. This is how you raise responsible children who understand the results of their actions. It is an approach to discipline that should be encouraged, not outlawed by the state.
The alternative — corporal punishment — has traditionally been used by parents who, out of frustration, can think of no other way to exercise authority over their children. Coincidentally, the so-called anti-spanking law passed through the Senate this week, representing a growing consensus that hitting children is unacceptable.
But an absurd court decision like the one in Gatineau is enough to make parents ask: What’s left?
Comments are now closed for this story
Dina, Ontario
One question: where did the girl get the money to take her dad to court?
It seems to me that parents these days are being bullied by their childern. This is a result of too much power we provide the kids these days.
dan
I think the judge had no judgement the kid is only 12!!!!! the father did the right thing.
Sean
What a waste of money. The child is a juvenile. It is the parents that make the rules. It seems to me that the father could have simply not signed the liability waiver or parental consent form to stop the trip from happening.
Kevin
what is this world coming to when a parent has to go to court, to defend grounding their children ?
bruce nicolson
This is a clear case of excessive judicial intrusion into our private lives.There was no harm to the child and therefore no one,s business but the families.Canada better wakeup to what is going on in our judicial system.We cannot allow non elected judges to set social policy or any other policies that belong in political arenas!
Dale Lapointe
This kind of stupidity is a large part of why there are so many problems with the family unit. This little girl is a child not an adult and needs to have some sort of structure. This sort of anal retentive thinking just means that whoever made this decision needs to do a little growing up too. How can any adult that has a childs best interest in mind even contemplate such an idiotic decision. I am a father and I know what it takes to raise a child. It's difficult enough without the courts trying to hand cuff the parents.
Ken Poulton
This is rediculous!!! I stand behind the father 100%. This will open the door to all kinds of misbehaviour of children able to do anything they want because they know nothing will be done to stop them. Anyone who watched Bowling for Columbine can see the same thing happening here, and has already happened as there is no discipline in the household anymore.
Chris
This is ridiculous. The courts have no place in the day to day disciplining of our children. The court has totally undermined this parent and all parents authority with their teenagers. Hopefully with the appeal the court will come to its senses.
Chris
Are you kidding me?? Does the judge not have an ounce of common sense? It's these kinds of things that are becoming the downfall of that generation. When a kid can take their parents to court over a punishment, and the judge rules in favour of the kid...parents are lost. Thank God kids nowadays don't read the news and can't see what dangerous and stupid precedent this has set.
Grace
The fact that the judge ruled against the father for doling out punishment to his daughter is beyond ridiculous. Children these days don't know right from wrong. Too often parents baby their children when in all reality they should be giving them a well placed spank to smarten them up. Legislation should protect children from abuse, this is true, but it should not be in place against parents who are trying to raise and teach their children good values and morals in order to be good citizens in the future. What this court has done is tell parents they have no rights. This action will only serve to allow children to get away with just about anything and then blame on the parents who try to raise them properly for bad behaviour. Amazing isn't it?
Sean
This is by far the most pathetic, waste of tax payers money I have ever read. To believe that a Quebec court actually heard this case makes me speechless. The court system should not get involved with such petty cases.
Donnah McIntosh
This is absolutely ridiculous. Makes one wonder if that judge has ever dealt with a 12 yr old. Now is the time to nip rebelious behavior and this is the worst thing that could happen as it gives the girl aurthority, and no 12 year old should have authority over a parent.
Paul
....this is just sad. The state has no business in personal affairs like this. Police state is just down the road.
Tim
WOW ...Did the court give the 12 yr old back internet access also ?
It's no wonder parents are having a hard time with raising kid's. I think the court system should pay for the raising of the child to.
Can't wait till my employer tells I can't have a day off.
I'M GOING TO COURT !!
K. Miller
What is this Country coming to when a 12 year old child can take there parents to court over a punishment and win. I am so disgusted, people wonder why kids now a days are so bad, here is you answer in a nut shell.
DISAGREE MOM
OMG That is crazy, that will be the day "a judge" tells me I can't punish my kids. I could see if they were in a bad living arrangement or something....The girl can go live with the mother than, I wouldn't be playing those games....it's just to crazy, I'm lost for words. The father must be still in shock!!
doug zwicker
As a parent this is a complete joke. Has anyone ever thought about the rise in youth crime due to the lack of discipline. Schools can't punish and neither can parents, even the courts can't punish anyone till their 18. As a parent we need this to stop before there is nothing we can do.
Kim
UNBELEIVABLE: What is the world coming to..we punish our children the way we see fit in order to hopefully bring them up properly to face the challenges in this world, and we have judges who overrule our decisions and means of punishment; how sad is this; The judge that made that decision should be ashamed!!!I truly believe the reason for these kind of decisions by the courts are why we are seeing more violence!! That young lady is laughing all them way home, and now has set a precedence for the rest of her peers; I truly feel for the father and I stand by what he has done.
Phil VT
Absolutely brutal! How did this case even make it before the courts?!? If this ruling is allowed to stand there will be a lineup of rebellious, poorly raised children taking their parents to court. Someone needs to remind this obviously feminist judge that we are not living in a socialist state!
Mike
This is just another example of how kids now run the home, family or any authority.
Concerned Parent
This is another example of why this country needs to have elected judges. The current judiciary has little or no respect for the public. They make their decision on a 'rationale' only found in law schools, not real life. Courts are directly responsible for the erosion of parental authority and the Canadian family. Activist judges that determine how children are raised (spanking restrictions, not banning school trips) will be seeing these same children in several years time- in criminal court as their unruly behaviour becomes societies problem. And the judicial/prison system.
Mike
What a ridiculous use of the court system. I think the legal system is getting further and further away from the real life.
Terri
Unbelievable!! What is this world coming to when you can't even discipline your own child. The court is no place for this issue, however, there is always some lawyer looking for his/her 2 minutes of fame. Would it have been better to allow her to continue to chat and post pictures on the internet and expose herself to all the pedophiles out there???
If only more parents stood up to their children in the way this father did, the world would be a better place.
Good luck to dad in getting his authority back!!